Chemtrail pics 11-10-06

Originally posted by StellarX
I am not sure that one can or that you have but whatever the case it most certainly did not make the trails in the sky go away so it's completely irrelevant if his lying or not.

The original article included pictures taken on the ramp of a 727. The supposed spray jets in the photos were nothing more then the standard heated masts such as the one that can be seen in this 727 photo, labeled as “HOT”:

Vortex Generators Such as in this photo:

Antennas:

The Flap Screw casings ( sorry, I don’t know their proper name,we used to call them the “watch you don’t hit your head” things ):

These are all normal parts of an aircraft and can be seen on old 707’s, thus it was apparent to anyone that has been around aircraft that the whole thing was a big joke done by a bunch of board mechanics or ramp agents.

Originally posted by StellarX
There is no such thing as a 'logical person' and by your apparent definition ( anyone who thinks differently are not thinking 'logically') we should be thankful.

Actually I bet you’re wrong. Yes, there is a minority of folks that still hang out and propagate this notion of Chemtrails, but I believe the majority understand it’s just not true. If you don’t believe me then see if you can get an admin to post a poll and we’ll get actual numbers.

Originally posted by StellarX
And as accurate as the rest of them in my opinion.

Well let’s see, someone that worked for many years in aviation at a fairly high rank, and someone with apparently no aviation experience…. Hmmmm… Yeah I can see where that makes you more accurate then me and have a far more educated understanding of the truth.

Originally posted by StellarX
Which is basically my point and certainly that does not lead to less chem trails...

Nope, but its one less place on an aircraft that they can hide the "make believe chemicals" they are supposedly spraying.

Originally posted by StellarX
You have shown what is contained in commercial Av-gas as per standards that are normally used and once again i am not sure what you think you have proved. Telling us what the standards are hardly changes what we observe and your contributing nothing in that regard.

It tells you what is in the fuel, this is helpful so that if you ever decide to take a chance and actually go in search of the truth you’ll know what to expect from lab results.

Originally posted by StellarX
It may not have changed in those flights that leaves regular contrails but how can you suggest that it's the same for the flights that leaves these massively persistent trails?

Because I have seen commercial aircraft that I have worked on leave persistent contrails. As I have been a supervisor and know what went on the aircraft, either I am part of the conspiracy or contrails, being of the same substance as clouds, can linger for as long as normal clouds can. The only reason that many contrails don’t persist is that there is less ice and water vapor in them so they dissipate faster then a cloud, but this is not always the case.

Originally posted by StellarX
You think the organization involved in this scam will sell me whatever is used to create these chem trails or that it is now sold as regular fuel everywhere in the world? Why do you think they are simply distributing whatever causes these trails as regular fuel?

See, here is where your ignorance of aviation is hurting you. If you have been around an airport, you would know that the fuel all comes from the same place. Where I am at, it comes from the port and it piped to the tank farm at the airport. All the fuel in those main tanks is the same, and is pumped from there out to each airside to a secondary pump that pumps to each gate. The entire system is underground and not accessible from the tank all the way to the gate without someone ripping up concrete or opening up manholes. They also have one small tank that holds military fuel since we are a diversion airport for MacDill AFB. If they ever have to switch fuel tanks they have to literally shut down fuel to the entire airside to do it, it’s a big deal and a huge mess. So much so that in all the years I worked there I only ever saw it happen one time. Point being that the gas is all the same, same additives, same everything, if they have to switch tanks for some reason then it’s switched an entire airside at a time. So if you go buy fuel and it come from the tank, then its exactly the same fuel that is going into the aircraft.

Also PisTonZOR brings up another great point. That fuel is checked all the time for impurities, water, bacteria, all kinds of stuff. Water is a big one because it seeps in the tanks from condensation and pipe leakage, water also gets into the tanks of the aircraft and has to be sumped off. They go through a great deal of work to ensure the quality of that fuel to be putting a bunch of blood, spider webs, and aluminum powder in it.
Also if you look, you might notice the HUGE filters on the backs of the fuel trucks, like this: Filter, which are used to keep fuel impurities out of the aircraft.

Originally posted by StellarX
while those aviation folks who don't know what is going on might arrogantly assume that they 'know it all' they clearly do not and have simply not explained what they have been asked to explain.

