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Did Curiosity Kill More Then Just The Cat?

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posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 06:50 PM
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Well you are probably wondering what it is I mean by that title. You might wonder what it has to do with the root of the universe as well, with religion, or anything even regarding this subforum. You are right to wonder so, and now I will explain why I titled it the way I did.

To start to understand what I am getting at, it is best to look at what you are doing in the sub forum to begin with. You are looking to debate the roots of this universe, life, and all things in being, correct? Some of you are here to spread the word of the lord, others are here to spread the process of science, and others are here for entirely different purposes. All of you though, are here for a similar cause. You're here to discuss origins, you are willing to debate it, and since the dawn of man, many have been willing to fight and even kill for it.

So we can agree you are all here to discuss, enlighten, and maybe even be enlightened to something you did not know. Now, look at the foundations of what you believe so far, or why you are searching for something to believe in. Where is the root? Curiosity maybe, fear of the unknown, or something else? Well Im sure some of you probably fear the unknown, but I bet a good many of you are just here because you are very curious. I bet it has nothing to do with fear, but just that inching feeling you get when you see a question you cannot solve.

That question is the origin to everything of course. You get that curiosity, that desire to know, because it is our desire to know all. Our imagine of god is all knowing, and most that believe in god strive for that image. In the end though, it is curiosity thats feeding us to be at this subforum right now.

So what exactly is my point in saying all of this? You are probably wondering right now "grim, what are you trying to get at?" Well I will tell you, just give it some time. Think about the way you live right now. Think about the things you do on a daily basis, and your actions. For a moment, forget everybody else around you and what they would do depending on their beliefs. Just think about what your life is like right now.

Ok now think about your belief system. Whether it be religion, science, or something completely different. Now imagine hypothetically, that everyone believed in it, followed it, and it was picture perfect. Imagine that all the questions were answered and certain. The questions and problems were solved, and it were certain to be correct. Now...what would you do?

Or better yet, for you religion people for example. Imagine if science were proven 100% correct and god were disproved. That there was irrefutable evidence, hypothetically. Now forget what everyone else would do, what would you do, knowing that it was false?

Would you stop going to work? Would you start a riot, start stealing like mad? Would you personally change your entire lifestyle if you knew that this belief were false?

Now back to curiosity for a moment. That curiosity has lead us to create science, religion, and all other explainations for the universe and why everything exists. Our strive to know, our curiosity, is why all these beliefs exist now. This curiosity has lead us into belief systems which a huge amount of people have been killed, enslaved, and discriminated against over.

My question to you ultimately is, what would you do when all the questions are answered, all the problems are solved? You may have to think about it for awhile, but I bet I know what your answer will be when it comes down to it. Your answer will be "to live". What else would be left after all the truths were revealed, all the problems solved? Living life would be what is left.

If we start at point A, and spend thousands of years making this journey to point B, how would you feel if you realized that the only difference between point A and point B is a lack of curiosity and mystery in life? Was it worth the years and years of death, beatings, and fights?

At the end of the day, there is little difference between knowing nothing about our origin and knowing all, other then the lack of curiosity to find the answers. Our curiosity has ended up killing more then just the cat. Its killed many people physically, it has done much damage to people physically over time from torture to beatings, it has lead to a race and fight to determine who is right. For what? To satisfy our own curiosity.

If you would change your entire lifestyle because your believe system were false, maybe you should rethink who you really are. If your actions is based on a belief system rather then what you think you should do given the situation, maybe its not an honest decision you made to begin with. You may have done the right thing according to your religion or belief system, but your heart still says otherwise, and nothing will change that. A belief system will never change who you are, only hide who you are.

So how many of you are making your actions based on who you are, rather then what system you believe in?

Now you understand my title, our curiosity has lead us on a struggle to truth, the truth which has no real relevance on our lives. At the end of the day, you are who you are, whether you choose to hide it or not. The reason I post it here? This is the grand question of all questions, the basis of curiosity, the biggest question man has faced. And when it is solved, will your life be any different? If so, why aren't you living that way now? The real question is, am I being myself, or just acting because its what I have been told is what I am suppose to do?




posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 03:23 PM
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no comments at all?Well that sucks lol. Spent a while writting that to see what everyone thought.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 09:50 AM
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Well grimreaper I reckon in order for there to be no God there would also have to be no such thing as morality. If that was the case I would live my life differently (and despite what you said I understand my belief system).
If there was no afterlife; morality and progress will still be my God.

