Mi-28 vs. Apache AH-64

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posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 01:41 PM
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Apache AH-64 and the Mi-28 are the two helicopters that compete head to head. Both of these helicopters are attack helicopters.

Which of these will have the edge to win a battle?



Mi-28 Havoc Specifications

Primary Function: Attack helicopter

Contractor: Mil

Crew: Two - pilot (rear) and a navigator/weapons operator (front)

Unit Cost: N/A

Powerplant
Two 2070shp (1545kW) Klimov TV3-117VM turboshafts driving a five blade main rotor and four blade tail rotor

Dimensions
Fuselage Length: 55 ft, 9 in (17.01 m)
Rotor Diameter: 56 ft, 5 in (17.2 m)
Height: 12 ft, 7 in (3.82 m)

Weights
Empty: 17,845lb (8095kg) -- equipped
Maximum Takeoff: 25,705lb (11,660kg)

Performance
Speed: 162kt (300km/h / 184.8 mph)
Ceiling: 19,020ft
Range: 595nm (1100km) -- (w/ reserves)

Armament
One 30 mm NPPU-28 cannon
SA-16 Gimlet AAMs
AT-6 Spiral AT missiles
130 mm or 80 mm rockets



AH-64A Specifications:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Length: 58.17 ft (17.73 m)

Height: 15.24 ft (4.64 m)

Wing Span (weapon platform): 17.15 ft (5.227 m)

Rotor Span: 48.00 ft (14.63 m)

Primary Mission Gross

Weight:
15,075 lb (6838 kg) Standard Day

Hover In-Ground Effect
(MRP) 15,895 ft (4845 m) 14,845 ft (4525 m)
Hover Out-of-Ground Effect (MRP) 12,685 ft (3866 m) 11,215 ft (3418 m)


Vertical Rate of Climb
(MRP) 2,175 fpm (663 mpm) 2,050 fpm (625 mpm)
Maximum Rate of Climb
(IRP) 2,915 fpm (889 mpm) 2,890 fpm (881 mpm)
Maximum Level Flight Speed 150 kt (279 kph) 153 kt (284 kph)

Cruise Speed
(MCP) 150 kt (279 kph) 153 kt (284 kph)

Armament consists of: Hellfire II Missile System
Hydra 70 Rocket System
M230 30mm Chain Gun




[Edited on 13-11-2003 by Russian]




posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 02:16 PM
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I'd have to say Mi-28. It is better armed, and fast. But the AH-64A seems more manueverable.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 02:25 PM
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These two aircraft/helicopters are built to serve different functions and capacities within each's respective nations.....

Russian?
"Head-to-head" means what?
* Contracts
* Actual fight: each against the other?
*What?



regards
seekerof



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
These two aircraft/helicopters are built to serve different functions and capacities within each's respective nations.....

Russian?
"Head-to-head" means what?
* Contracts
* Actual fight: each against the other?
*What?



regards
seekerof



These to helicopters do the same things but for two different countries.

Also "head to head" means head to head in everything.

For example which will be better in missions
Which has more ammo.
Better ammo.
etc.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:49 PM
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Thanks for the clarification Russian....
I promise I will get back to this tomorrow sometime....
Very tired and am going to bed, again, thank you for the clarification....I was in a hurry the first time I saw and read this and 'if' I had taken more time to read it a bit more carefully, I would have probably discerned what you were asking....my apologies.
I shall return...promise.

Nite'


regards
seekerof



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:51 PM
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I will forgive you only if you make a good contrabution to this post.
Post your thoughts or find some info.



posted on Nov, 14 2003 @ 06:05 AM
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Mi-28A/N is more protected then the apache, Mi-28A/N got ejection seats, and it has a new design of all plastic rotor blades, which can sustain hits from 30mm shells it also can carry 3 more troops or supplies, it also features shielding of vital components by less important ones;
main and tail rotors blades are made of super-strong composites free from secondary destruction effect;
duplicated hydraulic and control systems;
engine separation;
armoured pilot's cockpit is fitted with ceramic armoured fuselage, bullet-proof windshields and armoured partition between crew members;
self-sealing polyurethane foam-filled fuel tanks;
unique fuel system operating in depression conditions preventing explosion, ignition and leakage.

Mi-28A/N Havoc Attack Helicopter can fly at a maximum speed of 324 km/hour , can fly rearwards and sideways at speeds up to 100km/h, and is able to hover turn at 45 per second.
Range of flight at normal take-off weight 460 km
Ferry range with drop tanks attached 1,105 km
compared to the longbow apache
400 kilometres on internal fuel
1,900 kilometres on internal and external fuel
260 kilometres per hour
it also carries more AA missiles (8 Igla-V) compared to 4 of the apache, the mi-28 uses Ataka and also can use Vikhr-m missiles which are comparable to the hellfire with their 10,000m+ range and penetration, and they are also can be used as AA missiles.





[Edited on 14-11-2003 by SectorGaza]

[Edited on 14-11-2003 by SectorGaza]



posted on Nov, 14 2003 @ 10:26 PM
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Russian.....
First off.......the AH-64A Apache is #nick to this: An AH-64D Apache Longbow!


