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Future of Scotland and Wales

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posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 07:04 AM
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Is there any realisitc chance that Scotland and/or Wales will become independent?

Why, or why not?..




posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 07:25 AM
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Speaking from Wales,I would say that there is zero chance of real independence from London.
A few years back they gave us our own Assembly,sort of like a welsh parliment,except that we are not allowed to change any laws unless london agrees.Scotland has more powers than wales i think,but still is not totally independent.
The government in London does not want Wales or Scotland to gain true independence
because they want all the power/taxes etc.
Scotland seem to get around this problem by infiltrating most of the positions of power in Westminster!
The fact that both Scotland and Wales are ruled by London does not detract from the fact that they are two seperate countries,with different ways of doing things than England.



posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 11:36 AM
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Does it actually matter that much? There's no repressive policies that prevent Scottish people celebrating Scottishness, Welsh people celebrating Welshness and English people celebrating Englishness. Sure, not everyone in the UK is the same but I see that more as a strength than a weakness. Are things really all that bad as part of the United Kingdom? How/why would they be better off if Scotland and/or Wales became independent? Have they considered the effect it may have on the rest of the UK also?

Being part Welsh myself (my father's family originally coming from the north of Wales), I'd be very disappointed to see Wales or Scotland remove itself from the Union. People have to get away from this irrational nationalism and look at things objectively, weighing up the pros and cons and coming to a considered and sensible decision. Unfortunately, people aren't thinking that way... which sets a very dangerous precedent for the UK's cohesion. So, to Welsh and Scottish nationalists I say: Are your policies really in the interests of your country? I do not believe they are.



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 05:58 AM
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The Union will either break up or become a federal state.

But in the event of the Union become no more....Wales will probably stay with England in the event of a break up, Scots will go off on their own with their oil (which is in English waters)

[edit on 11-11-2006 by infinite]



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 07:45 AM
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I see developing devolution as the way forward.

It makes sense to place as much of the decision making powers as close to the people effected by those decions.

That's why the initial devolving was never 'the answer' and it's why the debate continues.
That is a sign of nothing more than normal politics.

There always will be a degree of tension between 'the centre' and the devolved power but that doesn't negate the fact that devolution has actually strengthened 'the union'.

I do not see the UK breaking up - that danger lies in trying the opposite route. Had the old tory idea of a central authority in Westminster holding all the real power continued I do think there was a serious danger of a deep and damaging fracturing of the union.

So I do see a further loosening of the ties, politics is a dynamic thing.......but so what?
That is perfectly ok, our 'ties' are so deep and fundamental that the idea of a complete and total separation is, frankly, absurd.

It's in no-one's interest.



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
The Union will either break up or become a federal state.

But in the event of the Union become no more....Wales will probably stay with England in the event of a break up, Scots will go off on their own with their oil (which is in English waters)

[edit on 11-11-2006 by infinite]

That depends on what field you mean infinite, yes it was piped ashore in england but its ALSO piped ashore in scotland. To be honuest most of the fields around the english coast are gas fields.
www.ukooa.co.uk...

Oil fields:
www.schoolscience.co.uk...



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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(which is in English waters)


That is debatable?

And it would be challenged in the European Parliement, If the UK was to break up, at all... Whic I do not see happenin in my life-time...

But if it did break up, Id be one for protectin the North sea Oil, which is not english waters as you claim but part scottish and international waters....

So Infinite ur claim is wrong, and I can assure you onthat count Scotland would have ever right to claim them for their own, (not unless you want nukes aimed at England since we, in scotland have the only nuke subs in the UK as a Whole).

Joke off course



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:34 AM
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But you really cannot base your independence on oil, when English money goes to help the drilling of North Sea oil?

Plus, Scotland will have to reapply to the EU and it will take years to gain membership, so no economic support from the EU. Plus, you will loose more money from the Union because you will no longer be in it.

If Scotland wants to leave, then let them leave.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
But you really cannot base your independence on oil, when English money goes to help the drilling of North Sea oil?

But yet SCOTTISH money is ALSO spent on english projects is it not?
Also tere are MANY countries spending money in the north sea, it more a question of where that money goes to.


Plus, Scotland will have to reapply to the EU and it will take years to gain membership, so no economic support from the EU. Plus, you will loose more money from the Union because you will no longer be in it.

Simply stay in the union until we join the EU then claim independance.



If Scotland wants to leave, then let them leave.

I doubt that it would be that easy.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Simply stay in the union until we join the EU then claim independance.


How can that work? you will not be seen as an independent Nation by the EU, so how can you claim membership?



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
But you really cannot base your independence on oil, when English money goes to help the drilling of North Sea oil?


No, exactly, Scotland can't base its independence on oil (which the SNP seems to do) - as the Government has said on numerous occasions, within the next couple of decades we'll switch from being mostly self-sufficient in oil to using mostly imported oil. It would take decades to wean an independent Scottish economy from oil - decades that it doesn't have to spare before some nasty economic crisis creeps up on it. On top of oil running out, many nations are also changing from oil-based power generation to renewables and nuclear, so the market will also shrink. Prices for Scottish oil will only go up, and nations like China and India are more likely to go to the Middle East for their oil because it'll be cheaper and quicker/easier to transport. EU subsidies will obviously help, but won't pay for all the hospitals, schools, prisons, military and so forth.

This is what I'm saying - it seems to be irrational nationalism which is driving the campaign for Scottish independence. No one is stopping Scots being Scottish, and devolution has granted very significant powers directly to the people of Scotland, with support still coming in from the rest of the UK. Scotland has the best of both worlds - why let Alex Salmond and his poorly-thought-out policies take that away from decent, hard working Scots?



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:58 AM
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Someone made a good point on the BBC site about Scotland and their economy. Alex Salmond said it will not be a problem and Scotland can already cope, if thats true, how come Scotland still need and use the Barnett Formula?

I strongly feel that Scotland will get independence and will regreat it.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 11:13 AM
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Why would Scotland regret it?
I don't see the people of the irish republic regretting their independance but it wont be the Scots who get their independance it'll be the English.
Mind you with the flood of foriegn nationals setting up home here the English will be in a very small minority.


[edit on 25/11/06 by executioner]



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by executioner
Mind you with the flood of foriegn nationals setting up home here the English will be in a very small minority.



somehow i doubt that and Scotland has the same flood of foriegn nationals too.

Plus it was Scotland who invented the United Kingdom. It was your Monarch that united the crowns, its funny how you lot up North keep forgetting that.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 01:38 PM
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So because one fool made a mistake centuries ago we should be forever subjugated by England?
All I can say is
"FREEDOM!!!"

[edit on 25/11/06 by executioner]



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
How can that work? you will not be seen as an independent Nation by the EU, so how can you claim membership?

Put the ground work in for the membership then if need be leave the union and work for oursevles, we will need to at sometime.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 03:02 PM
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I just find it a bit dismaying that Scots feel so 'repressed' when it doesn't seem to me that they are.

Under-represented? No. The Home Secretary, Defence Secretary and the Chancellor of the Exchequer (soon to be Prime Minister) are all Scottish, and Blair was born in Scotland. Not to mention a Scottish Parliament.

So really, what I'd like to know is... why exactly do some Scots (and no, it isn't all of them by a long way) desire to break away from the United Kingdom? I know, I could look all this up on some website or in some book but I'd like to hear it from average Scottish people as opposed to Salmond and his chums. Or, indeed, do you support remaining a part of the Union?



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