No such crap, if you can work a UsAir or a Continental flight, you can work a British Air or Air Canada flight. There are a few slight procedural and paperwork differences between airlines, but they all are ground serviced the exact same way. There is no uber secret upper echelon of personnel. Now each ramp group has a sort of A-Team that is used to work special flights, things like expensive charters, sports teams, flights that are going to have press coverage, or Unique aircraft that don’t come in regularly, but there is nothing really special these ramp agents either, I was on our team. Generally they are the guys with the most experience, with the best safety records, who act and look the most professional. Also as an airport is like a small city unto itself there is very little that goes on in it that is not known by all the people that work there, the rumor mill is always grinding away.

Originally posted by StellarX
Some are but as i have repeatedly said in the past i think chem trails are being laid for the good of Europeans and Americans

As Essan has repeatedly tried to explain to you contrails actually hurt the environment and NASA is trying to find a way to cut down on them. To think that they are making them on purpose to help the climate is exactly backwards of what is going on in reality.


[edit on 3/12/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by StellarX
Clearly the fuels used in the chem trails laying planes are differently and if you can not address that your not telling me specifically anything new.

Chem trails are still there and if regular fuel can not do that ( as you seem happily attempt proving; and i am not disagreeing) then you must address why we see what we do.

The engines have not changed significantly in the last ten years and certainly can not explain the appearance of chem trails. Increased traffic is certainly not important either as there were no great and sudden increases in the last decade as i have proven by source material. Three percent per decade is hardly 'significant' in that it can give rise to totally new atmospheric 'conditions'.

I’ll address this together as it’s somewhat related.

Persistent contrails are no biggy to me as I have always lived close to a major airport and have seen them since I was a young kid over 30 years ago. This was well before the whole Chemtrail thing sprang up. I see though that you live in South Africa and you are probably not used to seeing them. Personally if they are more prevalent, in your opinion, my first response is that its due to increased traffic in a location that is pretty remote by most standards. Even though PisTonZOR has shown that the increase in certain area’s has been in the realm of 14%, you will not accept that as the reason. So, since I know its nothing to do with the aircraft directly, I have to assume its one of the two other things that I know for a fact have changed and I can prove have changed.

First thing is the weather, I don’t even think I have to go out and find you any links to show you that atmospheric temperatures have changed over the years. Since temperature is a large factor in not only creating contrails, but in also causing them to persist that would be the first area I would research. I have noticed that here in Florida where its generally warm all the time, I see contrails persist more when its colder outside. I would also have to wonder if humidity is a factor in causing them to persist for longer periods. As I am not a weather person this is stuff that is better directed at someone like Essan.

Second, what you’re saying about the engines is as incorrect as what you have stated about traffic increase. Now I know I have told you specific aircraft types in the past when I have mentioned this, but you obviously don’t get what I am saying. Its like when I say Boeing 727, 707, or whatever, you read Bla, bla, bladidy, bla… So let me try this a different way.

I want you to look at the engines on these aircraft photos: 727, 707, DC-8, 737-100&200, and DC-9

What do you notice about the sizes of their engines? All about the same size aren’t they. Now consider that until the later 1990’s the 727 was the main workhorse used by all airlines for domestic flights. This was followed by closely by the DC-9 and then the 737-100 & 200. Some airlines, such as American and TWA only flew 727’s and DC-9’s for narrow body aircraft. Do you notice anything else about 727’s and DC-9’s in the engine department? How about the fact that the engines are all on the tail and very closely spaced?

Now lets time travel to the late 80’s and early 90’s. The 727 is still the main workhorse, but now the second most common aircraft is the 737-300, followed by DC-9’s, MD-80’s (same engines as a DC-9 basically), and the older 737-100 & 200’s. Engines are getting quite a lot bigger and spaced further apart, aren’t they?

Now lets set the way-back-machine for the early 2000’s and see what is most common now…
737-500, 737-600, 737-700, 737-800 (here is a comparison photo of the whole 737 family, which I wish I had found before making all these other links ), MD-80, the Airbus 330, and the757.

