Is God dead?

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
even Jesus had a job-a carpenter.

was jesus a carpenter?

www.kencollins.com...

I hear that historically wood was scarce in the region.

www.robotwisdom.com...

don't really know too much conflicting information.

Any body have the original bible at hand? The unedited version that is. by that I mean all the gospels that were rejected in the first compilation.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by surrender_dorothy]

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
I always thought that one of the messages Jesus was trying to give was to stay away from organized religion and that the only way to know God was to have him truely in your heart. To have a personal relationship with God.

Thats why I believe modern Christianity and Christianity it's self has got it all wrong. We shouldn't have evangelists, we shouldn't have preachers, or the pope, nor gigantic churches that spend more money on their foux-sad(pun intended)than on helping the community. No more passing the collection plate around at church unless an armored car rolles up shortly afterward taking the donations to a verifiable cherity. Pastors and preachers need to go get jobs, and give back to the community whole heartedly in their services, even Jesus had a job-a carpenter. Work and be productive but always keep the message at heart, to do otherwise is an indulgence-which is another issue Jesus brought up about the organized religions of the time. None of these people have a relationship any closer to God than you or I. And the only way to commune with God in actuallity is to go within ones self and be open to precieving Gods insight.

Jesus was trying to tell us this, and did so in many different ways. I am suprised that the mass christian population has never really understood what he was trying to impart on us. But Jesus himself commented on how the average folk just don't really listen to deeply when he spoke. The last step of spiritual maturity, which would be to think and feel for ones self, not follow blind dogma is what Jesus was trying to impart on us. Some people need to go to church and talk to a pastor to experience god. But, Jesus was more about going out into a field to view the flowers, learn about god through his works, not by what some other not any closer to the source people had to say about it. In fact Jesus was arguing that such dogmatism resulted in making you more aloof and less in tune with God.

Why do i feel like i wrote about this before, i may have done. Its not bad to go to a Church as its good to have someone who can read from the Bible if people happen to be illiterate, maybe not so much today or Blind or just to help build a community of like minded people its a bonus. The Church are the people not the Building, but because everything is expensive to run Churches they need some money to stay open anyway or give to charity. But I think open ground teaching is good and making the whole Church thing a Business is not what God wanted, but it has its uses, any building to spread the word is good or maintain it, at the end of the day we have to keep God within us he does not live in a Church made of stone unless your faith is strong like a rock too.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by The time lord]

Thanks Speaker!! Very much appreciated.

I don't think god is dead. I think what's dying out is our older dogmatic beliefs about how God works. We need to adapt to our modern life and the increased spiritual maturity that goes along with knowledge. We are developing a more personal relqationship with God as a collective. Each of us will and should have unique relationships with the creative force. The flairing up of ultra conservative/dogmatic evangelists and the sort are actually just part of the normal human response to change in conciousness. They are clinging to a sinking ship, and not even God is going to save them. For they need to save themselves by moving to a more personal relationship with God. They are not being the dynamic spiritual creatures that god made us to be. In actuallity they are really hampering their own growth and pushing god out of the way unknowingly to create more of the comfort they get from the blinders that they wear. People should go take a walk through the woods or a garden. Be open and more in the now, like an open book. Let things come to you, an understanding will coellese into a stronger more wholistic undertanding of God, being dogmatic is not being open to God it's just narrowing the bandwidth he's got to talk to you.

Wonderful replies people, I'm enjoying reading all your ideas on the matter... Bass, offhanded question...Do you believe in a personality attributed to the creative force? That is another question I had thought of making a seperate thread for.

To be honest i can't say for sure 100% that Jesus was a carpenter. It's been said many times about him though. Whether or not he was indeed a carpenter is mute. It's an example put out there to demonstrate more of his principals. He wanted to demonstrate that there was a need for everybody to be humble and contribute to society, and that even though he was Holy he was by no means above the standards of everybody else, he too must remain humble and in service to fellow man, it's critical for creating harmony.

Although on a side note, it's a desert so wood will be in limited supply, but Lebanon was renouned for it's Ceder forests. They still required wood for many purposes. And the Romans had no problem getting enough wood to make thousands of crosses. I'm sure the region did what most do when a resource is not available...Trade with neighbors for it. The region was and still is one of mankinds main trade routes, and it was one of our oldest and well established too.

The point is that Jesus chose to or was protayed to be carpenter becuase it's a noble job where you basically work for the benifit of others and not for yourself. It helped to reinforce Humblness and demonstrated that just cause you have a great relationship with god doesn't mean you should be building huge houses to worship him in. He was trying to lead by example.

