Wow JamesG, have *you* been misled. This is going to be a long reply to quite a few posts...A lot has happened in this thread since I looked at it
last. I say this now in order to warn away those of you who have short attention spans.
And this, like everything else I've posted in this topic, is merely my own interpretation of how I see Life, The Universe & Everything...And can't
see how it adds up to 42 (yet).
It's merely one person's look at TWGSM (The Whole General Sort of Mish-mash).
Originally posted by JamesG
You seem to be overlooking something. While we were in eden, adam and eve knew nothing of good and evil, until satan talked eve into eating the apple
and she in turn talked adam into eating it as well, that we learned of good and evil.
Etc...I'm not going to copy the entire post...
For one thing, the Bible doesn't *specifiy* that the fruit was an apple...That's an invention of false teachings...Taking poetic license, so to
speak. The Bible merely uses the word "fruit". In this case, it could be the same as referring to "the fruits of one's labors".
If God didn't *want* us to have knowledge of good & evil, then why did He allow Satan the opportunity to convince Eve to take it? God punished Adam &
Eve for *disobedience*, not the learning of knowledge itself...Even though God *knew* beforehand that this is what would happen. So now God wants us
to use our knowledge of the difference between good & evil in order to find our way back to Him...Since we *can* make the choice, God *lets* us see
both sides so that we're *capable* of making an *informed choice*.
You have pointed out that Satan came from God too...Therefore God *created* evil as well. There are many examples in the Bible where God has commanded
acts of evil to be performed on people. God is the Source of All, yet you've been misled away from that simple truth.
Since God *knew* what was to happen, He gave us the ability to grow up & make our own mistakes to *learn better*...Just as human parents can't coddle
& protect their children for their *entire lives*, God gives us enough leeway for us to learn for ourselves...Sort of like the Cosmic College of Hard
Knocks. The best teacher, after all, is experience. God *tells* us the way to please Him, but He allows us to choose to follow what He says or
not...The same way a parent can teach a child, so God teaches us...But just like a parent who can't interfere *too much* without actually hurting the
child in the long run, God also treats His children the same. He knows that we'll be stronger if we learn how to do that on our own, just as the
child can grow up into a successful adult. Also, similar to a loving human parent, God wants us to grow up into somebody He can actually be proud of
when we go back to see Him at Home (Heaven). Again the human-parent simularity...If your child disobeyed you, wouldn't you punish your child? If you
told your child to stay out of the cookie jar but the kid went & snuck out a cookie, wouldn't you spank him even if you *knew* that he was going to
disobey & sneak out that cookie? By kicking us out of Eden (Which I believe is more of a "span of time" rather than an actual "place"), God was
giving us a "spanking" for taking that "cookie".
Yes, I know that I used a lot of *human-based* comparisons here, but it's the only real anaology I have to make my point in the simplest terms I can
Originally posted by FreeMason If you ask me, it seems there are two gods up there fighting over this creation....and neither has the
power to stop the other....or they'd have done so.
This sounds soooo much like the Persian religion of Zaroastism (sp?) & the "battle" between Ahura Mazda & (Oooooo! What was the name of the evil
side of this one? I forgot!).
Originally posted by FreeMason Math even...look at math, it is precise, predictable, god is in math if anywhere.
Hence sacred geometry.
That sounds like Pythagoras...
Originally posted by FreeMason Hah, if you'd just open your eyes to your very own scripture, you'd see that God is only TRYING to
dismiss the fact there are other gods
No, God has readily *admitted* to the existance of other gods...He simply doesn't want us to worship any of them without worshipping *Him as being
above them*. "Thou shalt not worship any other gods before Me."
Originally posted by FreeMason What does god have? Jews who hate muslims...muslims who hate christians...christians who hate
everybody...GOD HAS A BUNCH OF HIPPOCRITS...
