America's Agony

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
FACT: The American government and IT'S people should be printing it's OWN money.

If ANY of you can explain why this is not how things should be please explain in great detail why you feel this to be the case.

There's actually a pretty simple answer. if governments printed the money themselves, there would be nothing to stop they manipulating it artificially for political ends. e.g "vote for us, we'll lower your mortgage by 300 dollars a month!"

That's generally considered too dangerous, and destabilising. Back in the eighties, in the UK, the government DID have total control of the money supply. it resulted in a boom/bust economy, 15% interest rates, record unemployment and one of the greatet periods of social upheaval at the expense of those at the bottom of the economic heap the UK as seen since WWII..

.. so no, experience shows it's not really a good idea.

People want SUV's, HDTV and mcDonalds not world peace. They could care less. A Narcissistic nation is the parasite. However, There is the virus that is associated with the disease called Capitalism. Wal-Mart. They have banking, doctors, eyecare and cheap prescriptions, plus food and every other piece of Chinese plastic you can imagine.

Wal-Mart has singlehandley destroyed small business, destroyed American factories, made things so cheap that once they want to start raising prices, people will have no choice.

There are close to 1.8 million people who work for Walmart, and 100 million workers in the US. That means 1 in 100 people work for Wal-Mart????? They are also in China now, and spreading like a plague..

People do not notice what is going on around them, and do not care because they can sit at their computers, order everything onlinedon't need to have a real relationship, take pharmacuticals, update their myspace accounts and blogs and grow further in debt. Fretting about a credit score more than spending time with their kids or elderly parents. Selfishness has replaced patriotism and empathy.

Narcissism will be the death of America...

en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 6-11-2006 by esdad71]

There's actually a pretty simple answer. if governments printed the money themselves, there would be nothing to stop they manipulating it artificially for political ends. e.g "vote for us, we'll lower your mortgage by 300 dollars a month!"

"if governments printed the money themselves, there would be nothing to stop them manipulating it artificially for political ends"

Ok.. what's stopping the 'controlling forces' of the Federal Reserve bank from doing that very same thing?

Please answer.

BTW, you say 'government(s)'. How many governments in the world print their own money and how many don't?



[edit on 6-11-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
Ok.. what's stopping the 'controlling forces' of the Federal Reserve bank from doing that very same thing?

Please answer.

Not a lot, though since the board members, and the chairman, have long tenures, the extra level of "separation" should in theory slow down any attempt at politicizing the fed to the point where it becomes impractical, or at least difficult to do under hte public gaze. It's no different really to the appointing of Supreme court judges, and the arguements for and against such a system would be similar I guess. I make no claims as to whether it is a good system or not.. that's up to US citizens to decide.

nowthenlookhere

I make no claims as to whether it is a good system or not.. that's up to US citizens to decide.

Up to US citizens to decide? hehe.. GEEEZ.


OK.. I say AGAIN... OUR governemnt should be printing OUR money and all the checks and balances to be in place should ALSO be within our borders and sovereignty. PERIOD.

No one has 'really' explained why this should not be the case.


Oh, and BTW.. did the US citizens get to decide to have the "Federal Reserve Bank" start printing OUR money?

[edit on 6-11-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
BTW, you say 'government(s)'. How many governments in the world print their own money and how many don't?

That I couldn't tell you, though as I say the UK did, until Blair made the Bank of England independant. The EU, since it took the single currency, also as an "independant" central bank, similar to the Fed, though the nature of the EU, as a collection of separate states, makes thier system slightly different again.. Maybe Sminkey or Infinite can give better description of how the EU central bank works..

Certainly the global trend seems to be away from direct government control of the money supply, In fact I'm not sure if it isn't a requirement of the IMF/World Bank in many cases, but given the relative stabilty of the global markets and economy since the eighties, the move has been beneficial.

Oh, and BTW.. did the US citizens get to decide to have the "Federal Reserve Bank" start printing OUR money?

Well last time I checked the US WAS a democracy! If you don't like it, it's in your power, and no-one else's, to change it. All you need to do is persuade enough people that you have a better alternative.. and if it really IS seen as better by most people, the political support will follow.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by nowthenlookhere]

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere
[My own experience in the financial system has opened my eyes to that.... which is why I am so vociferous in debates such as these. With a little more undertanding of the system, far fewer people would be taken for a ride, lose their life savings, their pension, etc.. to a system that preys on their naivety.

Now then I checked out that link you posted very interesting indeed. Although it does not change my views at this point in time I will do more research into the matter for my own knowledge. In either case I find that both sides fail to produce any true evidence to support their claims. From a research perspective what documents exist that would clarify either end of this debate? I personally would like to see all the supporting evidence regarding the fed especially the documents regarding the organization, ownership, and audits.


It seems we agree on most points just not the who is in control part. Regardless of who is in control or not in control based on your above quote do you not think that a system that takes advantage of and PROMOTES naivety is a skewed system?

