The Skeptic Overlord speaks to political geeks...

pretty much everyything william has said in this thread i've been saying since i got here and here's the difference.

we're both saying the same thing but i get treated with hostility or i am flatout ignored and he gets accolades....


hmmm seems the messenger still has priority over the message.....:bnghd:

oh well i still keep trying...

colonel... you're toast! william got you on the same points ive been making...but deny it and continue to give yourself the false victory. its not about winning or losing but keep thinking it is. they enjoy it when their sheeple never question how they should think or vote.

I have to take time out from packing and moving and though I hate the mudpit because I think politics sucks all around, I wanna second William's original post. Earlier in the year, I referenced both political sides to that of the antics of (un) professional wrestling. I too earn some of the Colonel's shiny PC labels from time to time when I put forth that ideology. To think that either side of this nasty game is any better than the other morally or philosophically is as narrow minded as one can get. Dems and the GOP have the same objectives, to keep us all distracted. Colonels' passion to put forht that the dems are above this in some way only proves that he's bought into it hook, line, and sinker. I am or was a Democrat..since the first time I voted..but now, my eyes have been opened to a wider field of vision ..and in a way, from what I now know, sometimes, I wish I had just stayed distracted. But that illusion has been lifted and never again will I pledge blind trust to any group, let alone a political party.

The truth is, George Bush is a spoiled rich kid who had his way bought for him and is controlled by his supporting special interest.

Bill and Hillary Clinton..oh man, where to start? Maybe I should just leave it at that. I'm not prepared to argue the points anyway..because out all all the political arguments we've had here, has any outcome ever changed anything? No, its driven a wedge deeper between members..just as is was designed to do.

If I could advocate any political choice, I would advocate that no one blindly buy into rhetoric. Think for yourselves and remember that all that propaghanda coming in is designed to push you farther away from ability to do the one thing that hurts the powers that be, deny ignorance.

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
we're both saying the same thing but i get treated with hostility or i am flatout ignored and he gets accolades....

It's the avatar... mine's more credible than yours.

"Oh, William makes the good points." ALL HE SAID WAS BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME. I CONTEND THAT THEY ARE NOT! I CONTEND THAT THE REPUGNANTS ARE EVIL AND RACIST SCUM, TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAT DEMOCRATS.

But, you believe that BOTH sides are alike. Well, I suggest you do like I ALWAYS do.....


PROVE IT.

(AND STOP BEING INTELLECTUALLY LAZY)

Both side blame the country's problems on the other side. Sure, different reasons/blame/crap but it's the blame game none the less.

So... both sides are the same. You still can't see beyond what your polar conditioning lets you see... the real problem.

No proof is needed, everything I say is occuring before our eyes. You prove it with every post. Thomas Crowne proves it with each one of his.

Done.

Originally posted by William
Both side blame the country's problems on the other side. Sure, different reasons/blame/crap but it's the blame game none the less.

So... both sides are the same. You still can't see beyond what your polar conditioning lets you see... the real problem.

No proof is needed, everything I say is occuring before our eyes. You prove it with every post. Thomas Crowne proves it with each one of his.

Done.

That's just a cheap and easy way out. So, both sides blame the other and, as such, each are the same. You're gonna have to do better than THAT. Same how? Are the Democrats the evil scum of the earth like repugnants? How so? Got any facts or actions of theivery, murder, killing, hypocrisy, gross and murderous lies to the American people, and the like.

No, you don't get off that easy. You don't take the way of the repugnant.



[Edited on 13-11-2003 by Colonel]

William, I could not read more than a posts of this thread before I started feeling nauseated. I haven't smelled that much manure since I helped out at the stables at my first duty station.

Why the upsurge in the conservative movement? Simple. The nation is getting fed the heck up with the attempts at socializing and liberalizing this country, that is why!
Even people who have never even glanced at a copy of the constitution, only held the family Bible once or twiceand was still crapping technicolor in the diapers when Father Reagan spoke of the Evil Empire knows right from wrong in their heart, and they are growing sick of this grand liberal scheme to tear down this country through the use of today's Democratic Party. That is why their is this growing rise in conservatism. By the way, the ideals of conservatism are not new, they are as old as the country. It is the liberal movement that is the new kid on the block, a mere few decades on the scene, intent on destroying what made the country strong in the beginning, and carries it through the darkest hours the nation had seen. We will either wake people up, educate them regardless of their public education brainwashing, or we will lose the country as we know it...as we used to know it.

