Freedom to Fascism in America - Vote fascist in 2008

It seems to me that the elitist republicans and democrats have lost touch with America's national fascist heritage and don't really seem to care about our national soviernty.

They just think it's about the money (Ironic huh)

The fasces, the fascist movement's symbol.

Fasces (a plurale tantum, from the Latin word fascis, meaning bundle[1]) symbolise summary power and jurisdiction, or "strength through unity."[2]

The traditional Roman fasces consisted of a bundle of birch rods tied together with a red ribbon as a cylinder around an axe. The symbolism is that whilst each independent rod is fragile, as a bundle they are strong.

Numerous governments and other authorities have used the image of the fasces as a symbol of power since the end of the Roman Empire. Italian fascism, which derives its name from the fasces, arguably used this symbolism the most in the 20th century. However, unlike for example the swastika, the fasces have avoided the stigma associated with fascist symbolism, and many authorities continue to display them.

en.wikipedia.org...

Roman "Fasces" on the wall behind the Speaker's Podium US House of Representatives chamber, United States Capitol.

The Fasces on a US dime.

At the Lincoln Memorial, Washington DC, Lincoln's seat of state bears the fasces on the fronts of its arms.

www.prisonplanet.com...

The fasces lictoriae ("bundles of the lictors") (in Italian, fascio littorio) symbolised power and authority (imperium) in ancient Rome.

Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (519 BC) was an ancient Roman political figure, serving as consul in 460 BC and Roman dictator in 458 BC and 439 BC.

Cincinnatus was viewed by later historians as one of the heroes of early Rome and as a model of Roman virtue and simplicity. ... an example of good leadership, service to the public good, and the virtue of modesty.

"With one hand he returns the fasces, symbol of power as appointed dictator of Rome. His other hand holds the plow, as he resumes the life of a citizen and farmer." — A statue of Cincinnatus in Cincinnati, Ohio.

George Washington, General of the American Revolution and the first President of the United States, was considered a latter-day Cincinnatus

en.wikipedia.org...

Excellent movie - Freedom to Fascism 1.5 hrs long

video.google.com

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Anyone famialiar with the The John Birch Society?

www.jbs.org...

In a fascist America the federal reserve goes bye, bye and so does all of our foreign debt. Kind of like a national bankruptcy. As a bonus we regain our national soviernty and fend off the internationalists for abit longer. We implement our version of the New World Order instead of Rome's version of the New World Order.



In a chapter 13 bankruptcy We (the people) reorganize our debts to better suit the needs of the people of the nation. In a chapter 11 bankruptcy We (the people) completely nullify all debts and start over from scratch.

Which would you prefer?


[edit on 8-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]


Mod Edit: Link format edited. Please review this post.

[edit on 11-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

THE best movie i've seen this year. We all need to suck it up,wake up,and realize that the country we THOUGHT we were is no more. I'm always talking/bringing up the income tax issue,but it's one of the worst lies we've been made to believe.

The worst part is that we just go around thinking we are supposed to give up our money that we worked for. Not to mention the money taken from your income tax goes toward paying the interest on the national debt.....nothing useful.

Yet in a sick/morbid way we are getting exactly what we deserve. The USA as whole,not as a people have done many,many wrongs. I believe in karma/what goes around comes around,whatever. If you look at all the things we've done to our own people,and people around the world then we are either due for,or are already experiencing the bad times in store for us.

I'm still on the bridge on this issue of the NWO world goverment thing, I saw the movie freedom to fascism but i have yet to see a smoking gun so to speak that would prove to me beyond a doubt that it is time for resistance.

What bothers me more though is the fact that so many people believe the government is responcible for 9/11 (i don't believe so) yet i see no one organizing to do anything about it. If I thought without a doubt that the goverment was responcible for 9/11 or that they were actively trying to take over the world than i know i would be ready to join a revolution but i still don't see things this way.

