How does Gay marraige effect your relationship?

I believe that capitol hill is no place for religon.

Originally posted by DirtyPete
What about gluttany, lust, greed, cheating, gambling, divorce,.....

Yeah those things aren't good either.

Originally posted by DirtyPete
It seems like you're a hypocrit to me. As you said, your sins are as bad as his, so WTF would you want to restrict this one sin? Why this one? Go after all the other horrible # that's happening in the world. MAirrage isn't under attack by gays, it's under attack by divorce!

lol I'm not targeting anything...this is a thread sollisiting responses and opiinions about homosexual marrage....guess that's why I'm sharing my beliefs on...well...homosexual marrage.

If you want to start threads on the other "horrible #" please do and maybe I will give you my opinions on those topics too.

Originally posted by DirtyPete
.....strict dogmatic religions are the worst thing that could have ever happened to the world.

You have the right to believe that just like I have the right to believe in my faith.

Originally posted by DirtyPeteAnd basing your life on a book written thousands of years ago by MEN and taking it as the word of god is definately not a wise decision.

Thank you for sharing your opinion, I'm glad you have the right to express it.



[edit on 11-11-2006 by kinglizard]

But why is homosexuality such a bad thing. Just because it is a sin. There are thousands of sins. But why does this one stick out so much? It goes against the norms built up by society, and the brainwashing of the youth?

[edit on 11-11-2006 by Ford Farmer]

Originally posted by Ford Farmer
But why is homosexuality such a bad thing.

I know some groups use the bible to condone hate, I don't agree with groups that hide behind and manipulate the true meaning of the bible like that. As a matter of fact I think it's a sin against God to use his word in that way.

God loves all his children equally. Jesus died for the sinners not the richeous.

I think homosexuality is a sin because the bible teaches us that. The Bible says it's a sin, not THE sin, or number one on the sin list, just a sin, like the other sins outlined in the bible. I know it can be forgiven like any other and I know that ALL people sin.

Knowing that I believe it's a sin why would I support it's legalization? I know people can CLEARLY see where I am coming from.

Originally posted by Ford Farmer
There are thousands of sins. But why does this one stick out so much?

To me it doesn't stick out like this HUGE sin that I need to spend every waking second thinking about and fighting. The only reason I'm commenting is because the thread is dealing with the issue.

When there is a decision to be made that goes against the teachings in the Bible or supports the teachings in the Bible I will side with my faith. I wouldn't think that anyone could expect the oposite....or think it logical for a person to side against their own beliefs.


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Anyway, I think I'm finished with this thread...not because I'm angry or frustrated but I feel I have made my position very clear and am starting to repeat my answers because I keep getting asked the same questions.

I hope (know) you can understand that my position is not based on hate but on Faith and love.








[edit on 11-11-2006 by kinglizard]

I understand, and appreciate your opinion, Kinglizard, It was good to debate with you.

long days and pleasent nights,
Ford Farmer

....or think it logical for a person to go against their beliefs.

People go against their beleifs more often than you'd think,
especially when two or more of their beliefs clash with each
other.


An example of my own, I am a pacifist, and deplore fighting,
however I also believe in absolute freedom, so if I see two
people fighting, and they're equally matched, my pacifistic
beliefs tell me to stop them, but at the same time my belief
in absolute freedom tel me that it's not my place to try and
prevent them from doing something they are both consenting
to do.

But iori you are only choosing between TWO of your beliefs. You aren't siding with something that goes against your belief.

Peace everyone, Im out.....





[edit on 11-11-2006 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard
Anyway, I think I'm finished with this thread...not because I'm angry or frustrated but I feel I have made my position very clear and am starting to repeat my answers because I keep getting asked the same questions.

I hope (know) you can understand that my position is not based on hate but on Faith and love.

[edit on 11-11-2006 by kinglizard]

Interesting, I've been completely ignored.

In the words of Jar-Jar Binks: "How wude!"

"Faith and Love..."

I would have prefered Logic and Courage, but such is the nature of the flock.




[edit on 11-11-2006 by Bhadhidar]

It would not affect my relationship in any way. It would probably make me happier overall, as it would give me faith in people and their ability to accept others for who they are. It would make me glad to see that there are a lot of people who care about the rights of others, even if they are different than themselves.

Question for those who believe homosexuality is a sin... would you consider all those who kill in combat sinners as well? Because "Thou shalt not kill" is pretty straight forward... and from what I see, those who kill are treated a lot better than those who love one of the same gender.

(for the record, I think neither are "sinners")

I would advise to all to real Kinglizard's signature, it is very enlightening, and interesting, It gave me the chills, and Yet it brought me peace, reassuring me that there is a God.

