Theory about Heaven and Hell

You seem to be overlooking something. While we were in eden, adam and eve knew nothing of good and evil, until satan talked eve into eating the apple and she in turn talked adam into eating it as well, that we learned of good and evil. This royally pissed god off and he punished the whole of mankind for discovering good and evil in the first place. If god wanted us to know about good and evil, why not let us know from the start so we wouldn't anger him and be punished from something that wasn't our fault in the first place? Since we knew of no good nor evil, just god, then how could we have known that eating the fruit was wrong? I know god said not to, but satan made a very good point when getting eve to, from that she saw no wrong on hers or adams part...

He is in turn responsable for the whole event taking place since he created EVERYTHING, this includes satan, since he see's all and know's all, he already knew the event WOULD happen, so why punnish all of mankind, including you and me for something adam and eve had no control over since god already ALLOWED the events following up to the first punnishable event to take place at all?

There is no logic in any if it...at all...

I always thought that Adam and Eve story was a big bunch of bunk....How can god give man rules to follow, but not a consience or concept of evil?

How can he not simply "unmake" the evil Satan did?

The adam and eve story is the achilles heel to the whole christian belief (and muslim) of god.

It is there where satan's TRUE power is shown, but all through out the rest of the bible satan is immediately dismissed as an imposter and nothing more, and that god will destroy him in time.

If you ask me, it seems there are two gods up there fighting over this creation....and neither has the power to stop the other....or they'd have done so.

Hah, if you'd just open your eyes to your very own scripture, you'd see that God is only TRYING to dismiss the fact there are other gods...he betrays himself subtley...but somewhere in the New Testament it seems he feels he has won....but now is the time of Revalations!!! SATAN IS RETURNING....and he brings an army. While God's churches lie in ruins....his people hate him for he has neglegted his duties....his "creations"...his own representatives himself have become immoral, and all he can do is point the finger at satan....but how?!

Satan has not been here through ALL of the new testament...he has gone! We have been ruled by ONE lord for nearly two millenea now....Satan is God's scape goat....

Ahh...I love the whole "Strife in the Heavens" myths...but I thought the church dismissed those ideas as pagan....so why is it they themselves believe it like the gospel?

Let us not forget the "all father" either....the TRUE creator of this almighty universe...he is exactly that...a creator, he doesn't interfer, he doesn't SAVE...he only creates...he does not even observe.

And his two lesser gods...have been fighting ever since the beginning...THE END IS NYE!!!! THE END IS NYE!!!!!!.....Satan is returning, and he brings an army!

What does god have? Jews who hate muslims...muslims who hate christians...christians who hate everybody...GOD HAS A BUNCH OF HIPPOCRITS...HE KNOWS THIS AND HIS FEEBLE ATEMPTS TO EITHER BRING THE WORLD BACK TO HIM OR SUBJUGATE IT HAVE FAILED...He's out of time, and has fled, fled like a drug lord to columbia....leaving us to be conquered by Satan!

Oh well...we have a new master now...life stinks, but what can we puny mortals do about it?

Sincerely,
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There are a few parts in the bible where god acknowledges the existance of other god's, but he claims to be above them...

There is no god, no satan, no creator of the universe... It went boom and the end will go crunch. Much more simple and easier to believe than all this religous nonsense... Also... Has ALOT more proof and evidence to back it up than ANY religous text in the whole world...

No...it won't go Crunch, it'll simply become very lonely, and very dark.

Now...as being a former athiest, I thought my religion didn't incorporate a god of any sort....(I invented through logic my own belief on how life works...and it's very logical ) but still...there has to be a god in the sense of an organizer....it is impossible....look at atoms...too organized to have just blasted out of nothingness...it is EASIER for nothing to have happend, rather then a GODLESS something to have happend.

Sincerely,
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F-M, how can you have actually read the Bible and understand so little of it? You seem to miss some big points along the way!