In regards to the discount cards the simple solution is not to have one so your purchases can not be tracked. The real problem remains the same though, it is just one step towards the monopolization of our freedom. Every time we turn around there is but another small piece of the puzzle being put together. The discount card is just one way to get people use to being tracked, debit cards are but another way to control and track the money system. Tell me is it fair that the bankers create a system that puts more money in their pockets. They create a debit/credit card and make it simple and easy for people to use. So simple and so safe that people have no choice to use it. As a business owner why do I have pay the bank for every transaction a person uses their card for in my place of business. Your agrument could be well you don't have to accept credit cards... Well thats fine and dandy if I could I would only accept gold and silver for purchases.. but they have skewed the system so badly no body hardly even carries cash around any more.

Without writing a book, we argue about all these pieces of the puzzle but many fail to see the forest for the trees. The bottom line remains the same there is a conspiracy to control the masses and it is real, If you see this then you can adjust your life accordingly. It's time that america wakes up and stops playing into the hands of the money changers.

Real freedom is living for yourself and not living for the bankers.

Global trends?

I hear what is being said but why should "global trends" dictate to the american people who prints our money?

This is another tough question and no one is really truly answering.

I'm sticking to my guns.. America, It's citizenry and IT'S government should be issuing it's 'own' money.



[edit on 6-11-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Think of the federal reserve as a sort of fail safe, a thin green line that is supposed to control how much is made so the value of the dollar is stable. It makes investing countries feel safer in investing in a country with a stable monetary system...it also is supposed to protect the american people from the devaluation of american dollars.

Or am I wrong?

As for governments who print their own money. Well I know that North Korea prints their own money and they also have a very nice side business printing our money.

www.findarticles.com...

Which goes straight back to a government that controls the printing of money can in fact devalue it by flooding the market with it...or other peoples currency.

SO is this what MM was talking about?

Spiderj

Edit to add:...this isn't going to be one of those threads that takes ten pages to blame the same group that always gets blamed are we?


[edit on 11/6/2006 by Spiderj]

SpiderJ

Think of the federal reserve as a sort of fail safe, a thin green line that is supposed to control how much is made so the value of the dollar is stable. It makes investing countries feel safer in investing in a country with a stable monetary system...it also is supposed to protect the american people from the devaluation of american dollars.

Why can't the American people and their government have their own fail safes and 'thin green lines'.. ?

Please.. do tell.

I don't know view, I'm just trying to help.

I would think it's sort of a way to make investors feel safer. They know that because we have checks and balances within our system that our government cant just wake up and decide to print a few hundred thousand extra hundred dollar bills.

It helps keep the dollar stable and makes investors feel warm and fuzzy...I guess.

Look, I have just enough in the bank to pay my bills and maybe go out for dinner a few times this month.

Don't look to me for a great deal of knowledge about the international banking system.

Though if you want to know how to make the perfect grilled cheese sandwich...I'm your guy.

Spiderj

Spider,

Grilled cheese sounds good right about now.

I hear you but I hope I also have made a few good points. I'll admit to being still wet behind the ears as far as all of this is concerned but from what I HAVE learned has disturbed me quite a bit.

The ability to print currency for any nation also comes with unprecedented power and we all need to be aware of this power and 'whoever' has any link to the control thereof.



[edit on 6-11-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

This post is not about me or any other member on ATS, the original post posed a number of questions. The more enlightened members here are all heading to the right answers.

Those who seek the answers but will not try themselves, they will never be enlightened, they doubt all that should be questioned. This post is about thinking for one's self, a search for knowledge and the truth. All have the capacity to do so if the desire it. Man has a natural thirst for knowledge, all great explorers, inventors etc. no one tought them, they embaked on a quest for knowledge and answers. People have allowed their minds to become blinded and controlled, but now there are those who wish to switch our minds off. To become unqestioning servants and slaves to the parasite.

You have made good points view, I for one am not completely sure on the topic, but again I suppose it's not why shouldn't we be allowed to print our own money but just sort of a better safe than sorry kind of system.

And to reply to MM, I don't think you can lump all those who want you to be straightforward as lazy or ignorant.

THis is an anonymous board, to trust the message you must trust the messenger and since nobody on here knows the people he/she converses wtih (for the most part), it's hard to judge the validity of a veiled statment when you don't know who you're really dealing with and what their world view truly is.

You cant trust the messenger and his motives when you have no idea who the messenger is.

IMO of course.

Spiderj

PS oh and view, the secret is thinly sliced tomatos and just a hint of some colemans spicy mustard...mix it with the butter before you grill.

Spiderj

Well MM..

Until you truly understand this scripture no one here will truly understand where I'm coming from but here goes':


Eph 6:12 For we wrestle NOT 'only' against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

'lamsa'

Like I said earlier.

The antichrist spirit is like a cancer that pervades not only the earth but our MINDS with the Church 'holding' it back. The parasite has influence in the Church itself!
(Read Jesus letter to the Church of Laodicia in Revelations)

antichrist spirit=ULTIMATE parasite in this world.