Originally posted by Fear_the_Sheeple
It would not affect my relationship in any way. It would probably make me happier overall, as it would give me faith in people and their ability to accept others for who they are. It would make me glad to see that there are a lot of people who care about the rights of others, even if they are different than themselves.

Question for those who believe homosexuality is a sin... would you consider all those who kill in combat sinners as well? Because "Thou shalt not kill" is pretty straight forward... and from what I see, those who kill are treated a lot better than those who love one of the same gender.

(for the record, I think neither are "sinners")

I am afraid that killing a man for your country is far less of a crime than screwing a guy.

KL, I too, understand your position. I just completely disagree with it. I think the majority making laws that discriminate against the minority is wrong. I think that's a sin and I cannot fathom any love in the decision to do so. So we just have 2 "faiths" bumping up against each other and we all know where that gets us.

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
Interesting, I've been completely ignored.

I just wanted to say that you have not been completely ignored. It's just that some points you made here: politics.abovetopsecret.com... cannot be refuted and therefore must be 'ignored' to maintain the position of voting FOR discrimination. But don't feel too bad. Many of my points and questions weren't answered either. There is no answer, especially based on logic, courage, faith and certainly love, in my opinion.

That post is really very good!

Ford Farmer, how do you think it would affect the relationship of others. There must be an original reason why Homosexualty was seen as taboo and forbidden, maybe eons ago there was a real reason but who knows what. That reason was encoded into religious writings and society. Such reasons are today totally outdated and have no place in modern society. Its a bit like asking a Jew why he dossent eat pork, because its a dirty animal he says, but where does the original reason come from and why. As inteligent people we know that a Jew consuming pork may offend ones religion but its not going to kill them is it.

The problem today is that too many people are living their lives by old traditions and beliefs that frankly only serve to divide social groups and does nothing to bring people together. People need to realise that we are human beings and that is what is important, living together in peace and harmany and understanding rather living in fear and ignorance. Variety is the spice of life is it not.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Ford Farmer, how do you think it would affect the relationship of others.

not at all. why would it?

Ford Farmer.......isn't there a US state that recently aproved Gay mariage. Wasn't it Rode Island (is it a state? lol) or something? I remember reading about it. Why not moving there if you want to get married to a guy. If you want it to make it happen do so, even if you need to move to another country, you would be probable better off. Don't let you hold back because some people think the bible is everything there is in life. If it is that important for you, you can make it happen.

On the other hand, I don't think it wont take that long for your country to accept gay marriage, it is a matter of time.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
There must be an original reason why Homosexualty was seen as taboo and forbidden, maybe eons ago there was a real reason but who knows what.

Actually, it wasn't a big deal. There were certain sexual acts that were considered wrong, but because they involved rape, slaves or children. It's only more recently that regular old homosexuality was made out to be something bad. (See Religious Tolerance link below)

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Its a bit like asking a Jew why he dossent eat pork, because its a dirty animal he says,

Good point. But we don't see Jews voting to outlaw pork, do we? I don't see Jews saying "I don't eat pork, so NOBODY should be allowed to eat pork." That's exactly the same as some Christians saying that they don't believe in gay marriage or homosexuality so NOBODY should practice it.

This is a REALLY interesting page on the subject.

Religious Tolerance

There is no term that means homosexual orientation in the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts of the Bible.
The authors of the Bible did not understand sexual orientation and thus did not write about it.
...
It is reasonable to assume that many loving gay and lesbian relationships existed in Biblical times. Rabbi Gershon Caudill wrote: "Like all indigenous peoples, the Jews were not overly concerned about male homosexuality, where two men lived together in a monogamous, sexual relationship. As a rule, it did not get any notice....The Talmud does not record a single instance of a person being brought before the Sanhedrin on the charge of homosexual activity." 6 It was only a millennium after the Torah was written that the Talmud makes its first reference to homosexuality as a perversion. This occurred during the time when the Hebrews were being influenced by Greek culture -- one which accepted homosexual behavior.

If there is no term that means homosexuality in the original bible, can anyone say they KNOW that God deems it a sin? If there is no term that means homosexuality in the original bible, where did it come from?

Take Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, for example. A word-by-word analysis of these two verses by the National Gay Pentecostal Alliance (NGPA), showed that the passages do not prohibit all same-sex behavior; they do not even prohibit all male same-sex activities. They merely control where male-male intercourse is allowed. ...

"And with a male thou shalt not lie down in beds of a woman; it is an abomination. That is, "rather than forbidding male homosexuality, it simply restricts where it may occur." This may seem a strange prohibition to us today, but was quite consistent with other laws in Leviticus which involve improper mixing of things that should be kept separate. e.g. ancient Hebrews were not allowed to mix two crops in the same field, or make cloth out of two different raw materials, or plow a field with an ox and a donkey yoked together. A woman's bed was her own. Only her husband was permitted there, and then only under certain circumstances. Any other use of her bed would be a defilement.
...

