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The Skeptic Overlord speaks to political geeks...

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posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 07:23 AM
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(I started writing this as a respsonse the Colonel's essay here: The Colonel speaks to the repugnants. and then thought it might make a nice new thread.)


Originally posted by Colonel
So, I speak to the repugnants.

I have lambasted you for months...daily. I bring you truth after truth after truth, verfied with facts. Yet, you refuse to listen.

So, now, we come to brass tacks.



Well is refreshing to see that even though the Colonel is now the man, he's still full of vitriol.

Here's a lightning bolt... I agree with most of what the Colonel said, but also believe it applies to him as well.

The "brass tacks" he speaks of is not the repugnants, it's political geeks that pick one "side" over the other. While his little angry essay here is a reasonably well-crafted rant in the tradition of how he's been taught to be an angry extreme-liberal, it lacks one simple attribute, reality.

We've certainly watched with amazement as the Colonel came to ATS, our first really angry extreme-liberal. We've had some that came close come and go, and even a few that sill lurk in the corners, but Colonel fights his fight with a passion and energy that is at least admirable. But unfortunately, it's a misdirected passion. He's bought the party line and fell victim to the indoctrination of extremism that has become typical of extremist urban liberals. And the line is, "The problem is not the problems, the problem is them." (If you notice, the same "line" is being fed to extreme conservatives.)

Yes.

The current political atmosphere is no accident. The finely crafted, highly divisive, eternally distractive two-party system so nicely divides the "traditional liberal" and "traditional conservative" viewpoints into new extreme territory. A territory of rhetoric and anger that has never been seen before in the American or world stage before. The Colonel and his extreme-repugnants are examples of the results of a long-standing plan to keep people divided and subjugated to petty bickering about each other. This way, as they're now convinced the real problem is "them", they never really spend any time on the real problems... focused as they are on thinking the problem is the other guy who thinks diametrically different.

How neatly the landscape of American political thought has been pretty equally divided into two opposing camps that each blame the other for the country's ills. Given the mission of this website, the things we research, the ideas we find, and the theories we espouse, who here thinks this is an accident?

I have one word for both "sides" of this silly game you've allowed yourselves to enter...

Listen.

You'll never know the real problems without shutting up and listening to what's really going on... and understanding that you're just unwitting players blindly following orders within a game in which you've not been told you're playing, much less understand the rules.


Repugnants and Demorats... deny ignorance.




posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 08:14 AM
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If ONLY the other "Centrists" on this board would start typing a little more, thank you William for the above, we might actually create a little LOGICAL discourse around here...

I have been labeled a "Repugnant" by the Colonel because I don't buy his extreme liberal view point. After discussing several topics with him he acknowledged the fact that I am indeed an independant.

THe reality of the situation in this country is fairly close to what William describes above. ALL of the diehard, extreme fighters of one side or the other have been manipulated into playing a role cast by a Powerhouse that seeks the control of the country.

There are currently only two "Powerhouses"... I favor conservative fiscal policies and the liberal social policies but, the never the twain shall meet... This leaves us in the position we are in now, one "side" against the other "side".

I will admit that this is the WORST political system on Earth until you consider all of the other ones... BUT we can do better, if only we could start thinking with our minds rather than thinking with our emotional connections to bravado spewed by professional speech writers...

PEACE...
m...



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 08:20 AM
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D'oh!

NO! I don't want to be labeled "independant"... that label is another factor of the game being played. It assumes I should be picking one "side" over the other... and since I haven't, a lable of "independant" is assgined until I do!

blah!

I refuse the game! I'm not "independant". I don't look at people based on their affiliation to a "side"... I look at what they stand for. That's not "independant" that's logical.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 08:32 AM
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This is an excellent post William, and so eloquently written. I agree with you whole heartedly. Most of America falls somewhere in the center. It's the insane members of our society that back politicans by logo instead of content.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 09:50 AM
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Its is too late for centrism. Toolate for being lukewarm on the issues.

There is only one way to respond to these repugnants. The way I do it b/c that is the only thing they understand. We tried the other way---compromise, civil discourse. Every repugnant took that as a sign of weakness, literally calling liberals, "sissies."

So, we say, "Ok, so its like that, huh? Come get some."

And we get belligerent ARMED WITH THE TRUTH.

So, since all of the instruments of democracy (all the governmental branches, the press) have been hijacked by these repugnant thugs, we have to do what we can to save this country before its too late



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 09:55 AM
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Wow, when William speaks, he speaks.

Well said skeptical overlord.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Colonel
Its is too late for centrism. Toolate for being lukewarm on the issues.

It looks as though it's too late for you!

You're playing their game. You too easily fall for their rhetoric, calling centrism lukewarm, when in reality is logical. Centrism doesn't waste time with the petty in-fighting of the players, but the actual problems and solutions.

Your indoctrinated response to centrism is to call it compromise, which it is not. It's problem-solution oriented, avoiding focus on which political theology has the better solution, and just simply looking at the right solution.

Compromise is for sissies. The right solution for the problem takes logic and trashing your political compass.

[Edited on 13-11-2003 by William]



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by William

Originally posted by Colonel
Its is too late for centrism. Toolate for being lukewarm on the issues.

It looks as though it's too late for you!

You're playing their game. You too easily fall for their rhetoric, calling centrism lukewarm, when in reality is logical. Centrism doesn't waste time with the petty in-fighting of the players, but the actual problems and solutions.

Your indoctrinated response to centrism is to call it compromise, which it is not. It's problem-solution oriented, avoiding focus on which political theology has the better solution, and just simply looking at the right solution.