The bible is about interpretation, I simply take the bible literally, while christians confuse it and make it seem like God is the way they WANT him to be...which if you read the bible literally, is not the case.

Sincerely,
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Sounds like you turned to god for an easy explanation to the world around you...

The big bang is already a proven fact, all the observations/experiments fit the theory. Unfortunatley, scientists are still finding god a troublsome little loner who refuses to show himself...

Why do YOU think it's hard to believe atoms came from a big boom boom, yet find easy to believe an invisable magical little puke said abracadabra, "and there was light"??

Because I've been down your road, and unlike you I've been down it longer.

I don't think god is a magical puke going abbracadabra...I believe god IS what we see around us, it is purpose...it is the order of this universe. I highly doubt IT (god) has any concious awarness of us, nor any feelings.

But for example, atoms are WAY too complex to be formed by any natural means...and infact, the only thing that "changes" atoms is the core of a star, THAT'S how much power it takes....and still....atoms are not "created" naturally...they are there....that is final, where did they come from? That is the "god" we all seek.

I like to remind people.....

Science is the HOW, God is the WHY!

You seem to have confused the two and totally shunned the latter because of it.

Sincerely,
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Sincerely,
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Let's remember what the big bang started from... A tightly packed dense ball of energy...

E=mc2

Energy = mass * the speed of light (186,000mps) squared.

That right there solves the problem of where atoms 'came' from, and where they can 'go'...

The big bang itself was much more powerfull than a simple star...

And let's not forget ALL the EVIDENCE for the big bang and NONE for god...

No E=mc^2 doesn't solve how atoms came about....it only shows the relationship between Energy, mass and the speed of light constant.

Sincerely,
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e=mc2 shows that matter can be converted to energy and visa versa...

The big bang created was created from alot of energy in an expanding bubble much faster than the speed of light...

Doesn't take much to understand what happened next...

No it states that matter is energy and vice versa, it does not mean I can turn you into pure energy, or pure energy into matter, though it's theoretical.

It states that both are actually the same. Well, proportional to each other anyways.

And actually the big bang if you weren't so hot headed, you'd know didn't consist of only energy....

...The big bang is something called a Hyper-plasma gluon state...something they are VERY close at reproducing...it is all the free energy, all the matter (in hydrogen form and a little helium), all the dark matter, all dark energy, all anti-matter, rolled into a super-heated state at about 6 billion degrees or around there.

Sincerely,
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You can convert matter to energy and back...

I've already heard about the quark-gluon mass, unfortunatley, there is no definitive proof that this is what the condensed ball of energy was composed of, but I do believe, that quarks and gluons were the first 'particles' of matter to be created by the big bang, not that they were what it was composed of... Remember, we're still trying to 'see' that far back still, just quite haven't gotten there yet...

Matter and antimatter can convert each other into pure energy instantly upon contact.

I've also read of an experiment that used lasers to create matter from nothing but the energy of the lasers... I'll look this up for you and provide a link if I can find it. I don't remember it well, so I can't explain it well...

No that laser experiment you are talking about is creating the condition of the core of a star...using 60 1-terra-watt lasers.

As for anti-mater/matter converting to energy YES! they do...but this doesn't explain where MATTER and ANTI-MATTER came from....and why they did not negate themselves completely during the big bang.

Because you are discounting what is known...which is what was formed either before the big bang...or right after...withint a quadrillionth of a second, and that was EVERYTHING you see now...matter, anti-matter, blah blah.

You try to prove there is no god with science but you fail to show how anything came about at all...THAT is what science can't explain....WHY!!!!!!! Remember what I told you....you already seem to have forgotten it.

Science explains the HOW!!! and only the HOW!!!

God explains the WHY!!! and only the WHY!!!

Sadly too many christians try and have god explain the how...and too many athiest try and have the science explain the why...but if either were educated they'd clearly see that the two can't co-exist like that.