The New International Version (NIV) currently translates Leviticus 18:22 as:

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

The New Living Translation (NLT) widens the translation to also include lesbians:

"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.

Deny Ignorance...

it doesnt/wouldnt

everyone is entitled to their own belief's if a couple of the same sex are in love and want to wed it has no effect upon me what so ever

Since BH brought up alternate interpretations of Levitus 18:22 and 20:13, here is what the church I was raised in has to say on the matter.

Within the patriarchal culture when a man treated another man "like a woman" he degraded him, because women were considered non-persons. This was reflected in an ancient Near Eastern practice of anal raping of captured male foes as a sign of domination. In patriarchal societies, the worst and most degrading thing a man could do to another man is to use him as a woman might be used.

Secondly, the Hebrew understanding of procreation was that the sperm contained all of life. It entered the female body for incubation only. Thus, the spilling of sperm in coitus interruptus (Genesis 38:1-11), masturbation, or anal intercourse was like abortion or murder.

www.united-church.ca...

Thank you Duzey and Benevolent Heretic. We've seen it time and again in threads like this. Those (homophobes?) that believe that homosexuality is a sin only because its amongst the ancient laws in the Old Testament in the Bible. These people don't really realise where these by-laws come from, and what their purpose was. These people also pick and choose these ancient by-laws as they see fit. It is at this time that an example would be fit:

Like if a woman has her period, she is “impure” or “unclean” for the day – or days – she has her period. Everything she touches becomes “impure”. So she basically isn’t allowed to do much on the day in question. If the man were to touch the woman he’ll be impure. He then have to wash himself, wash his clothes and he’ll be “unclean” until the evening. If a man has a bodily “discharge” (yes, semen) he is “unclean” for the rest of the day – after he washed his clothes and bathed. Now I know a couple of men who would be seen as “unclean” pretty much every other day. (Lev 15)

Then there’s the matter of a child that swears at his/her parents. This child must be killed. No kidding. And this is even mentioned by Jesus in Mark 7:9-13 (See also Matthew 15:4-7)… Can you imagine parents killing their own children because of a kid’s anger fit?!

Leviticus doesn’t condemn slavery, nor polygyny (it’s ok for a man to have more than one wife?!).

Funny how these Christians that like to show Lev 18:22 to homosexuals, but completely ignores all the other laws. Funny indeed.

I wonder if these people still sacrifice a lamb on the necessary days and festivals?

If you can recall Moses led the Jews (Israelites) out of Egypt and they spent a couple of years wandering around in the desert. Then at some stage God gave Moses the 10 commandments. Remember that? God gave the Israelites 10 laws to obey. Leviticus has a lot of rules in it. After reading it, I think Moses may have broken the first set of tablets in protest of the fact that he was going to have to carry about 1000 more down the mountain and then he and God negotiated down to two. Leviticus has a lot of animal sacrifice requirements in it as well. (So many that you start to suspect that it was written by a man that sold livestock for a living…) The sub-laws as described in Leviticus were written by the temple-priests in order to keep the masses in line. It was their “state laws” – as we have laws instated by the government we have to obey. These laws are there to keep the masses from doing what they want and to keep everything from falling apart. Many of the laws were there to help the masses with personal hygiene. That’s where all the “impure” and “unclean” laws come from…

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All that said. I won't ever get married. (Gay marriages are legal in South Africa.) No piece of paper or ceremony will ever have an effect on my relationship with anyone. Why should a piece of paper or a legal agreement change how I react towards anyone or how I feel about someone?

Originally posted by Gemwolf
Why should a piece of paper or a legal agreement change how I react towards anyone or how I feel about someone?

How wonderful that you have the choice, the same as I do.

And my legal arrangement with my husband doesn't change how I feel or react to him. It does hold many other LEGAL benefits, though. If he should be on life support, I decide what happens, because I am his legal wife. If he is in the hospital dying, I get to go in and be with him because I am his legal wife. If he dies, I automatically inherit everything that is his. I also inherit the monies from any insurance (our house would be automatically paid off and in my name, for example). And being his wife, if he gets medical insurance from his employer, I, as his spouse, am also covered. Then there are tax advantages... the list goes on.

Just wanted to point out that marriage isn't just about feelings. I don't need a piece of paper to illustrate my commitment.

Great input, Duzey and Gemwolf. I do wonder why people who hold the bible as the Word don't look into its meaning a little more. Many take the watered-down, milque-toast version as if God spoke those words himself... As if God cared whom we love... I'm really surprised the 'translations' didn't stick something in there about how people who are 'dark of skin' shouldn't be hanging out with the pure white people...