Just a few reasons why its #nick? Here:
* "is 4 times as lethal (hitting more targets) than the AH-64A, the most capable and advanced armed helicopter in the world until Apache Longbow entered service
* is 7 times as survivable than the AH-64A
* meets or exceeds U.S. Army requirements for both target engagement range and for probability of acquiring a selected target (specific requirements and results are classified)
* can easily detect and engage moving and stationary targets on an obscured battlefield at maximum range when optical systems are rendered ineffective
* can use multiple sensors either individually or in concert with one another to detect and engage targets which dramatically increases mission area flexibility
* has the ability to initiate the radar scan, detect and classify more than 128 targets, prioritize the 16 most dangerous targets, transmit the information to other aircraft, and initiate a precision fire and forget attack all in less than a minute
* requires one third less maintenance man-hours (3.4) per flight hour than the military requirement.


And per this site:

* "Are 400 percent more lethal (hitting more targets) than the AH-64A, already the most capable and advanced armed helicopter in the world to enter service.
* Are 720 percent more survivable than the AH-64A.
* Meet or exceed Army requirements for both target engagement range and for probability of acquiring a seleted target. The specific requirements and results are classified.
* Easily can hit moving and stationary tanks on an obscured, dirty battlefield from a range of more than 7 kilometers, when optical systems are rendered ineffective.
* Can use either its Target Acquisition Designation Sight or fire control radar as a targeting sight, offering increased battlefield flexibility.
* Have the ability to initiate the radar scan, detect and classify more than 128 targets, prioritize the 16 most dangerous targets, transmit the information to other aircraft, and initiate a precision attack -- all in 30 seconds or less.
* Require one third less maintenance man hours (3.4) per flight hour than the requirement.
* Are able to fly 91 percent of the time -- 11 percent more than the requirement."



"Boeings AH-64 Apache"
Link:
www.boeing.com...

"AH-64D Longbow"
Link:
www.globalsecurity.org...

"AH-64A/D APACHE ATTACK HELICOPTER, USA"
Link:
www.army-technology.com...


Speed is no significance to me...they both are very agile and maneuverable. The Mi-28A/N holds a slight advantage here.

The Mi-28A/N can carry how many A2A missiles?

Oh, boy....for a battlefield attack GROUND SUPPORT helicopter...thats a MUST HAVE right?

Please.....
I'll take the ability to carry 16 Hellfire Missiles if you will...thank you! On top of that...the abiltiy to carry the Thermobaric Hellfire Missiles....nuff said.
Oh...and a range of 8-12 km........
Link:
www.globalsecurity.org...

The Longbow is my choice.......I don't need no stinking helicopter that has the best stats in everything....I need one that is battle proven and deadly.

But to be perfectly fair and honest.....they are both exceptional effective killing machines and would make any nation brim with pride to have them annihilating anything and everything.



regards
seekerof



posted on Nov, 15 2003 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Russian.....
First off.......the AH-64A Apache is #nick to this: An AH-64D Apache Longbow!


Just a few reasons why its #nick? Here:
* "is 4 times as lethal (hitting more targets) than the AH-64A, the most capable and advanced armed helicopter in the world until Apache Longbow entered service
* is 7 times as survivable than the AH-64A
* meets or exceeds U.S. Army requirements for both target engagement range and for probability of acquiring a selected target (specific requirements and results are classified)
* can easily detect and engage moving and stationary targets on an obscured battlefield at maximum range when optical systems are rendered ineffective
* can use multiple sensors either individually or in concert with one another to detect and engage targets which dramatically increases mission area flexibility
* has the ability to initiate the radar scan, detect and classify more than 128 targets, prioritize the 16 most dangerous targets, transmit the information to other aircraft, and initiate a precision fire and forget attack all in less than a minute
* requires one third less maintenance man-hours (3.4) per flight hour than the military requirement.


And per this site:

* "Are 400 percent more lethal (hitting more targets) than the AH-64A, already the most capable and advanced armed helicopter in the world to enter service.
* Are 720 percent more survivable than the AH-64A.
* Meet or exceed Army requirements for both target engagement range and for probability of acquiring a seleted target. The specific requirements and results are classified.
* Easily can hit moving and stationary tanks on an obscured, dirty battlefield from a range of more than 7 kilometers, when optical systems are rendered ineffective.
* Can use either its Target Acquisition Designation Sight or fire control radar as a targeting sight, offering increased battlefield flexibility.
* Have the ability to initiate the radar scan, detect and classify more than 128 targets, prioritize the 16 most dangerous targets, transmit the information to other aircraft, and initiate a precision attack -- all in 30 seconds or less.
* Require one third less maintenance man hours (3.4) per flight hour than the requirement.
* Are able to fly 91 percent of the time -- 11 percent more than the requirement."



"Boeings AH-64 Apache"
Link:
www.boeing.com...

"AH-64D Longbow"
Link:
www.globalsecurity.org...