Now, Mr. Advertising computer geek, go sell crazy somewhere else as we are all stocked up here!!!

Oh look, twedle-dee and twedle-dumb... book ends in the eternal game you've been taught to play.

Look how you both struggle to disapprove of the truth, to deny what you fear, that your politics are not what you thought they were.


Colonel... do I need to continue bashing your head with the hammer of logic? You misunderstand the rationale behind my calling repugnants and demorats as the same. You're the same because you both blindly play the games of your side... too concerned with fighting the others and not spending any time on the problem.


Thomas... too long has it been since we grappled theology, this is no different. The church of conservatism has filled your head with silly thoughts, blinded you to the truth, and put carefully crafted words into your mouth. History my fine rabid conservative fundamentalist friend, history. You seem unaware of it, since you feel your current conservatism is something that history supports. BAH! Your brand of Ditto-Head conservatism is born of the talk-radio pabulum puke fed into your cranium.


Look at you two. Identical. Twin sons of a different mother. Good think the Supreme Skeptic Overlord is here to bring you to into the age of reason. Trust me, it won't hurt, and you'll thank me soon enough.

Originally posted by William

You're the same because you both blindly play the games of your side... too concerned with fighting the others and not spending any time on the problem.

Well, look at this extra helping of crapola. Blindly play the games of my side. BEFORE it may have been a game. NOW, with this evil administration and their repugnant philosophy (which you happen to agree with me on), this is a matter of life and death for the soul of this country.

So, what am I supposed to do? Throw my hands up and say both sides are bad. NO. I WILL CHOOSE A SIDE--the side of the righteous and the just. Its no longer a game when people are dying here and in Iraq. Its no longer a game when, just in 3 years, our country is deteriorating from without and within.

As such, you HAVE to choose. But, you don't want to choose. It takes a man to make the hard choices, William. Even God spoke on this....

Revelation 3
15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Why the upsurge in the conservative movement? Simple.

It was the repugnant control of the media in the early 90's (based upon Clinton's winning over Bush 1) which brain-washed everyone by catering to its lowest common-denominator of insults and name-calling of Democratic ideals, veiled racist statements, and claims of superiority (like Nazis) that got the Conservative Movement afoot.

You repugnants are really nasty and mean-spirited people.

Originally posted by Colonel


It was the repugnant control of the media in the early 90's (based upon Clinton's winning over Bush 1) which brain-washed everyone by catering to its lowest common-denominator of insults and name-calling of Democratic ideals, veiled racist statements, and claims of superiority (like Nazis) that got the Conservative Movement afoot.

You repugnants are really nasty and mean-spirited people.

Right now though you and I know that the demoncracks like you own the media. They like you Bush bash on every step.

Originally posted by ColonelAs such, you HAVE to choose. But, you don't want to choose. It takes a man to make the hard choices, William. Even God spoke on this....

I hardly think the Angel's scolding of the Laodiceans applies in this case (oh yes, this atheist can argue scripture with the best... ask Thomas ), because I'm not "luke-warm" at all... I'm simply not playing your game. You've been so brain-washed into believing a person must choose that you can't understand someone who hasn't. What does this sound like? Hmmm? Religion? Indeed. Why do you think politics (for the people) has adopted attributes of religious beliefs?

Oh, I've chosen... I've chosen not to be told by the leaders or mouthpieces of a party what to think. I've made the deliberate decision to think for myself. There are aspects of both typical "liberal" and "conservative" platforms I agree with, as well as more moderate views on solutions to problems. A mix. A mix in which I've made my own decisions, not simply accepting the crap someone else tells me should be my decision.

So... what other scripture would you like to toss my way?

But this one was good, I'll give you that... pop-foul this time, you caught a piece which is better than you have been doing... good, your warming up. But... oh, too bad, that's still strike two!