Compromise is for sissies. The right solution for the problem takes logic and trashing your political compass.

[Edited on 13-11-2003 by William]


I am not Falling for their rhetoric and who are THEY anyway. I agree with the spirit of comprmise and problem solving. However, the repugnants don't.

It's either they're way or no way. "You're either with us or against us." That is how they think and you cannot reason with someone like that.

So, I am against them.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Colonel
I am not Falling for their rhetoric and who are THEY anyway. I agree with the spirit of comprmise and problem solving. However, the repugnants don't.

It's either they're way or no way. "You're either with us or against us." That is how they think and you cannot reason with someone like that.

So, I am against them.

Republicans don't agree to comprimise? That's a bit of a generalization there, isn't it? In fact this whole post is one big generalization. How would you feel if I said liberals/dems always lie, and that they have no political platform except to bash the other party?

Colonel, it seems you have the 'with us or against us/your way or no way' attitude. I haven't seen much comprimising on your part. How shall we reason with you?



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by joehayner
[Republicans don't agree to comprimise?

No, and they subjugate the democratic process.
That's a bit of a generalization there, isn't it?

No, its not. It started with Gingrich's shutdown of the government over the budget.
How would you feel if I said liberals/dems always lie,
and that they have no political platform except to bash the other party?

I would say that you were a lying repugnant.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by ColonelIt's either they're way or no way. "You're either with us or against us." That is how they think and you cannot reason with someone like that.

And how is this any different from what you've been saying? Both sides spew the "our way is the best way" rhetoric ad nauseam. All it does is shift focus and discussion form the problem, to party X blaming party Y (insert either party).

You've fallen so deeply down the extreme liberal rabbit hole, you're blind to the fact that you're using the same arguments you hate about the repugnants.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by William

Originally posted by ColonelIt's either they're way or no way. "You're either with us or against us." That is how they think and you cannot reason with someone like that.

And how is this any different from what you've been saying? Both sides spew the "our way is the best way" rhetoric ad nauseam. All it does is shift focus and discussion form the problem, to party X blaming party Y (insert either party).

You've fallen so deeply down the extreme liberal rabbit hole, you're blind to the fact that you're using the same arguments you hate about the repugnants.


Our way has been proven the right way---just look at the past 8 years of the FORMER adminsitration.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by ColonelOur way has been proven the right way---just look at the past 8 years of the FORMER adminsitration.

I've already explained that the previous Clinton administration was the happy recipient of a wonderful spike in the cycles of history. A spike that was predicted, and completely independent of political influence (since the 30-year cycle has been repeating since the industrial revolution).

A solid read on these cycles of history is "Generations" by Neil Howe (great and interesting guy). (Amazon Link)

History is your guide to the present and future, not the present. The IT bubble economy that Clinton rode was a combination of inevitable forces related to the growth of personal computing, and gigantic IT spending in preventing the Y2K problem. Our current economic down-turn is directly related to mistakes made during the economic bubble years... should we blame Clinton for those mistakes? No, they were societal, and a predicted result of the bubble.

Another predicted result of the bubble-bust was war... should we blame Bush for the current war culture? No, it's the cycle of history he's been given. We can blame him plenty for how he responded to it, but it's not his doing.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Colonel

Originally posted by joehayner
[Republicans don't agree to comprimise?

No, and they subjugate the democratic process.
That's a bit of a generalization there, isn't it?

No, its not. It started with Gingrich's shutdown of the government over the budget.
How would you feel if I said liberals/dems always lie,
and that they have no political platform except to bash the other party?

I would say that you were a lying repugnant.




I nearly laughed my ass off when I read this!!! Although it is no laughing matter, it is very true.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 01:02 PM
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Woo! Neat to see William gettin' down and dirty in the Pit...



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by WilliamI've already explained that the previous Clinton administration was the happy recipient of a wonderful spike in the cycles of history. A spike that was predicted, and completely independent of political influence (since the 30-year cycle has been repeating since the industrial revolution).

I guess when presented with logic and facts, it's hard for the Colonel to respond with heated venom and ire.

Come on Colonel... now that my sleevs are rolled up and I'm in the pit... I wanted to get down and dirty! Where's your angry retort?



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by William

Originally posted by WilliamI've already explained that the previous Clinton administration was the happy recipient of a wonderful spike in the cycles of history. A spike that was predicted, and completely independent of political influence (since the 30-year cycle has been repeating since the industrial revolution).

I guess when presented with logic and facts, it's hard for the Colonel to respond with heated venom and ire.

Come on Colonel... now that my sleevs are rolled up and I'm in the pit... I wanted to get down and dirty! Where's your angry retort?


YOu haven't explained anything. You just quoted some book which I have yet to persuse b/c I'm working. ANd its hard for me to repsond with venom and ire if yoo agree with me.

Didn't yuo say this?

"Well is refreshing to see that even though the Colonel is now the man, he's still full of vitriol.

Here's a lightning bolt... I agree with....what the Colonel said..."



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Colonel ANd its hard for me to repsond with venom and ire if yoo agree with me.

That's it? You didn't notice that I also said everything you said also applies to you and your demorats?

Don't be afraid Colonel... give me your best shot (poking chin out) right here... g'head.





posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 01:24 PM
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Now I see why Colonel was made a mod. William wanted to take him on without being accused of being "the man" putting him down.


It all makes sense now
.



posted on Nov, 13 2003 @ 01:25 PM
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THe Democrats are not guilty of stealing elections, subverting the democratic process, overtly and covertly preaching racism, homphobia, religious intolerance, inciting wars worldwide for monetary gain, or neglecting national security.

Your work is cut out for you, wannabe repugnant.





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