Infact In Nothing We Trust you are the only person i have seen thus far that's advocating action to the problems they see. I've always felt that the loss of the second amendment would be the point of no return, and time for revolution. However, it's bad public relations to call American hertiage Fascist, even though we borrowed a lot of our priciples from Roman government among others and you may be correct most people associate fascism to hitler's Nazi Goverment and while that may not be true fascism the average person see's things this way and those are the people you should be trying to reach.

Originally posted by JackJuice
Infact In Nothing We Trust you are the only person i have seen thus far that's advocating action to the problems they see.

Remember tank man from Tiananmen square?

How many people do you see in the picture?



[edit on 8-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]

@ In nothing we trust


True, but if someone must be sacrificed to start the wheel turning i recommend we send in the hippies first.

Mod Note: Trim Those Quotes - Please Review this link

[edit on 11-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

@ JackJuice

The American Eagle on the Great Seal - "Prepared in War or in Peace."

The final Great Seal design specifies: The American bald Eagle holding in his right talon an Olive branch, and in his left a bundle of thirteen arrows.

"The Olive branch and arrows denote the power of peace & war which is exclusively vested in Congress."

In heraldry, the symbol in a figure's right hand has more importance than the one in its left hand. All dies of the Great Seal have shown the eagle facing the olive branch on its right side – further emphasizing the power of peace.

greatseal.com...

Mod Note: Trim Those Quotes - Please Review this link

[edit on 11-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by JackJuice
However, it's bad public relations to call American hertiage Fascist, even though we borrowed a lot of our priciples from Roman government among others and you may be correct most people associate fascism to hitler's Nazi Goverment and while that may not be true fascism the average person see's things this way and those are the people you should be trying to reach.

You only have to look at the array of Americans that supported German and Italian Fascism before the U.S.A.'s entry into WWII to see that America not only admired the classic Roman Fascism but also it's 20th century inheritors.

Some of the primary and more famous Americans and companies that were involved with the fascist regimes of Europe are: William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy (JFK's father), Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon (head of Alcoa, banker, and Secretary of Treasury), DuPont, General Motors, Standard Oil (now Exxon), Ford, ITT, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Prescott Bush, National City Bank, and General Electric.

Link

And we can't forget about GWB's grandaddy's contribution to the Nazi Party:

"The Bush family fortune came from the Third Reich."
-John Loftus, former US Justice Dept. Nazi War Crimes investigator and President of the Florida Holocaust Museum

Link

Smedley Darlington Butler blew the whistle on these would-be dictators, but I fear it was to no avail.

This committee received evidence from Maj. Gen. Smedley D. Butler (retired), twice decorated by the Congress of the United States. He testified before the committee as to conversations with one Gerald C. MacGuire in which the latter is alleged to have suggested the formation of a fascist army under the leadership of General Butler (p. 8-114 D.C. 6 II).
MacGuire denied these allegations under oath, but your committee was able to verify all the pertinent statements made by General Butler, with the exception of the direct statement suggesting the creation of the organization. This, however, was corroborated in the correspondence of MacGuire with his principal, Robert Sterling Clark, of New York City, while MacGuire was abroad studying the various forms of veterans' organizations of Fascist character (p. 111 D.C. 6 II).

Link

The Rise of American Fascism



[edit on 10-11-2006 by Beelzebubba]

Originally posted by Beelzebubba
You only have to look at the array of Americans that supported German and Italian Fascism before the U.S.A.'s entry into WWII to see that America not only admired the classic Roman Fascism but also it's 20th century inheritors.

Some of the primary and more famous Americans and companies that were involved with the fascist regimes of Europe are: William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy (JFK's father), Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon (head of Alcoa, banker, and Secretary of Treasury), DuPont, General Motors, Standard Oil (now Exxon), Ford, ITT, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Prescott Bush, National City Bank, and General Electric.

Interesting website - I just found it.

The Destruction of America!

