What exactly are the masons objectives here?

I'm just trying to figure you guys out. You seem to always deny any corruption or wrong doing in government. Do you people believe the conspiracy theory that 19 hijackers were able to evade norad and attack america?

Originally posted by kriegott
I'm just trying to figure you guys out. You seem to always deny any corruption or wrong doing in government. Do you people believe the conspiracy theory that 19 hijackers were able to evade norad and attack america?

What's with the "you people"? Are you always this rude?

Freemasons are not a homogenous mass. Masons hold as wide a range of opinion as non-masons. You might just as well ask whether Christians believe it, or whether Ohio State fans believe it. Sheesh!

... and, for the record, it's not a theory. It actually happened!!!

lol. I bet you still think Oswald was the lonegunman too.

Speaking of which Lonegunmen Pilot Episode is 9/11 but before. And Operation Northwoods even has a section that talks about switching real passenger planes with remote ones.

Seriously. What gives 9/11 away is the fact that Andrews airforce base is a 5 minute plane right from the Pentagon and yet no aircraft were flying around the nerve center of the american military an hour after the first tower.

Watch this 27 year CIA vet

www.informationclearinghouse.info...





[edit on 7-11-2006 by kriegott]

Originally posted by kriegott
lol. I bet you still think Oswald was the lonegunman too.

Snotty retorts sure are a popular way of saying absolutely nothing. How about some common courtesy instead?

Speaking of which Lonegunmen Pilot Episode is 9/11 but before. And Operation Northwoods even has a section that talks about switching real passenger planes with remote ones.
Seriously. What gives 9/11 away is the fact that Andrews airforce base is a 5 minute plane right from the Pentagon and yet no aircraft were flying around the nerve center of the american military an hour after the first tower.

All of which has WHAT to do with the topic? (The topic being the Freemasonic Fraternity, yet again) [sigh]

Watch this 27 year CIA vet
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

I'll pass unless it's on topic. Let me know, mmm-k?

You have confused me Kriegott, The title of your thread and the question posed within have nothing to do with each other, and as such i will attempt to answer them both in turn

Q-1: What exactly are the masons objectives here?
A: The masons on ATS (Which i am not one of, i have said it before, but it needs to be repeated from time to time), are here in an attempt to curb and debunk rampant anti-mason hysteria by those who happen across an anti-mason webpage or a copy of one of david icke's book and belive everything they read therein before giving any serious investigation to what they have read before posting wild accusations here

Q-2: You seem to always deny any corruption or wrong doing in government. Do you people believe the conspiracy theory that 19 hijackers were able to evade norad and attack america?
A: Most of the people here, mason or otherwise, are not quick to jump on a conspiracy without substantial proof, and that means more then just the odd webpage, interview or book by someone who could be of questionable movites.

Case in point, Micheal Moore. Mr Moore has made a very nice living slamming the bush family, and while the things that he has said may, or maynot be true.. anyone that knows anything about Mr Moore knows that he has had a long association with the bush family. In Moore's first documentary "Roger and Me", his camera man was one of G.W. Bush's first cousins... this was before any of the bush's had come to hold elected office (other then george Sr being vice president).

And now, years later.. he has some rampant beef with the bush family. It stands to reason that he had some falling out with the Bushs, and therefor anything that he presents about them comes with it the poison of grudge. He has a personal beef with the bushs and nothing he says about them can be trusted, because he will not hesitate to sling as much mud as he can at them

This is just my example, but what about all the whistle blowers, the former FBI and CIA operatives and agents that now, no longer with their respective agencies, suddenly come foward with these accusations of horrible wrong doings. It is fair to suggest that atleast half of them were disgruntled with their former agencies, and even if some, or even all of what they have to say is true.. you simply can not give them the credibilty that they might deserve because you know that they bear a grudge and it could sway them in their accusations.

now that i have stated this, i return to your title and the question posed within this thread.. they have nothing to do with each other, and the question posed belongs in the political and/or 9/11 forums

If you guys want proof of Kennedy being offed by conspiring parties all you have to really realize is the rifle used by Oswald was notorius for being the weakest rifle in military history. It is commonly known as the most humane because it's so weak that it saved more lives then taking.

That and even in the words of a Navy Seal (fmr Gov. J Ventura) he says it's a very difficult shot.

The chances of success would have been minimal so to offset that there would have had to be at least one other shooter.

Look into the investigation for yourself and it's just as bad as 9/11. the spent shell casing were unusually and perfectly lined up in Oswalds nest, a fair amount of people investigating the case died under mysterious circumstances, the list of inconsistencies goes on.