"AH-64A/D APACHE ATTACK HELICOPTER, USA"
Link:
www.army-technology.com...


Speed is no significance to me...they both are very agile and maneuverable. The Mi-28A/N holds a slight advantage here.

The Mi-28A/N can carry how many A2A missiles?

Oh, boy....for a battlefield attack GROUND SUPPORT helicopter...thats a MUST HAVE right?

Please.....
I'll take the ability to carry 16 Hellfire Missiles if you will...thank you! On top of that...the abiltiy to carry the Thermobaric Hellfire Missiles....nuff said.
Oh...and a range of 8-12 km........
Link:
www.globalsecurity.org...

The Longbow is my choice.......I don't need no stinking helicopter that has the best stats in everything....I need one that is battle proven and deadly.

But to be perfectly fair and honest.....they are both exceptional effective killing machines and would make any nation brim with pride to have them annihilating anything and everything.



regards
seekerof


Sorry seekerof
. I should have cleared it up.

I ment Mi-28 vs Apache AH-64A

Sorry people.


Ok so who would be the better?



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 01:50 PM
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Well with all the new peole here...

What do you people think of these two helicopters?

which is better and WHY?



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 01:55 PM
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I think the Russian copter is a direct rip off of the Apache.

Since it likely has inferior electronics and weapons then the idea was to make it as difficult to shoot it down as possible hopefully giving it a chance for one good strike against any american offering going up against it.

Next subject.



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by THENEO
I think the Russian copter is a direct rip off of the Apache.

Since it likely has inferior electronics and weapons then the idea was to make it as difficult to shoot it down as possible hopefully giving it a chance for one good strike against any american offering going up against it.

Next subject.



ALL OF THIS YOU THINK But you dont KNOW anything for #!!!

Please research before posting your ANTI-RUSSIAN VEIWS!!!!



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 03:27 PM
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IGNORE HIM.

Neo nuked Hiroshima with B-52s..

In a another post here in aircraft projects forum..



Link!



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 05:28 PM
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I know the Apache, but have never heard of the Mi-28. What ever happened to the Hind's? How does the 28 compare to those?

For my two cents worth... if these Mi-28's compare well to the Hind's (or even surpass), then there is only one obvious answer to the better helicopter...

(and it isn;t the Apache... geez, it couldn't even handle the sand from the fist Gulf War! And yes, I was there, I know...)



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 05:47 PM
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Hmm..another USA vs Russia thread there eh Russian?


Now then, the Russian counter-part seems impressive, very indeed. The Apache, I would have to say is more agile. The HellFire missile system is definately impressive, and those AT's are also pretty good. I dunno on this one, tough call..I would have to go with...

*drumroll pleaase!*
















Even.



-wD



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by soothsayer
I know the Apache, but have never heard of the Mi-28. What ever happened to the Hind's? How does the 28 compare to those?

For my two cents worth... if these Mi-28's compare well to the Hind's (or even surpass), then there is only one obvious answer to the better helicopter...

(and it isn;t the Apache... geez, it couldn't even handle the sand from the fist Gulf War! And yes, I was there, I know...)


thanks for the input.

also the mi-28 is better then the older mi-24!



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL
Hmm..another USA vs Russia thread there eh Russian?


Now then, the Russian counter-part seems impressive, very indeed. The Apache, I would have to say is more agile. The HellFire missile system is definately impressive, and those AT's are also pretty good. I dunno on this one, tough call..I would have to go with...

*drumroll pleaase!*

-wD
:

no this is NOT another Russian vs. USA thread.

it is just US and Russia have good things on both sides that compete really good.


and also know that you will go with the Mi-28!!!
















up:



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 06:17 PM
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Yeah..OK..fine...the Mi-28 is better


lol to that though, not another Russia vs USA thread...suuuuuure...



-wD



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 06:27 PM
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The choice is not simple in this thread......

the AH-64 Longbow has far better tech....thats why I would have to bet on it


but I am going to say the MI-28 is still one of the best.

why you ask....I know it isnt the sexiest thing around, but it is cheaper...more able to be mass produced and generally more practically equiped.
And it has good armor and a lot of it.

but once again.....it depends on the pilot and the name of the country that is printed on the side......

lets just hope that we wont find out for sure for a long long long time.



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by omega1
The choice is not simple in this thread......

the AH-64 Longbow has far better tech....thats why I would have to bet on it


but I am going to say the MI-28 is still one of the best.

why you ask....I know it isnt the sexiest thing around, but it is cheaper...more able to be mass produced and generally more practically equiped.
And it has good armor and a lot of it.

but once again.....it depends on the pilot and the name of the country that is printed on the side......

lets just hope that we wont find out for sure for a long long long time.



I know the Apache, but have never heard of the Mi-28. What ever happened to the Hind's? How does the 28 compare to those?

For my two cents worth... if these Mi-28's compare well to the Hind's (or even surpass), then there is only one obvious answer to the better helicopter...

(and it isn;t the Apache... geez, it couldn't even handle the sand from the fist Gulf War! And yes, I was there, I know...)


Read what the guy who worked with them said!





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