After years of study, we have become convinced that there is an internationalist plot to create a one world government and destroy American sovereignty. The Internationalists behind this plot are working in secrecy. Why? Because they know that if too many Americans wake up and learn the truth about what has been happening to our nation, and if a large number of Americans found out who the enemy really is, and if they found out how the enemy is doing his work, then these patriotic Americans would rise up and destroy those who are behind this diabolical plot. -

www.apfn.org...

[edit on 10-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]

GREAT MOVIE. I agree that the america is a fake democracy

posted by Beelzebubba
...Americans that supported German and Italian Fascism before the U.S.A.'s entry into WWII to see that America not only admired the classic Roman Fascism but also it's 20th century inheritors.

Some of the primary and more famous Americans and companies that were involved with the fascist regimes of Europe are: William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy (JFK's father), Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon (head of Alcoa, banker, and Secretary of Treasury), DuPont, General Motors, Standard Oil (now Exxon), Ford, ITT, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Prescott Bush, National City Bank, and General Electric.

FASCINATING! But outrageous - the most stupid thread I've ever seen.

Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

If you do, it then makes me think twice - and sick. The kind of ignorance you exhibit, you only get away with because of a stupidity common to Bluff city, that glorious city where FASCINATION rules.

Go learn something outside your own bellybottom. Learn some history, maybe the origine of your own anscestors, they probably left for America because their way (of thinking, believing) and whatever manner they had to sustain themselves wasn't welcomed where they came from. Most likely they immigrated to escape from being the scum, that you now in your imagined superiority are trying to but in blame for all your problems. Truely FASCINATING.

You got fascism already, as your list of "heroes" so clearly shows. Actually nothing more than a list of some of the real scums from which your present trouble originates. Through their tricks and dealings they brought it on you. Note the grandfather of your present scum in power are among them.

Disgraceful.

Your founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw this thread. But don't worry they turn nowhere, they are stonedead. To have any glue what it's all about, you would have to had been born in Europe 60 years ago.

As you are not, I wish for you COMMON SENSE. Read Tom Paine before you read MEIN KAMPF.

Take a look around, watch the nazis run your town! FASCINATING! eh?

Originally posted by Beelzebubba

You only have to look at the array of Americans that supported German and Italian Fascism before the U.S.A.'s entry into WWII to see that America not only admired the classic Roman Fascism but also it's 20th century inheritors.

Some of the primary and more famous Americans and companies that were involved with the fascist regimes of Europe are: William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy (JFK's father), Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon (head of Alcoa, banker, and Secretary of Treasury), DuPont, General Motors, Standard Oil (now Exxon), Ford, ITT, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Prescott Bush, National City Bank, and General Electric.

Link

[edit on 10-11-2006 by Beelzebubba]

It's easy to admire something your ignorant of. I liken this to those that admire communism with little to no understanding of it. The Nazi fascism like communism might look good on paper but in practice it never works. These systems have no checks and balances on power. The people that admired european fascism probably knew little about what was really going on on the ground. I'm sure none of those people admired it the day they made public the death camps.

Originally posted by JackJuice
It's easy to admire something your ignorant of. I liken this to those that admire communism with little to no understanding of it. The Nazi fascism like communism might look good on paper but in practice it never works. These systems have no checks and balances on power. The people that admired european fascism probably knew little about what was really going on on the ground.

Fascism is just rupublicism. Power in America is held by the few dictators who bind together for strength. Our unwillingness to let a dictator come to power is out of the fear that he won't relinquish control. What America needs is a good dictator who can set things straight.

This is why the people's heros such as the Roman general Cincinnatus, Washington, and Lincoln are so admirered. They did what needed to be done and then they stepped down from power.

Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (519 BC) was an ancient Roman political figure, serving as consul in 460 BC and Roman dictator in 458 BC and 439 BC.

"With one hand he returns the fasces, symbol of power as appointed dictator of Rome. His other hand holds the plow, as he resumes the life of a citizen and farmer." — A statue of Cincinnatus in Cincinnati, Ohio.



Bush has done a wonderful job. His job was to throw a wrench into the engine of the titanic.