Ray McGovern is in no way a disgruntled ret'd employee. He's a true patriot of the rarest kind. You look at his career profile and he was one of the best analysts for the CIA and incredibly loyal too. He did his part for the country and everyone should respect that.

As for anti Masonry well with the huge volume of people who are suspicous of it that in itself speaks volumes. Who can here can really deny that Masonry isn't used by people to take short cuts and even cheat their way on easy street.

One other thing that really concerns me is Masonry in Communist Cuba and China. These countries are brutal regimes with awful humanrights track records and most of the most influencial business leaders of those countries take part in Masonry. And the Organization allows it to happen.

Industrialists and international bankers propped up Hitler. Without their support Hitler would have died an artist. It's somewhat similar.

Originally posted by kriegott
You seem to always deny any corruption or wrong doing in government.

Show me one quote, just one where the Masonic members of ATS have denied the possibility that there could be corruption in government. Guess what? You can't do it, because, like many others who come here, you spout rubbish without being able to back it up with information/quotes/facts.

I have even read their addmitance that on the odd occasion, people of indecent and immoral character have lied about themselves, and found their way into the Masonic fraternity.

What people don't seem to realise is that the actions of one person do not, have not, and will never define the group/race/religion on the whole.

Deny Ignorance, don't spread it.

kriegott stop by here and check it out. I can tell you I have proof that masons are not what they say they are. Appak am I really next in line really got me shaken DUDE!



profile.myspace.com...

profile.myspace.com...

The next website is great. It gets them going so bad the masons have tried to shut it down. Why because it's the truth.

freemasonrywatch.org...

Does that corruption automatically spring from Freemasonry? Last time I looked,it was a declared Christian who holds the seat of the Presidency,not a Freemason.

[edit on 8-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by soundaddicted
[snip-numerous off-topic lines]

As for anti Masonry well with the huge volume of people who are suspicous of it that in itself speaks volumes.

Conversely there are volumes of people who are NOT suspicious of it. That, too, speaks volumes. Where do we go from there? Perhaps we would INVESTIGATE Freemasonry, rather than SPECULATE.

Who can here can really deny that Masonry isn't used by people to take short cuts and even cheat their way on easy street.

Many people misuse MANY organizations to do that. Misuse of Freemasonry by an individual (who is told expressly NOT to in the very FIRST (Entered Apprentice) Degree of Freemasonry. "neither is it to be used for the furtherance of one's ulterior motives" (Ritual of the E.A. Degree)

One other thing that really concerns me is Masonry in Communist Cuba and China. These countries are brutal regimes with awful humanrights track records and most of the most influencial business leaders of those countries take part in Masonry. And the Organization allows it to happen.

Interestingly when Masonic Lodges meet in Cuba, the Cuban State Police are there...and they're NOT Masons. You see, the Cubans don't like free-thinkers either.

Industrialists and international bankers propped up Hitler.

Absolutely. And Hitler MURDERED Freemasons. He didn't like 'em either. They thought for themselves. His form of government cannot abide that sort of thing. Neither could Mussolini's.

Without their support Hitler would have died an artist. It's somewhat similar.

I fail to see the connection. Please explain.

Originally posted by soundaddicted
One other thing that really concerns me is Masonry in Communist Cuba and China. These countries are brutal regimes with awful humanrights track records and most of the most influencial business leaders of those countries take part in Masonry. And the Organization allows it to happen.

Please find below a list of all the regular masonic lodges that meet in China...
























[edit to include a couple that I missed out ]

[edit on 11/8/06 by Trinityman]

Originally posted by soundaddicted


One other thing that really concerns me is Masonry in Communist Cuba and China. These countries are brutal regimes with awful humanrights track records and most of the most influencial business leaders of those countries take part in Masonry. And the Organization allows it to happen.

This isn't exactly true. For starters, Freemasonry is not legal in the Peoples Republic of China. The Grand Lodge of China exists in exile in Taiwan.

Cuba is a rather different story. Masonry has been illegal there for most of the regime's existence, but was legalized only in recent years, as the Cuban government has wished to seem more tolerant of religious beliefs and diversity.

Nevertheless, the fraternity is always under close scrutiny on the island, and members of the Communist Party are forbidden to join under penalty of expulsion of the party.

I'm not aware of any "influential business leaders" in Cuba who are Freemasons...indeed, private business constitutes capitalism, which is (at least theoretically) illegal in Cuba.

Having been in Cuba, I'd venture that one Fidel succumbs to whatever flavour of cancer is afflicting him, entreprenurial business will floursish in Cuba. My experience there was that the most educated people were the tours guides and others who had contact with tourists.