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U.S. Sealing its Borders?

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posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 10:56 AM
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No one ever thought it would happen here. But as of this coming Jan. 14, it will be much more difficult for American citizens to leave the U.S., for travel or to emigrate. Homeland Security will now be vetting every name on all passenger carriers, including air flights, boat, etc. If your name is on their list, you will not be able to leave - ever. How does your name get on this list? Nobody knows. What would your name on the list be for? Nobody knows and you won't be able to find out why you're on that list. How do you get your name off their list? You can't, there's no provision for it.

Now before some of you accuse me of overreacting, I have a very short story for you. Back in 1977, I was in the Soviet Union. Soviets at that time were basically not allowed out of the country. You could apply, but very, very few people were allowed out of the USSR, only top govt officials, scientists maybe and people such as ballet dancers, Moscow circus, and like that. Notice, they didn't have a law against it, they simply made it almost impossible for anyone to travel outside the borders.

I have figured for a long time now, that they probably would do something like this, effectively sealing the borders so U.S. citizens cannot leave. Now, also on that same visit to the USSR, I learned that Soviets were not allowed to travel more than 25 miles away from their home, they had to apply for permission which took at least 6 weeks, more like 6 months in actuality. Watch for a similar law to take effect here in the U.S. within the next couple years. They have already passed a law stating that by 2008, we will all have scannable I.D. cards.

Anyway, here's the article so you can decide for yourself what this means.


www.informationclearinghouse.info...

"The Department of Homeland Security proposed new rules back in July that would fundamentally undermine the right of American citizens to travel abroad. Public carriers--airlines, cruise lines, even fishing boats--will be required to submit the names of all passengers to Homeland Security prior to departure and to obtain permission from Homeland Security to board those passengers. These new rules will take effect January 14, 2007."


Text





posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 04:55 PM
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Good looking out, good that you posted this. However, I urge you not to be overly freaked out. Even if this law actually goes into effect and is enforced, it will not last.

Imagine how many people leave the country just on business alone during a single day. Thousands and thousands. Factor in those going to visit family, hundreds of thousands. And so on.

Such a policy will deal a serious blow to American economy, and has the potential to put airlines out of business. So this would be a definite move towards a Soviet-style society in which people just can't leave, yes, but it will also be costing millions to those who influence current policymakers, and as we know money is their bottom line.

Further, and this is paramount, Bush will (hopefully) be out in 2009, and it's a pretty fair assumption that the new administration will repeal several of these laws just to appease the public.

Of course, my entire argument is moot if we endure an election hijack (or dare I say it, another hijack?), but hopefully this doesn't happen. We will see.



posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 06:47 PM
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here's the link to the proposal:
hasbrouck.org...
(pdf file, so be careful)

i don't expect this to get very far. even if they do try it, expect a long drawn out court battle for this one.
on a side note, only two countries in recent history restricted their citizens from traveling freely: nazi Germany and soviet Russia.
i'm holding out hope for the US that this country doesn't take that route...

[edit on 5-11-2006 by karby]



posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 06:56 PM
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This will not pass, and in the slim chance it does, the people should not stand for it. Of course, there is a chance they may not even read the bill and simply sign it upon who it's been endorced by. The world - including the U.S. - should be free to everyone in my opinion. It's our world. To let some entity restrict where we can and cannot go is absurd.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 09:38 AM
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In a country where habeas corpus and posse comitatus have been effectively repealed, it wouldn't be surprising if they restricted travel as well.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 09:47 AM
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In a world where everyone hates Americans is this really that surprising. If I had my way about it, as sad as it may seem, we'd build a wall around this country and never let anyone into it!!
I am for strict border control,especially after 9/11.

As far as not letting anyone fly out,I think if a person wants to fly to another country and potentially risk their life, let them do it. The world makes me angrier everyday.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 09:51 AM
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Aaaaaaaaahhhh!!! Nobody loves Americans


Life is a bitch, get over it!

Seriously though, stop equating criticism of the US and it's policies (Government) with anti Americanism and a hatred of the American people. They are two completely different things.

Ever think that maybe it's the insular attitude, that nobody or nothing else matters if it's not American, that maybe causes some resentment?



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy

Ever think that maybe it's the insular attitude, that nobody or nothing else matters if it's not American, that maybe causes some resentment?


Boy,then you'd really hate us if we implemented my "wall" plan,eh?



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy
Ever think that maybe it's the insular attitude, that nobody or nothing else matters if it's not American, that maybe causes some resentment?