[Edited on 14-11-2003 by William]



[Edited on 14-11-2003 by Colonel]

Might I point out that using your logic, the label "Centrist" would be "Playiung the game as well" my post was not intended to be about classifying anyBODY it was about classifying a philosophy.

Without an identifiable target people have a hard getting to where it is they need to get to.

It is my opinion that America needs to be INDEPENDENT of BOTH the poly-sci experiments known as Extreme Liberalism and Extreme Conservatism...

Nitpicking and semantics isn't going to get us there. While I agree with virtually everything you stated in your original thread I also beleive that without "pointing the way" the two LOUDER camps will continue to be victorious at the polls.

You see, you left out one other major fact about the "Majority of Americans"... THEY DON'T VOTE. Usually because they are totally disgusted with two extreme sides lunacy and figure it'll do no good.

Whereas if the middle, centrists, whatever you want to call it could pull to the forefront there would be actual hope of changing the situation. Here's why it never happens...

Common sense and logic are BORING, people don't get excited over an ROI (return on investment) analysis on a given proposed governemnt project or program, they do excited about "Free money", "Government Jobs", "Lucrative contracts", scandals, blah blah blah that these two camps are continuouisly hollering about...

PEACE...
m...

Originally posted by William

Originally posted by ColonelAs such, you HAVE to choose. But, you don't want to choose. It takes a man to make the hard choices, William. Even God spoke on this....

I hardly think the Angel's scolding of the Laodiceans applies in this case (oh yes, this atheist can argue scripture with the best... ask Thomas

), because I'm not "luke-warm" at all... I'm simply not playing your game. You've been so brain-washed into believing a person must choose that you can't understand someone who hasn't. What does this sound like? Hmmm? Religion? Indeed. Why do you think politics (for the people) has adopted attributes of religious beliefs?

Oh, I've chosen... I've chosen not to be told by the leaders or mouthpieces of a party what to think. I've made the deliberate decision to think for myself. There are aspects of both typical "liberal" and "conservative" platforms I agree with, as well as more moderate views on solutions to problems. A mix. A mix in which I've made my own decisions, not simply accepting the crap someone else tells me should be my decision.

So... what other scripture would you like to toss my way?

But this one was good, I'll give you that... pop-foul this time, you caught a piece which is better than you have been doing... good, your warming up. But... oh, too bad, that's still strike two!

[Edited on 14-11-2003 by William]



Oh, NOW, the truth is out. You're an atheist---morality is relative to you. You can pick and choose what you like in terms of morality and decency like a Denny's buffet b/c, in the end, none of it really matters. There are no real truths---just YOUR perception of it.

That's how you can choose ideas on the conservative and liberal side without adherng to either.

This is shallow because you REFUSE to commit to anything. Today, you might like one idea but give it up on a whim tomorrow for whatever reason. Doesn't matter, does it.

Allways picking and choosing. Always beig lukewarm. Always being wishy-washy. In the end, NO ONE can trust your judgment as to what's best for society because, at the core, there is no real judgment as to what's best for society.

At the core, there is nothing.

(And the crowd goes wild as the Colonel hits it outta the park)

Yup... typical... attack the messenger, not the message.

You know little of my ethics, and even less of atheism. Should we call this strike three? Looks like you caught a crap-load of air on that swing... hmm... wasn't even a swing really, more like a missed bunt.

Originally posted by William
Yup... typical... attack the messenger, not the message.

You know little of my ethics, and even less of atheism. Should we call this strike three? Looks like you caught a crap-load of air on that swing... hmm... wasn't even a swing really, more like a missed bunt.

Actually, I drew blood. I know why you say both sides are the same...yet will choose ideas from either side (that are different) to fit your sense of morality. But, that leads me to a question.

If boths sides are the same but with differing ideals, how can you pick and choose between differing ideas of the two groups and then claim that they are the same?

I said: "There are aspects of both typical "liberal" and "conservative" platforms I agree with." That does not mean I pick and choose from the rhetoric buffet as you seem to think. It means I focus on the issues, and not the MALE BOVINE SHYTE that happens when you focus on the other party.