Now, I just stuck with the narrow bodies as they comprise the majority of the aircraft flying domestic routes, but even with wide bodies you will notice that the trend is going to larger and larger two engine wing mounted configurations with huge fan sections. You still think there have been just subtle little changes in the engines?

So why did they change… With the 737’s they found that they were able to eventually move more weight more efficiently with these newer planes. The 727’s were very robust aircraft, but they were getting old and expensive to maintain, they also were very inefficient fuel wise. Southwest airline came on the scene and flew nothing but 737’s and turned the market on its ear with its cheap fairs and quick turn-arounds. The other airlines had to ditch their aging 727 fleets and upgrade to become more efficient.

Anyway, ill get to the rest later on, but that is a good place for you to start your look, if you truly want to get to some truth on the subject.


[edit on 3/12/2007 by defcon5]

Ok let me answer two more real quick while I have some numbers here in front of me…

Originally posted by StellarX
Once again until we see 500 or 1000 commercial airliners flying in formation i simply do not see the relevance.

Atlanta International Airport recorded 2706 flights per day in 2005. If we figure that flight Ops generally run from 0600 am until 2400 am, that is an 18 hour day. Now if we divide 2706 by 18 we get an average of 150 aircraft per hour. Now aircraft do not arrive in random spurts, but rather they arrive in what is known as flight banks. A flight bank ensures that different flights are on the ground at the same time so that people can get off of one aircraft and get on a connecting flight without sitting around the airport for countless hours. They call this feat of running and screaming “hold the plane”, making a connecting flight (which your bags have about a 25% chance of missing, 50% if your connecting to another airlines, and 100% if the tugger passes an attractive flight attendant walking to the hotel van ... hint from an aviation guy always take a nonstop if you can ). So with that in mind let’s say they have one bank of flights per hour, which means that your 150 aircraft all arrive within the closest span of time in that hour as is humanly possible dependent on the number of runways. So with that in mind, you basically have that formation of bombers flying over the poor folks in Georgia on an hourly basis. I am sure that some poor moonshiner sitting in the hills of Georgia, who does not know that planes don’t use props anymore, thinks that the evil revenuers are out to ruin his business by creating constant cloud cover over his crops. The reality of the situation though is simply a misunderstanding based on perspective, its not in his perspective to understand what is really happening, so to him it’s a conspiracy, yet in reality the conspiracy is non-existent and he is simply being trampled under the wheels of progress.

And thus after about two flight banks, this is what Georgia looks like from satellite:
www.this-must-stop.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

Edit to add:
BTW I am being very kind to the Chemtrail crowd in the above analysis of Atlanta. First I am only counting each flight once as I am not sure if they mean total landing’s and take-off’s or just total flights. If it’s only total flights, then you have a contrail both inbound and outbound, so you can double the contrails to over 300 per hour. Secondly Flights are not even spaced out throughout the day as I averaged, they cluster more from 0800 am to 2000 pm. Also in the photo attached Atlanta International is not the only airport in that picture, so you have to add the flights from all the surrounding airports as well. Hopefully folks can see how quickly this can add up to really cloud over the sky.

Originally posted by StellarX
That being said on not one of the photos posted earlier is it made so 'clearly' evident that the contrails are persisting for 'hours' after the planes past and in almost all the photo's the planes creating the contrails are still visible? Considering the speed of those bombers that is not a very long 'contrail' at all and well within what is expected on rare occasions.

The aircraft would go to Germany then hours later they would turn back around and have to fly to the UK. In those days they did not have a weather service, and conditions were watched by observers on the ground (when possible) and by the pilots themselves. Aircraft back then did not have radar and it was a collision risk to fly through cloud cover. This pilot is telling you that when they turned back to England, sometimes hours later, they would have to avoid flying through the clouds that they created on the way over. I am sure that they also had to report that as part of their weather debriefing so that the next waves of aircraft heading over to bomb would be able to avoid it. Cloud cover was a big problem in WWII for aircraft. It interrupted Bombing, Reconnaissance, supply drops, pretty much all operations that required having a clear line of sight to the ground.

Ill get on the rest of them tonight…

[edit on 3/12/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by -0mega-
I don't know about you but in my country you can't buy vaccines.

My point exactly.

Our government funds the vaccinating process if a new disease is found and requires vaccination.