Jedi,

I'm not sure if God had a personality in the way we would understand it. It's a great question and could definantly be turned into a great thread.

Personally I think his personallity is so complex that it incorprates a little bit of everybodys personallity. God is in everything after all so it would make sense that everything (God) would reflect back. A giant super personality if you will that is almost nuetral (from our perspective) for it is so balanced. What do you think?

Originally posted by MasterJedi
I was gonna pose the question of how one is to determine not only that He exists, but that all that was written about him, was truly divinely inspired?

Now you're getting into some real interesting ground. I'll give you an honest answer. You can find a lot of writings and discussions that seem to indicate that that there is not God, and you can find a lot of interesting discussion on proof that there is a God. Your mind will see-saw back and forth on which side to take. It's almost as if the sides are balanced out perfectly. We see the world and universe. It's diversity, and complexity. It can't be an accident right? Then we scratch our heads trying to figure out why God doesn't show himself. We see the creation but where is the creator? Since he seems to be missing, perhaps Darwin was right. This goes on forever.

The arguments are balanced perfectly. Almost too perfectly. So much so that I'm suspicious why the odds are so even. What' I've grown to believe is that the evolutionary arguments are the results of cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive Dissonance
in laymen's terms, it is the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts at the same time. The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions.

We want to believe in God because there is good evidence that he exists. If finding a perfectly cut slab of rock on the moon would prove alien life, is human life less complex. (See The 2001 ODYSSEY - an odyssey of the intellect) Why do we resist this notion? Most likely because people are uncomfortable with the acceptance of a higher life-form than man. Why doesn't God tip the scales in his favor? Maybe he wants us to make the final decision, so he stays out of the picture unless called on. I honestly don't know why but it seem that way. I wish God would call once a month or send a Christmas card just as a reminder, but he doesn't.

Skipping past that. Let's say that you do believe in a God. How do we know that the Bible is the correct version? We look at several key areas. Archeology, fulfilled prophecy, and fluidity. This is way beyond the scope of what I can discuss here. May I suggest further reading on the subject?

Bible Exposition

Feel free to browse around the rest of the site, espically the theology section. I must warn you that this site is biased towards Christianity and that the topics are deep and many. You'll have a hard time leaving the site if you actually venture in there.

all good post, but, here is my opinion.

god is not dead. people are dead. god is not outdate. people are changing.

god does not change, people do. and when we come to question all that is god, it is because we have moved away from him. this is what happens with the church over an expanded amount of time. people say, "but i realy want this", or "its not realy that bad". so the church votes, and they adopt, or banish a rule that fits thier needs. but, god has never changed. this is what jesus taught.

look to god. trust, and love in god, and you shall want for nothing.

I think you're going to see this get put to the BTS forum for religion... (no conspiracy angle)...

So what do you think...Is God dead...and if so, are we better off?

Suppose that depends on who you ask... If not dead, seems he's at least been on one long vacation...(around 2000 years). Of course, if you then ask the creationists, one of God's days is like a million years, so if he's got a day off, guess we've got a while to go....

As the world matures, we let go of past superstitions and opt for more logical explanations. Not to say there isn't a lot of mystery left in the Universe, there certainly is... But, a sentient diety behind it all just seems to be less plausible with each new discovery, and each new question.

As long as we remain the only sentient being known to us, I imagine there will always be a "God" of sorts...but who knows, we may soon find others out there as we take our interstellar footsteps. We aren't in the oldest part of the Universe, so there are good odds other such beings have come (and gone maybe)... Once our "special" status (i.e. only sentient) is revoked, I imagine we'll find less roles for a "God" to play in our beliefs.....

Personally, I don't think there's a magic yes/no between sentience and non-sentience....more of a gradation than a yes/no. I've seen animals sit and puzzle things out. They may not use words or logic, but they use something more than instinct....and that something is likely the seed of sentience.

Are we better off?

Yes and No. Personally, I liked Christmas better when I believed in Santa, so guess it's all in the perception. To be honest, I never wanted to walk away from faith. I love the ritual, the false sense of security, the humanocentrism, etc. But, the more I learned, the less I could accept it as an explanation.

Originally posted by The time lord
The chess game is moving in that direction till everyone will be so confused and anti -Chirst like that the move he can take the pawns away with him the better the defeat, a bit like suicide bombing the souls of people.