Originally posted by William
I said: "There are aspects of both typical "liberal" and "conservative" platforms I agree with." That does not mean I pick and choose from the rhetoric buffet as you seem to think. It means I focus on the issues, and not the MALE BOVINE SHYTE that happens when you focus on the other party.

and the fact of the matter is,
democrats smell funny...
like a smelly form of a cheese...

Originally posted by Springer
If ONLY the other "Centrists" on this board would start typing a little more, thank you William for the above, we might actually create a little LOGICAL discourse around here...

I have been labeled a "Repugnant" by the Colonel because I don't buy his extreme liberal view point. After discussing several topics with him he acknowledged the fact that I am indeed an independant.

THe reality of the situation in this country is fairly close to what William describes above. ALL of the diehard, extreme fighters of one side or the other have been manipulated into playing a role cast by a Powerhouse that seeks the control of the country.

There are currently only two "Powerhouses"... I favor conservative fiscal policies and the liberal social policies but, the never the twain shall meet... This leaves us in the position we are in now, one "side" against the other "side".

I will admit that this is the WORST political system on Earth until you consider all of the other ones... BUT we can do better, if only we could start thinking with our minds rather than thinking with our emotional connections to bravado spewed by professional speech writers...

PEACE...
m...

High standards, coming from a biker.

I don't see why people have to be so righteous about who is what, just say whats on your mind, and we'll be the judge.

Your appearing 'reasonableness' is a fallacy.

America is as polarized as ever because the Extreme Right and G.W. made it that way.

At least you don't get your philosophy from talk radio, like a lot of other geeks.

I f I could make ANY sense out of what you posted I could respond...

I'll ignore the bit about me being a biker. If you think it's wrong to take LOGIC over RHETORIC and B.S. that's YOUR problem...

The ONLY way America is going to get "better" is when people like you STOP pointing fingers at people like Bush and START focussing on the SOLUTIONS to the problems.

Like I said in my post that is boring and that's why most people don't vote. It's simple really. Look at T.V. it's a mirror of what society enjoys.

If it wasn't there wouldn't be any ad money flowing into the media. That's how it works. The money goes to the group, company, association that attracts the most people who will see the ads and ultimately BUY the product.

This whole game known as politics is NO DIFFERENT. Unfortunatley it is usually he who spews the loudest and the most controversial stuff gets the fund raising capital and gets his chance to go for the whitehouse.

My whole point was a candidate that actually got up and rationally discussed the issues and calmly presented solutions would put most of America to sleep with boredom and disinterest.

The REASON this is so is because the two powerhouse marketing machines, the Democratic and Republican Parties have made it so with ingenious sales pitches.

Make NO MISTAKE their is very little, if any TRUE Ideology in either party, they are Marketing Machines NOT philisophical think tanks contemplating the betterment of mankind.

Their mission is to get the most capital for their candidate. They have to use the same marketing principals that anyother business would use. Their product is their candidate, you buy it by making donations to his campaign and thus they get the capital to take him to the next level.

To think of this in anyother light, IMHO, is to avoid reality.

THIS is the inherant problem with our system today, EVERYBODY has to sell out to win. The two parties have conditioned some people well enough that they actually think the rhetoric is real philosophy and NOT marketing hype.

The rhetoric is the ONLY thing they can use to distinguish one from the other. All the verbosity and bravado is window dressing attempting to capture YOUR attention and hopefully your money and vote.

At the end of the day a true centrist doesn't stand a chance the way the system is stacked against him unless he too jumps into the marketing fray. I beleive alot of very sincere people have started out to effect change in politics and got either so distracted by all the effort required to get heard and simply blended in or got disgusted by it and left the racket all together.

When the number one marketing tools are drek like "Reality T.V. Shows" that tells me this country is in a sorry shape. Understanding that marketing tools that work are a direct reflection of the mindset you are hoping to attract (they wouldn't spend their money on the product if they didn't see the ad and they wouldn't see the add if they weren't watching the show), you now see how I come to these conclusions.


PEACE...
m...