But they will sell whatever the substances that creates these chem trails at airports to civilians according to some here...

And to claim that buying fuel at commercial airports won't work because they probably won't sell the stuff that causes the chemtrails anyway is like those conspiracies in which the government is the suspect.

Doh? Who did you think had the resources to operate hundreds of aircraft/drones in a day to day basis?

There won't be a truth because you claim that the people that are supposed to supply the truth are lying.

I claim that the majority are avoiding disclosure for numerous reasons and the few that are asked are simply lying.

I have a better idea:
1.: Buy a hot air balloon
2.: Go fly up to the skies
3.: Grab some Chemtrail from the sky.
4.: Analyze it.

I would rather live a long full life than getting killed trying to prove a point to people who have trouble reading or comprehending any information that contradicts their opinion of reality.

If the trails are too high, search for someone else with a primitive airplane that can reach the altitude, and still go grab it.

Why? What do i stand to gain from this exercise? I have enough information to make up my mind , based on what i know so far at least, and if you do not see what i see that is your problem entirely. You can deny it as much as you like but if you choose to do that here i will introduce what i know and correct your mistakes.

Rather than speculating and making claims about stuff that's in the sky, why don't you actually GO UP THERE and GRAB your evidence.

Because I'm not 12 years old and do not require a hand full of sand to prove that deserts exist.

Problem solved.

There ain't no 'problem' here. :0

Stellar

OK. I am passed the mindless quoting. That, atleast for me is just an annoyance. I will answer your questions however I just won't have your quotes in my text.

Last year, 32.8 million travelers passed through SFO, a 12 percent increase from the year before

In 2005, UK airport passengers were predominantly bound for, or arriving from, destinations in Europe. The number of passengers on flights to or from Europe totalled 129 million, an increase of 8 million (6 per cent) on 2004. The largest growth was on routes to Italy, up by 1.0 million passengers (an increase of 11 per cent), Ireland, up by 0.9 million (9 per cent) and Poland, up by 0.8 million (85 per cent).

The next most popular destinations were either other UK airports or North America; each of these destinations accounted for over 20 million passengers. There were 26 million passengers on UK domestic flights, up by 4 per cent (0.9 million) on 2004; and 22 million North America passengers, up by 3 per cent (0.6 million). Despite this increase, passenger numbers between the UK and North America have not quite returned to their year 2000 levels of 23 million.

The total number of passengers from UK airports to all other destinations in the world was 25 million, an increase of 10 per cent (2 million) on 2004. The largest passenger growth was seen on routes to North Africa, up by 0.8 million (38 per cent), the Indian subcontinent, up by 0.6 million (27 per cent), and Australasia, up by 0.3 million (33 per cent).

Source: CAA.co.uk

Do NOT attribute them rises in plane size, as airliner size hasn't changed at all in the past 20 years.

The evidence that contrails can last some time is here:
itg1.meteor.wisc.edu...

Don't know about you, but I can make my contrails last for over 10 minutes where I become to bored to continue.

It may also look like one plane creates a persistant contrail which lasts for days. However that is never the case. For safety reasons, air traffic is kept in corridors. The sky is actually full of one-way motorways. So the planes all follow identical courses, like beads on a continent-wide string. However, as mentioned in the article high winds prevail in those high altitudes, and the and the lane phenomenon is mostly due to cross-wind: The first plane makes a contrail, which drifts with the wind. Those winds are easily 100mph, so by the time the next plane comes along, the contrail from the first has drifted a considerable way to the side. As a long succession of planes fly the highway, each adds a new lane to the drifting pattern, till the sky is virtually striped. To verify this, watch a contrail while keeping reference to a ground-object (tree, mast, or tall building). You will see it drifting unless you are blind.

So couple LOADS of planes flying the same route with fairly long lasting contrails will create these so called Chemtrails and criss cross skies.

You can go to www.airliners.net to verify the planes always fly the same route over and over and over:
www.airliners.net...
www.airliners.net...
www.airliners.net...
www.airliners.net...
www.airliners.net...