Because these kinds of people use man-made religion, twist it around & perform Satan's works; They've lost their way to God. But then, God *knew*
that this would happen & He *does* intend to rescue us from it...In the fullness of time, when His children have grown up & learned enough to mature;
Unfortunately, some people will only learn & mature *after* being in Hell for a while (literal translation from scripture descibes "an age", however
long that's really supposed to be). Once *all* human souls have learned their lesson (which will include *knowing* each minute detail of every sin
they've commited in their lives so that they'll never be tempted to *repeat* them), God will bring us all Home (Heaven) & destroy Hell & those who
still haven't learned their lesson (Satan & his demon-followers).
Nope, scripture doesn't give any specific *timeframe* for this either...Those timeframes have been *conjectured* by the people who *think* they've
figured it out. The Bible *does* give some indications for that timeframe, but it's written in non-specific terms (Because the people who wrote those
prophecies didn't have the terminology, the *language*, to explain themselves properly). However, even the prophecies (Revelations) doesn't propose
any specific timeframe...Only a series of signs to look for. Anything more specific that that is mere conjecture...wrought by *people*.
Originally posted by FreeMason Science explains the HOW!!! and only the HOW!!!
God explains the WHY!!! and only the WHY!!!
This is why I follow *both* the "hows" from science & the "whys" from God...It's the only way to see the "whole picture" of existance
By seeking the "how" (if the seeking is done with the right attitude), then we may actually gain *some* insight of the "why"...For example, If you
take apart a radio, you can understand how it works. Once you understand how it works, you may be able to figure out why it was invented. The Bible
seems to describe God's "why He created it" in terms we can comprehend...As a parent loves, instructs (& punishes when gone astray) their own
children. Yeah, with the world the way it is now, we've still got a *lot* to learn...
Originally posted by JamesG The numbers are what they are by chance alone. It could've happened any which way and we wouldn't be here
now, yet we were lucky. Can you show irrefutable proof that the numbers add up to the need for some cosmic orginizer?
Okay, so what are the real chances that something as complex as the universe happened "by accident"? what's your numbers to support that the
universe came from nothing? Not even the most learned astrophysicists can figure that out. The odds must be (forgive me for this use of the term)
If science has already proven that there *can't* be "something from "nothing", then where did the initial creation of the universe come
from...Answer: God. I don't speak of God as an actual being or entity (It's been shown throughout history that men have always given a "human-like
form" to that which they make religions for)...I speak of God as The Creator, the One Who Is All. God has even described Himself as "I Am that I
Am", which is to mean that He *is*, literally, Everything (As I stated above...TWGSM).
Originally posted by JamesGJust because we have memories doesn't mean we HAVE to GO SOMEWHERE after death. It's purley chemical and
electrical in nature, not spiritual.
Then how do you explain the *reliable* reports of ghosts?...Granted, many such reports are faked & *proven* to be faked...But many reports can *not*
be proven false. So, if there is no soul or spirit, where do ghosts come from?
IMO, you only look at pieces of the "puzzle of reality" & try to force them into a picture of your own devising...Open up to the *totality* of
existence & look at *all* of the facts before you try to see the whole picture. Discuss what you have seen, but don't try to force your opinion of
what you're *not* looking at on us.
Originally posted by FreeMason If you take that all away, by death, amnesia, or other wise...you lose it, it never happend.
Actually, this is similar to the old "If a tree in a forest falls but no one hears it, does it actually fall"? Even if a person with amnesia can't
remember anything of life, there *are* still other people who can perceive what the amnesiac does...Therefore, their lives still exist. Even without a
direct outside perception of the amnesiac, the evidence of what he does still remains behind him; If he knocks a cup off of a table, others can later
see that cup on the floor.
No, there *is* something that exists beyond the physical Earth & universe...Something that we haven't been able to fully perceive or understand yet.
Merely because we haven't perceived it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
An example in Science: How many *billions* of years passed before we poor little humans developed the technology to perceive Infrared & Ultraviolet
wavelengths of light? Does this mean that it didn't exist before that time? No, it was always there, waiting for us to see it.
You have to be able to look at *everything* you see before you can even *begin* to piece the picture together. This is what I see FM trying to do, in
comparison to JamesG who chooses to wear blinders.
[Edited on 11-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]