[edit on 11-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Fascism is just rupublicism. Power in America is held by the few dictators who bind together for strength. Our unwillingness to let a dictator come to power is out of the fear that he won't relinquish control. What America needs is a good dictator who can set things straight.

This is why the people's heros such as the Roman general Cincinnatus, Washington, and Lincoln are so admirered. They did what needed to be done and then they stepped down from power.

Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (519 BC) was an ancient Roman political figure, serving as consul in 460 BC and Roman dictator in 458 BC and 439 BC.

"With one hand he returns the fasces, symbol of power as appointed dictator of Rome. His other hand holds the plow, as he resumes the life of a citizen and farmer." — A statue of Cincinnatus in Cincinnati, Ohio.

[edit on 11-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]

The last thing this country needs is a Dictator, the entire reason of having an executive branch was to give us the few good things that come from having a dictator without having all of the negatives. Of course having a President comes with its own problems but it also has oversight.

Plus i think we have seen enough about Cincinnatus and i know exactly who he is and what he did. While admirable Men cannot be trusted with that absolute power, for every example of a good dictator I can give you ten examples of bad ones. The fact remains that we cannot trust man and since you seem to be so fond of quoting external sources i will sum up my opinion by quoting one of my own.

Federalist Papeer #51 by James Madison.

If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.

www.constitution.org...

Let me also remind you that Government or, in the case of what you are advocating, more government is not the answer. It is infact Government that is the problem.

The way I see it your arguement that we need a dictator that will give up power in my eyes is null and void because i would trust no man with such power.

Edited because i forgot the URL

[edit on 11/11/2006 by JackJuice]

Originally posted by JackJuice
It's easy to admire something your ignorant of. I liken this to those that admire communism with little to no understanding of it. The Nazi fascism like communism might look good on paper but in practice it never works. These systems have no checks and balances on power.

For one thing I am no supporter of Fascism. If it existed in my country today, I would probably be one of those sent to the camps.

I was merely pointing out the fact that America has supported Fascism in the past and covertly admires it to this day.

The people that admired european fascism probably knew little about what was really going on on the ground. I'm sure none of those people admired it the day they made public the death camps.

I'm not so sure of that. The grafting of roughly 4000 Nazi's into the American Intelligence and science programs only goes to show that the Nuremberg Trials were only for show.

*Arthur Rudolph, chief operations director at Nordhausen, where 20,000 slave labourers died producing V-2 missiles. Led the team which built the Saturn V rocket. Described as "100 per cent Nazi, dangerous type".

*Kurt Debus, rocket launch specialist, another SS officer. His report stated: "He should be interned as a menace to the security of the Allied Forces."

*Hubertus Strughold, later called "the father of space medicine", designed Nasa's on-board life-support systems. Some of his subordinates conducted human "experiments" at Dachau and Auschwitz, where inmates were frozen and put into low-pressure chambers, often dying in the process.

Project Paperclip

If you had read all of my post you would see that I am no supporter of Fascism.

Originally posted by Beelzebubba Smedley Darlington Butler blew the whistle on these would-be dictators, but I fear it was to no avail.

Before attacking people for their ignorance be sure to understand the context in which their post was made.

Originally posted by Beelzebubba

For one thing I am no supporter of Fascism. If it existed in my country today, I would probably be one of those sent to the camps.

I was merely pointing out the fact that America has supported Fascism in the past and covertly admires it to this day.

The people that admired european fascism probably knew little about what was really going on on the ground. I'm sure none of those people admired it the day they made public the death camps.

I'm not so sure of that. The grafting of roughly 4000 Nazi's into the American Intelligence and science programs only goes to show that the Nuremberg Trials were only for show.

Before attacking people for their ignorance be sure to understand the context in which their post was made.

It was clear to me that you did not support fascism, infact you gave little of your own personal opinion. Therefore the people i was calling ignorant were the "Americans" that as you said supported european fascism. Yourself not included, I thought i made that clear but if not my apologies.