I don't plan on being confused - so far so good, I might add....by no means do I know much at all - but what I do know is not confusing or troubling.

Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, Surely God in thee; and none else, no God.

Verily thou a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together makers of idols.

Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. ~Isaiah 45:14-17

God is not outside of men or found apart from men - as long as men live, God lives.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I think you're going to see this get put to the BTS forum for religion...

(no conspiracy angle)...

As the world matures, we let go of past superstitions and opt for more logical explanations. Not to say there isn't a lot of mystery left in the Universe, there certainly is... But, a sentient diety behind it all just seems to be less plausible with each new discovery, and each new question.

im sorry super mod, but i gota take issue with this.
you say, "as the world matures", but, in my opinion this is the world moving away from god. and we dont let go of "superstitions", our logics make it harder to believe in what we believe. god does not live in logics. god could be sumed up into one word, "love". and as any logical person would agree, love does not make sense.

you know, when you look out at the wind blowing the trees, and they all dance, as if to the same song, and you get that feeling inside. that is god. its like he said, you've looked, and i have shown you myself.
but, a logical person would say, its just wind, and that feeling, its just a cascade of different chemicals in your brain designed to produce that feeling you just had.

me? i say its god, and love.

Is god dead? I think a more appropriate question would be is god dead to us. Is the concept something that we are growing out of as a species? Will we behaive ourselves only when we believe a parent is watching or are we grown enough to take responsibility for ourselves? I would like to believe the later, but I fear, as a whole, that we still clutch to our mother's apron to tell what we should do as a species.

Originally posted by Jonna
Is god dead? I think a more appropriate question would be is god dead to us.

Fredrich Nietszche is the one who coined the phrase "God is dead." Jonna, you have summed up what he was alluding to in one sentence. People say that Nietszche was an atheist. Ummmm, he certainly wasn't in the conventional sense. He was trying to get across, the fact that to modern day society, "God is dead."

Gazrok,by the way, one day is not a "million" years with God. It's a thousand years with God.

God not dead - I had a good long chat with him and St Michael last night.

Yep thats right - I lay down, take a feww deep breaths, say a few prayers for the needy, and I start to feel a warm glow around my face. I don't open my eyes 'cause the lights too bright, but then they step out of the light and take a pew on the ground. They sit, chat, and answer any thing and every thing I have to ask - stupid questions and all.

Think im mad? well, my wifes seen him and them too - in fact, it was just last week we prayed in the dark together, and felt and saw the light.

He's not dead, peeps are just deaf to his voice these days thats all.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
God not dead - I had a good long chat with him and St Michael last night.


He's not dead, peeps are just deaf to his voice these days thats all.

Again,I don't think anyone is actually implying that "God is dead" per se. What the question is related to is that as far as society goes is the concept of God a devoid topic. I do't think that it is,but some may argue otherwise.

god is not dead the devil is just stronger.

God isn't dead, he lives in faith and spirituality from the hearts of millions.



Belief in something, surely creates something.

I appreciate everyones responses, I'm more looking at how God plays a part in todays society. I guess the question should have been more, Is God dead to us?

Does God still matter on a day-to-day basis in our lives and does he still care about us? Why so quiet over last 2000 yrs or so? Has he moved on to a new world in which he is starting over? Has the rapture come and gone and this is the world left to wallow in empty ideals and bankrupt morality?

Do we as a society based on Christianity owe it to ourselves to make a movement directed more in the serving of God? Should we legislate morality?

Just some questions to keep the ball rolling.

Originally posted by MasterJedi
Does God still matter on a day-to-day basis in our lives and does he still care about us? Why so quiet over last 2000 yrs or so? Has he moved on to a new world in which he is starting over? Has the rapture come and gone and this is the world left to wallow in empty ideals and bankrupt morality?

I have actually heard the theory that the "rapture" has already occurred and we are all just too blind to realize it. The theory states that those who thought they were good enough to be raptured were just fooling themselves.

However, being one who doesn't believe in a "rapture," certainly not a pre-tribulational one, it's somewhat of a moot point for me.

As far as God forgetting about his creation,no,I don't think so.

I think this thread,at least from what you are saying,should follow more along the lines of what Nietszche tried to propose. The question is not,is God dead to the world,it is, is the world dead to God? That was actually Nietszhe's, although historically misunderstood, premise. When he said "God is dead," what he was implying is that as far as society is concerned God is a "dead" concept. I don't necessarily believe that,but I can see how one could come to that conclusion,even in Nietszche's time.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]