Military aircraft do not usually follow these routes, and there is no were near the numbers of Military aircraft as there is Commercial jets. This completely rules out the possibility of military aviation lying down your Chemtrails as they don't even fly those routes unless flying into a commercial destination. The only way that would be possible is if there were a HUGE fleet of UAV's flying accross the world, which is poposturous.

You may notice the sun it clear in the morning but gradually gets hazy. As the sun heats the air, moist air rises. Sometimes it will form clouds, on other days it just generally pushes the whole column of air upwards, and come the afternoon a high-altitude haze forms. This is a normal weather-mechanism, and it is for this reason that sunsets are usually redder than sunrises. Except for the rare occasion of super-saturated air, contrails have nothing to do with it, except that they of course add to the hazy look of the sky. Nothing to do with Chemtrails.

People ALWAYS keep whining to me about how people get sick on 'spray days'.
Well, contrails are most prominent on moist, hazy days. So is air-pollution. The hazy, possibly polluted air may make you cough and feel uncomfortable, but the culprit is the cars and chimneys right around you, not the planes passing miles over you. Watching the sky and imagining evil people spraying you isn’t going to make you feel any better.

People also say that chemtrails are getting sprayed out of the wings, even if the aircraft is rear mounted. Well, how do planes create lift? Creating high pressure underneath and low pressure underneath. Contrails coming if wings are caused when the air is highly supersaturated and the expansion of the air coming off of the wing surface is sufficient to cause ice crystallization
EG: www.airliners.net...
www.airliners.net...
BOTH them airplanes were Commercial.

FIBRES falling from the sky you say? That look like blood cells? Well, I have seen them. They seem genuine enough, however, think of this: ow fast do such near-microscopic particles fall? A few ft. per minute? Those planes fly at 30,000ft or even more. Microscopic particles and fine aerosols fall at maybe 2 ft. per minute or less, that means they would take about ten days to reach the ground from 30,000ft. And, of course, by that time they might have been carried a thousand miles from the release point. No, whatever is in those pictures is simply pollution, and if you want to find the source, you should not look up, but upwind.

Chemtrails starting and stopped? BS! Atmospheric water content is NOT consitent. Same reason why turbulence starts and stops out of no where. Same reason why clouds form in some places and in some places it dosn't. That's why it can give the appearance that Contrails are stopping and starting.

Next up: The idiocy behind Chembusters.
Following: I am working on why Contrails CAN persist right now.
Follwing that: detailed explaination on how planes are fueled and where the plane came from.

[edit on 13-3-2007 by PisTonZOR]

Chembusters is a rather well known way of getting rid of Chemtrails above and around your home.

The features behind these buckets with pipes coming out is:
- Greatly reduce the effects of Chemtrails within a 45 miles radius.
- Balances the weather
- Harnesses the power of postive Orgone energy
- gets rid of the NWO Cell-phone towers
- gets rid of negative energy.

To make a Chembuster you:
Put 6 copper pipes in a bucket
Put quartz crystals in the end of the copper
Fill the bucket with Resin and metal shavings

How they do this? The answer is simple. They don't. Instead, people claim they magically do with no scientific backing, and if someone needs to talk about Orgone, or copper pipe, go to the paranormal section. I'm just saying they do nothing about Chemtrails.

The scientific properties of Copper are:
en.wikipedia.org...

The scientific properties of Quartz crystals are:
en.wikipedia.org...

The scientific properties of metal shavings are:
Look up what metal on Wikipedia.

The scientific properties of Resin are:
en.wikipedia.org...

Anything about magical properties which magically do all the effects as claimed? Nope.
Is copper pipe, resin, crystals, and metal shavings going to clear Contrails which persist? No.
Is making a Chembuster a good way to bust something which dosn't exist? No.
Is spending $100 on fairly expensive materials for a Chembuster a good way to spend your hard earned cash? No.

Hell, I even heard Chembusters were banned in some Areas because it was so full of crap.

I'm gonna go watch some TV then I'll do the persistant contrails.

EDIT: May I add, that I will NOT be answering mindless quotes as 100% of what I have said in these two posts is correct. Don't beleive me? Fine.

[edit on 13-3-2007 by PisTonZOR]

Thanks for the pics - pics always help !!!

Heres a picture I found, I don't remember where or even if it is real.




[edit on 16/3/2007 by Sauron]