Also I reckon spirituality-religion is (overall) an extremely good thing. Think of all the people who would been murders, rapists, (or just minor things like more frequent liars) if they hadn’t believed in a God. Whatever people say the net affect is good.
Yes religious fundamentalists (of whatever faith) have always caused wars; but then atheistic fundamentalists do that in politics too (just look at Hitler and Stalin). Fundamentalism (forcing beliefs) is a problem which can live independently of religion. It infects religion just like it infects other things.

I Want Paranormal Research…
Regarding solving religious differences look to science. I want more government backed research into things like the paranormal-supernatural. I believe only when we’ve proven things like the existence of an afterlife that we’ll be on the way to unifying all world religions; and frankly it’s about time.
So far only the military has led the way; and despite some amazing discoveries the research is (by design) not directed enough to this all important purpose. There isn’t a Westerner in the world who doesn’t question whether there is an afterlife; if we can spend millions (in itself a fraction of our GDP) into doing research onto pieces of space rock on the moon; then it’s about time we directed at least some money to this the all important question.

Unifying World Religion…
Once we can do experiments involving things like demons and Poltergeists; we can then try to come up with a more concrete example of how the whole thing works. We could even replicate near death experiences (say on death row prisoners?).
Anyway; so long as we publicly publish all the information to the worldwide web
(like Nasa’s space pictures) then we can start to come up with something a little bit like Darwinism.

To begin with religious people will object it “because it’s not what the Koran-Bible says.” But like Darwinism it will grow over time because it is the truth. In fact even at first it will grow quickly (particularly) in the West given all the people looking for answers.

Then eventually all that will be left are the religious fundamentalist. Often their indoctrination holds them backwards so these people are ether a pain in the neck, or born to be ruled as it is. I don’t believe in forcing beliefs so let’s leave them like that?

But in the West the effects will be pretty instant; doesn’t matter where you are in government or politics now or then; the fact is you’ll have a pretty good idea of why your going to “hell” (although I believe in reincarnation more). Therefore even if you don’t agree with the findings that say “God didn’t make the world in seven days” the fact is you’ll probably be better of with less morally backward people in authority. Obviously so too will almost everybody (rich or poor).


Originally posted by grimreaper797
no comments at all?Well that sucks lol. Spent a while writting that to see what everyone thought.


P.S As a general rule the longer the opening of a thread subject the less people that will read to the end of it, so less people that will reply. Sometimes I do that.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Liberal1984
Well grimreaper I reckon in order for there to be no God there would also have to be no such thing as morality. If that was the case I would live my life differently (and despite what you said I understand my belief system).
If there was no afterlife; morality and progress will still be my God.

Also I reckon spirituality-religion is (overall) an extremely good thing. Think of all the people who would been murders, rapists, (or just minor things like more frequent liars) if they hadn’t believed in a God. Whatever people say the net affect is good.


then they arent doing whats actually in their heart. Nobody ever got into heaven with a gun to their head. Just because you act a certain way doesnt mean that you will go to heaven or are doing the right thing. What if a murderer "found god" and never killed the person that he was going to kill. And later down the road because he didnt do that, a terrorist attack occurs and 100,000 people die.

We can never predict the future, there is no clear cut right and wrong. You do what you believe is what you should do, that is the only way you will truely be living how you were suppose to be.

How do we know that because some guy found god, didn't kill a man, that the man he killed is now alive and kills the man that was suppose to cure cancer? We don't know what is in store for the future, and we probably never will. That why we cant follow the clear cut path, because maybe its not OUR purpose.

All in all your morally right may have been the cause of many wrongful deaths in time.



P.S As a general rule the longer the opening of a thread subject the less people that will read to the end of it, so less people that will reply. Sometimes I do that.


I know that, I been here for awhile now. I just figure people might actually be interested. This is a rather dead forum anyway though.



posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 10:59 AM
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How do we know that because some guy found god, didn't kill a man, that the man he killed is now alive and kills the man that was suppose to cure cancer?


I understand that not killing anybody could mean they could go onto to kill somebody; or do something terribly wrong.
However statistics are generally against you as most people don’t ever become murders in their lives, in fact most people don’t kill anybody (even by accident). Also even if they did you would then have to consider the average age of the persons they kill; as if they were below that age then it would be particularly “uneconomical” to want them dead at the hands of some evil guy who hasn’t been stopped by their own belief in God.