That said, I don't think using Nazi Intelligence and scientists in America was necessarily because the government admired their politics but more of our leaders using good scientists and experienced inteligence officers to serve their own American purposes. We already know that there were a few Americans that were Nazi sympathizers but I'm betting the majority of those that made the decisions about bring those former Nazi's here were doing so out of self interest for their technology and to use against the Russians.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Fascism is just rupublicism.

Fascism is not republicanism. Its a different system. Mussolini and Franco weren't republicans, they were fascists.

What America needs is a good dictator who can set things straight.

This was a valid political-theory argument, in the lead up to World War II. WWII settled the issue, the 'leader-system' failed, utterly. The multi-ethnic capitalist states with representative liberal governments won. The 'leader-system' got the trains to run on time, but wrecked the rest of the country.

This is why the people's heros such as the Roman general Cincinnatus, Washington, and Lincoln are so admirered. They did what needed to be done and then they stepped down from power.

....They weren't fascists.

"With one hand he returns the fasces, symbol of power as appointed dictator of Rome.

The fasces does not represent the dictator. It represents the state, its a bundle of rods, the individual rods represent the various aspects of the nation, bound together in the red cloth to create the state itself, the axe, which isn't required, simply represents that the state, not the dictator, has absolute power over life and death, and it alone, not individual people or power-brokers.
The roman position of dictator was given to an individual for a set period of time with wide lattitudes in terms of power. It was a consititutional office, the modern dictators are entirely outside of the consitutitonal system, they are revolutionaries (whether reactionary or radical).


You've gone through a lot of posting here, but I don't think that your position is actually clear. What are you recommending, when you say that we should 'vote fascist'?

beezelbubba
to see that America not only admired the classic Roman Fascism

There is nothing horribly wrong with the roman system. I wouldn't recommend it for today, but then again I wouldn't recommend their slave based and localised economy for today either. WHen the founders looked to rome for a model, they were looking at a very good model. Similarly, they looked to Sparta for inspiration, rather than the oligarchies or the democracies.

but also it's 20th century inheritors.

True enough. Hitler was Time's "Man of the Year". The 'leader-system' is, I beleive, what americans have liked about fascism, the so called 'cult of personality'. That our problems are so complex and terrible, and that we shouldn't compromise in order to solve our problems, that we should just find someone that is brilliant and capable, and let him correct things, run the country, etc. Thats allways been a popular idea. I disagree with it, but clearly, people on all sides tend to want that. Rerpresentative politics or parliamentary politics aren't especially exciting for most people, and they dont' produce quick solid results, so people want a 'hero' a 'leader' (which , after all, is what the title 'fuhrer' meant anyway).
Even today, people don't look to any particular politics to run the country, they look to a leader, whether its Bush or Obama, etc.

People think that, for example, a committee will not be able to finish a task on time or properly, but a commanding leader, he can oversee things and get them done efficiently and with great quality.

Indeed, just look at the title 'emperor', its from 'imperator', 'commander', the same root as the grammatical tense 'imperative', 'commanding'. Even 'dictator', today we think of it as a person that took power. The dictator simply 'dictates', like a person dictates his words to a dictaphone or a secretary. The dictator dictates the actions of the state, he makes a decision, and sets it into motion. People like that, they've allways liked that.

I disagree with it as a form of governance, to be clear.

Well put Nygdan, and I'm glad you brought up sparta as well. Infact our multi chambered government today was partly based off of the two chamber democracy the spartans employed. Funny to think that American Democracy and European Fascism were built off of many of the same Historical Lessons yet the conclusions were entirely different. Thanks goodness our founding fathers were geniuses.

[edit on 11/11/2006 by JackJuice]

Originally posted by Nygdan
The fasces does not represent the dictator. It represents the state, its a bundle of rods, the individual rods represent the various aspects of the nation, bound together in the red cloth to create the state itself, the axe, which isn't required, simply represents that the state, not the dictator, has absolute power over life and death, and it alone, not individual people or power-brokers.