With a population of forty to fifty million non-citizens living within its borders, the USA is about as insular as a McDonald's would be handing out free hamburgers to all who enter it.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 09:59 AM
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No,all bull crap aside. I think this law,if passed, gives us reason for concern. I made the above comments kind of tongue in cheek. Although,I do think we need to do a better job in securing our borders.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
In a world where everyone hates Americans is this really that surprising. If I had my way about it, as sad as it may seem, we'd build a wall around this country and never let anyone into it!!
I am for strict border control,especially after 9/11.
[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]
[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]


This is exactly what the Soviet govt told Soviet citizens when they built the barbed wire fence around their country - that things would be so wonderful in the USSR that people from all over would want to come there to live, so they needed to build a fence around the USSR in order to keep those horrid immigrants out.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Senaden

With a population of forty to fifty million non-citizens living within its borders, the USA is about as insular as a McDonald's would be handing out free hamburgers to all who enter it.


How true that is. You can't even can't get past customs in England with a be-be gun,yet,in the supposed most powerful nation in the world,immigrants are crossing our borders like ants.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
In a world where everyone hates Americans is this really that surprising.


I don't believe that statement is true. But if it was, hrm.. would that really be the world's problem, or our problem? Seems like we would be pretty outnumbered, huh?


If I had my way about it, as sad as it may seem, we'd build a wall around this country and never let anyone into it!!
I am for strict border control,especially after 9/11.


Then I hope you have called your representatives and let them know. I think your idea is ridiculous and wouldn't work, but getting involved in your government and seeing how it doesn't work for you is always a welcome idea.



As far as not letting anyone fly out,I think if a person wants to fly to another country and potentially risk their life, let them do it. The world makes me angrier everyday.


Dramatic much? You potentially risk your life every day, flying to Amsterdam wouldn't make it much worse. Are you really angry, or simply scared?


Anyways. Being sealed into our country is something that I have thought about a lot lately. I was thinking about how we already have the "no fly" lists that puts in people that aren't a hazard to our nation. Now people can just hear about it, and say "oh well, that's a shame." But don't you see what has already happened? You think it's a shame, but you have accepted it.

Might I add, anti-American is not equivocable to policies set forth by the United States, so spare me the "anti-American" jibe. My resentment, and distaste for my country's foreign/domestic policy, is my right and my duty as an American citizen if I feel the policies are wrong. I can be against this government and still be an excellent citizen. I pay my taxes (that go towards things I disagree with), I vote (because I believe in our right to vote), I respect people for their difference (because even if they don't respect me, as an American, it is my duty to be the model of tolerance), and I await the day I am called to jury duty so that I can fulfill my obligation to try an alleged criminal by one of his/her own peers.

No where in the Constitution, nor the Bill of Rights, does it ever declare that I must follow blindly behind one administration, to be a good American. ever

Maybe Americans shouldn't be allowed to leave if they are going to separate themselves from the rest of the world.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:15 AM
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Good Grief!

This is not for "our protection" this is what Communist countries do, for Pete'
s sakes!!!


WTH is going on???

Maybe this will bring a few people around to realize that the oppression noose is tightning and you will more than likely not be "free" to travel anymore- First those on the "list" then no Americans will be allowed out.

Run for your lives.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:16 AM
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[

This is exactly what the Soviet govt told Soviet citizens when they built the barbed wire fence around their country - that things would be so wonderful in the USSR that people from all over would want to come there to live, so they needed to build a fence around the USSR in order to keep those horrid immigrants out.



I suppose then that you must believe that all of those thousands of people in marches down US streets waving Mexican flags shown on television were just some sorts of special rate tourist groups in the US for holiday.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:20 AM
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I suppose then that you must believe that all of those thousands of people in marches down US streets waving Mexican flags shown on television were just some sorts of special rate tourist groups in the US for holiday.


Bush don't care about immigrants, hell he signed the North American Union!! So it's not about immigrants, it's about dictatorship! If this pass, I suggest all people who are able to flee, FLEE!



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:21 AM
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Tommorow is elections and our chance to change this crap. I hope it does something, anything to stop this nonsense. I swear I think I woke up in the USSR. :shk:

THIS IS NOT FOR IMMIGRANTS PEOPLE! Why the hell would you have to check with DHS to LEAVE?!?!?!

[edit on 6-11-2006 by XphilesPhan]



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:22 AM
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dgtempe, this country was moving towards a socialist/communist government a long,long time before now. Are some of you just now waking up to it? It's too late now;it's in our laps.

I don't really think the U.S should isolate itself,but I do think we need a more stringent border plan.I also think that air travel should be monitored. I do not favor some of the methods they are using to implement these tasks, but I do think some of it has to be done.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe

Run for your lives.


Perhaps some foundation needs to be set up to facilitate the depatriation of all of those who wish to flee the US in terror.
Seeing the overall gutless and lazy reactions the populace has demonstated in trying to preserve their own lives and standard of living by controlling the number of foreigners present within its borders, I think a group dedicated to increasing the rate at which cowards give up their right to vote would be a most excellent thing.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Tommorow is elections and our chance to change this crap. I hope it does something, anything to stop this nonsense. I swear I think I woke up in the USSR. :shk:


If you think voting for any member of the two major political parties,Democrats or Republicans, is going to change anything,you are sadly mistaken.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



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