I think most people do at least something terrible in their lives; but what are you saying? We should want most people dead because of that? And anyway don’t you think when it comes to stopping people sin; belief in God is a useful tool?
Because spirituality you may have a point when you say “they’re not refraining from the sins for the right reasons” but how do you know? Anyway at least…
1. They’re not committing acts of sin that harm the innocent
2. Because they believe in God they are probably closure to not committing sins for the “right reasons”. Yes of course to begin with not committing sin could be for the same reasons as committing sin (i.e. self-serving, self-centred, self obsessed, understanding of consequence). But because our evil manic is aware of God; he might care a bit more to find out about him (as opposed to not caring or being believing at all).

My objective in life is to have this world a better place for my existence than without it. I was simply pointing out that for this purpose religion isn’t all bad as belief in it helps stop nasty acts. But I now I point out it also puts people on a better path to understanding with God; hopefully you’ll (that perhaps with the exception of fundamentalism) it is a good thing.

Side Point: Come to Think of It….
Fundamentalism is actually a perfect example of people doing things because they’ve been brainwashed or even forced to; rather than from an understanding derived from “testing their faith” by analysing why it may or may not be right.
But even fundamentalism (where not perverted) has some good aspects too (although it’s more like the “ants nest model of the human race” as it is essentially totalitarian).



posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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[
I understand that not killing anybody could mean they could go onto to kill somebody; or do something terribly wrong.


well thats a start then.



However statistics are generally against you as most people don’t ever become murders in their lives, in fact most people don’t kill anybody (even by accident). Also even if they did you would then have to consider the average age of the persons they kill; as if they were below that age then it would be particularly “uneconomical” to want them dead at the hands of some evil guy who hasn’t been stopped by their own belief in God.


am I saying go out and kill? no not at all.
I am saying their is no defined right and wrong. There is no black and white where you can call it. The reason I think the 10 commandments was made by man is because of the logic behind it. Its limited. It was on the right path, but you could tell it was a non tolerant person who made it.



I think most people do at least something terrible in their lives; but what are you saying? We should want most people dead because of that?


wow you really didnt get anything I said did you? If I were put in the position where a guy were going to shoot 5 people down and I had the chance to kill him right before he did it, I would choose to kill him. Because even though it may be the worst thing to happen to man kind, it may be the best thing to happen as well. So both ways its a chance. But guess what. For those 5 people, I gave them some extra time on earth, where as the one man probably would have gotten death or the rest of his life in jail. To me, if that means I should go to hell because those 5 people have some extra time here with family and such, well then so be it.

Thats what I call following what I believe to be right, when religion and your interpretation of god says its wrong.


And anyway don’t you think when it comes to stopping people sin; belief in God is a useful tool?


If a person acts out of fear, they are not following god either way. If its not in your heart, your just trying to fake your way through everything. How do I know you fear it? Because a majority of you would change your ways if there were no god. If there were no god, you would act differently. Because of that, I know that you fear god, not follow him.



.....

My objective in life is to have this world a better place for my existence than without it. I was simply pointing out that for this purpose religion isn’t all bad as belief in it helps stop nasty acts. But I now I point out it also puts people on a better path to understanding with God; hopefully you’ll (that perhaps with the exception of fundamentalism) it is a good thing.

......


In short you think as long as you yourself benefit from the faking of other people, then it is alright. Well since they are faking it, it doesn't really matter? Well in that case if I were a bit of a more shallow person, I would do the same. Guess what though, its not just about what you do, but why you do it.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 07:28 PM
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Look: A world of sin is dysfunctional no matter how you look at it. Obviously it’s far better to use the truth to prevent sin as opposed to fear and lies. However since we have yet to put more money into things like paranormal research knowing what “the truth is kind of difficult” (and might remain so?).
Anyway (like your killing one person to save five people analogy) using fear and lies might be better than having a society full of sin. The only time I make an exception for myself on that is religious fundamentalism.
Their faith is usually a codename for indoctrination and religious-insecurity for asking questions. I think we can both agree that religious fundamentalism is a bad thing; if not as a version of religion then certainly when it becomes a force for authoritarian indoctrination (becomes this is when its history shows the worst face).




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