May God help us all when the head of it finally shows up.


I'm curious as to what YOUR answer to what this 'parasite' is MM.





[edit on 6-11-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

I got ya' Spider but 'who' determined that this 'system' was 'better safe than sorry'?

Isn't it up to the American people themselves to decide what's 'better safe than sorry'?

Thanks for the recipe.. Me gonna' try it.


[edit on 6-11-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

I believe we can both expect a thorough explanation from nowthenlookhere once he logs back on...hint hint...nowthen...a little help please?

Though feel free to ask me any grilling questions you may have.

Spiderj

I'm not going to attempt to turn this into a 'religious' debate but this is something that really resonates with what we are talking about. In the end, God points out the ultimate evil and tell us WHO and WHERE IT IS in Revelations:

Take a look:


Re 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Voice of the Bride Groom=Jesus
Voice of the Bride=Jesus' Church

It says in other places as well that God will take the church out of the way in the end and allow the beast (antichrist) 'full' power before Jesus HIMSELF shows up and ENDS him. Keep in mind the antichrist spirit is alive and well BEFORE the head shows up laying into place all of it's 'systems' and 'deceits'.

'in thee'=Thee = 'Mystery Babylon' (3rd iteration of babylon) who is the spawner of the antichrist.

Now for the juicy part:

This is what God says about the 'real' enemy, where they are and who they deceive..

"for thy MERCHANTS were the GREAT MEN OF THE EARTH; for by THY SORCERIES were ALL NATIONS DECEIVED. "


Well, "merchants" and "great men of the earth".

Corporations and their handlers come to mind.

I don't know about you guys but when I really understood this particular verse and realized the time frame of prophecy it really gave me chills.

Goes along with everything else I've been saying in this thread.




[edit on 6-11-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Originally posted by photobug
In either case I find that both sides fail to produce any true evidence to support their claims. From a research perspective what documents exist that would clarify either end of this debate? I personally would like to see all the supporting evidence regarding the fed especially the documents regarding the organization, ownership, and audits.

fair point.. I think I'll do a little mroe reseach and try do dig up some documentation. It might tiake a while since I'm busy with a few things right now, but I can see it would do some good.

It seems we agree on most points just not the who is in control part. Regardless of who is in control or not in control based on your above quote do you not think that a system that takes advantage of and PROMOTES naivety is a skewed system?

yes, absolutely. Naivety is definelty promoted, actively, by the financial services industry, and the body set up to regulate it, the SEC. Laws exist (in the US) to restrict anyone with less than $500k liquid assets from investing in some of the best investments. The tax laws, made by the rich, for the rich, exacerbate this. CNBC, Bloomberg et. al. are fonts of the most appalling, misleading drivel that ever passed iself off for "investment information". Your broker, your pension advisor, your mutual fund salesman, your gold-dealer, ALL exist primarily to take YOUR money.. and it's the institutionalized level of disinformation that allows so many people to fall for the same old tricks, over and over again. I don't think it's part of a central master plan though.. i think it's the result of many different people, all seeing that something works.

The good news is, it doesn't have to be that way. There is nothing intrinsic in the finacial markets that means people have to hand control of their savings and financial destiny so someone else. Those in the know don't ususally share the knowledge because

a) people don't ask
b) some "knowdedge" particularty relating to finacial markets, becomes less useful the more who know it.
c) talking about money is often a bit of a taboo for some people, and can make one unpopular.

The real problem remains the same though, it is just one step towards the monopolization of our freedom. Every time we turn around there is but another small piece of the puzzle being put together. The discount card is just one way to get people use to being tracked, debit cards are but another way to control and track the money system.

That i can agree with.. again I'm not sure how much of it is intentionally controlled, and how much is just(?) systemic. I'm certainly no fan of big brother though either.

Tell me is it fair that the bankers create a system that puts more money in their pockets. They create a debit/credit card and make it simple and easy for people to use. So simple and so safe that people have no choice to use it. As a business owner why do I have pay the bank for every transaction a person uses their card for in my place of business.

well, people DO have a choice (though a thread on "which has greater control on our subconcious, our concious mind, or advertising" might raise issues there..... the problem is people always tend to take the easy option.

Real freedom is living for yourself and not living for the bankers.

Now on this statement, I really couldn't agree more!

Real freedom is living for yourself and not living for the bankers.

Now then, I believe you agreed to this statement.

I also ask you this:

What happens when we DON'T have a choice but to live and submit to these 'bankers'?

You have to admit that our 'choices' shrink everyday and they have been shrinking for quite a long time now, greatly accelerated the last few years thanks to this war on 'terrorism'.



Re 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And he gives to all, small and great, the poor and those who have wealth, the free and those who are not free, a mark on their right hand or on their brows;

Re 13:17 And that NO MAN MIGHT BUY OR SELL, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


Substitue beast with 'bankers' and the first he with 'the bankers' and this verse will probably take on a whole new meaning for most of you.




[edit on 6-11-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]