The roman position of dictator was given to an individual for a set period of time with wide lattitudes in terms of power. It was a consititutional office, the modern dictators are entirely outside of the consitutitonal system, they are revolutionaries (whether reactionary or radical).

I disagree.

The axe handle represents the dictator and the rods of the state give the dictator strength. Together they are unbreakable. What we need is a tough dictator who can inspire the loyalty of the people and everyone within the government.

The state is the people, just in case you didn't know.

What are you recommending, when you say that we should 'vote fascist'?

Exactly that.

Our present course is leading us off of a cliff.

Our present state of emergency requires a leader who has come from a humble background, someone who is loyal to the constitution, someone who has earned thier position, someone who has vision, someone who can inspire loyalty. We need someone from the military to stand up and take over and then give up power once the job is completed. Congress is not capable or willing to handle the problems facing this country.

The people need a hero who will return us to a constitutional democracy.

The international bankers know this and they are attempting to stop that from happening by classifying anyone who defends the constitution as a domestic terrorist. The international bankers are the threat not the people of the United States of America.

----
Watch this

4:03 minute mark in the movie

"... that country must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe ..."

The Federal Reserve
www.youtube.com...

All we want is to declare national bankruptcy and a fresh start. They want to destroy our country and take our freedom. They want to put you in prison.

[edit on 11-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Here's the words of a man "who has come from a humble background", one I think you will approve.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

So what's the problem?
Corporatism, like you never had it before, is what you have in U.S. today.

Ask the Carlyle Group or your vice, Cheney. He knows, his modest share in Haliburton increased in value from $241,498 to over $8 million. In 2005 alone.

See! - that's corporatism at work.

But, please don't bring down the bankers. Corporations need them for their business. By the way they are quite often among the corporate owners.

Happy now?

Wish you luck, and take my advice, don't mix things.



[edit on 12-11-2006 by khunmoon]

Originally posted by khunmoon
Here's the words of a man "who has come from a humble background", one I think you will approve.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

So what's the problem?
Corporatism, like you never had it before, is what you have in U.S. today.

Ask the Carlyle Group or your vice, Cheney. He knows, his modest share in Haliburton increased in value from $241,498 to over $8 million. In 2005 alone.

See! - that's corporatism at work.

You didn't read the entire article.

Mussolini was talking about national corporatism not individual corporate entities. In fascist Italy all corporations co-operated with and were a part of the state, for the benifit of the entire people. Our present problem arises from individual corporations who have bought the government for thier own benifit. See the difference?

Our corporations are not banding together for the strength and the good of the people. THey are banding together for THIER own good. THat's just called GREED.

At one time individual people bought government bonds and corporate bonds and such. THey became a part of the system making it stronger. Now that the national savings rate has dropped into the negative. People no longer have a vested interest in these entities. In addition, people have switched to credit cards if they need extra money instead of thier savings account.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

It is unlikely that Mussolini ever made this statement because it contradicts most of the other writing he did on the subject of corporatism and corporations. When Mussolini wrote about corporatism, he was not writing about modern commercial corporations. He was writing about a form of vertical syndicalist corporatism based on early guilds.

Where the quote comes from remains a mystery, and while it is possible Mussolini said it someplace at some time, a number of researchers have been unable to find it after months of research.

www.publiceye.org...

"…(The state) is not simply a mechanism which limits the sphere of the supposed liberties of the individual…" & "…Neither has the Fascist conception of authority anything in common with that of a police ridden State…" but rather clearly connoting "…Far from crushing the individual, the Fascist State multiplies his energies, just as in a regiment a soldier is not diminished but multiplied by the number of his fellow soldiers…"

Corporatism is a form of class collaboration put forward as an alternative to class conflict

Under fascism in Italy, business owners, employees, trades-people, professionals, and other economic classes were organized into 22 guilds, or associations, known as "corporations" according to their industries, and these groups were given representation in a legislative body known as the Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni.

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 12-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]