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Originally posted by seattlelaw
Brimstone, you certainly have the insiders information on the doings at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Very impressive summary. Generally lacking support, and yet compellingly presented. Much of what you contend is unassailable as there is no evidence presented to counter. But do tell us the source from which you conclude that 41 is now back in control of the White House?
Originally posted by seattlelaw
Brimstone, you certainly have the insiders information on the doings at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Very impressive summary. Generally lacking support, and yet compellingly presented. Much of what you contend is unassailable as there is no evidence presented to counter. But do tell us the source from which you conclude that 41 is now back in control of the White House?
How does the Democrat's landslide congressional victory translate into White House control transferring to an ex-(by 14 years) president?
The Supreme Court has defined the phrase "conspiracy to defraud the United States" as "to interfere with, impede or obstruct a lawful government function by deceit, craft or trickery, or at least by means that are dishonest." In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement "between two or more persons" to follow a course of conduct that, if completed, would constitute a crime. The agreement doesn't have to be express; most conspiracies are proved through evidence of concerted action. But government officials are expected to act in concert. So proof that they were conspiring requires a comparison of their public conduct and statements with their conduct and statements behind the scenes. A pattern of double-dealing proves a criminal conspiracy.
The concept of interfering with a lawful government function is best explained by reference to two well-known cases where courts found that executive branch officials had defrauded the United States by abusing their power for personal or political reasons.
One is the Watergate case, where a federal district court held that Nixon's Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman, and his crew had interfered with the lawful government functions of the CIA and the FBI by causing the CIA to intervene in the FBI's investigation into the burglary of Democratic Party headquarters. The other is U.S. v. North, where the court found that Reagan administration National Security Adviser John Poindexter, Poindexter's aide Oliver North, and others had interfered with Congress's lawful power to oversee foreign affairs by lying about secret arms deals during Congressional hearings into the Iran/contra scandal.
Finally, "fraud" is broadly defined to include half-truths, omissions or misrepresentation; in other words, statements that are intentionally misleading, even if literally true. Fraud also includes making statements with "reckless indifference" to their truth.
Conspiracies to defraud usually begin with a goal that is not in and of itself illegal. In this instance the goal was to invade Iraq. It is possible that the Bush team thought this goal was laudable and likely to succeed. It's also possible that they never formally agreed to defraud the public in order to attain it. But when they chose to overcome anticipated or actual opposition to their plan by concealing information and lying, they began a conspiracy to defraud -- because, as juries are instructed, "no amount of belief in the ultimate success of a scheme will justify baseless, false or reckless misstatements."
Originally posted by seattlelaw
Brimstone, you claim that the Carlyle Group - with about as much value as my neighbor Bill Gates has personally (and which does not include the cash my other neighbor is sitting on - Paul Allen) holds sway over the internal workings of the world? C'mon man, you've got to be joking. I would agree that they have influence and a great deal of it. But recall that 41 was opposed to invading Iraq when he had the troops over there. If 41 and the Carlyle Group didn't have that kind of sway with his own son (to prevent the impending debacle) what the heck kind of power do they have?
Either the Iraq invasion was desired by 41 and all his buds, which would support your thesis, or it was not which would weaken your position.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What in the world happened here, Mr. Conyers??