Sincerely,
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No, F-M, you don't take it literally, as a matter of fact, it is your lack of a personal relationship with Christ that keeps you from understanding what it is you don't even know you don't understand. As it says in the Bible, it is a mystery to you.
Somethings as elementary as why God gave Adam and Eve a tree that could not eat from, who Satan is and why God didn't erase him and the original mistakes and start over, demonstrate you do not understand Christianity and can certainly not tell me, a follower of Christ and one who has a personal relationship with the One who died for all, what is meant by the Bible or what Christianity is. At best, you have the writings of others who attempt to discredit the belief, and some reading of the book that will remain a mystery to you until the Holy Spirit gives you understanding.

Wow TC thanks for throwing off track a decent discussion with your Facist Religious Zeal....why don't you go back to killing and destroying buddhist, and spread the word of christ else where...you sicken me bible thrower!

It is because of people like you that atheism is becomming so popular, and taking away from the spirit of the world. The very soul of humanity is in parrel and all because your christ is the ONLY way...well man never should limit himself to one path, lest he find a mountain he can not cross.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 10-11-2002 by FreeMason]

There is no need to even ask why the universe was created. It never was created. To imply it was created is to imply there was a creator, when in fact, there is no creator, just the universe. Science explains, for the most part, how the universe came to be from a chain of events that have physical proofs of. What the universe does not show is the NEED for a creator. Nothing in this world shows any need of having to be created by a supior being...

LoL perhaps you have no concept of NOTHINGNESS????????????????????

I mean...look at it this way, you can not exist outside the universe...so there is NOTHING out side the universe...it is just nothingness...how can ANYTHING exist outside existance?

Well then...where did our existance come from? There was no matter, no energy...nothing.

Everything just all of a sudden....14 billion years ago, explode into being? WHY??? Well that is where "god" comes in...this creator, but I think of him more as an organizer, for he is also apart of existance, he in a sense is actually us, only we are individuals and he encompasses everything, this organizing factor of this universe...is what "created" it if you will.

Your trying to use science to say the universe just popped in from no where is foolish...it won't work, especially when you get into the higher sciences, such as chemistry and physics....that's where the whole thought of "nothing from something" goes out the window.

Math even...look at math, it is precise, predictable, god is in math if anywhere.
Hence sacred geometry.

Sincerely,
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Toltec

I know you have put in a lot of time and effort to write all that about Reincarnation, but and in reply to you I for one will only dismiss it all.

It does not teach, any where in the bible about reincarnation. Jesus never taught it nor did any of the apostles. I dont see it written anywhere that christians are to live with that belief.

I'm not interested in what other christians say or believe concerning Reincarnation. I am only interested in the teachings of Jesus and his apostles, And the word of God.

But I do challenge you. Forget what other people have said, If you can come up with a teaching in the bible that Jesus taught us to believe in Reincarnation then Maybe I will accept, But I don't think you have a chance to get this madness into The doctrine that Christ taught.

So I am afraid that even after all your hard typing my opinion is the same.

Reincarnation = mere demonic fantasy.

Originally posted by FreeMason
Wow TC thanks for throwing off track a decent discussion with your Facist Religious Zeal....why don't you go back to killing and destroying buddhist, and spread the word of christ else where...you sicken me bible thrower!

It is because of people like you that atheism is becomming so popular, and taking away from the spirit of the world. The very soul of humanity is in parrel and all because your christ is the ONLY way...well man never should limit himself to one path, lest he find a mountain he can not cross.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 10-11-2002 by FreeMason]

Thanks for throwing off your attempts to attack a belief that you no more understand than the man onthe moon, but feel the need to spit hatred as if it were candy.
Trust me, if it were a conversation relating to Christianity, which it was (don't tell me what the thread was, I can read and am used to your intellectual dishonesty), and you are a part of it, it wan't worth continuing anyway.
Killing the Budhists? Where do you get your ignorance. The lat I heard, the Christians were being killed of by the peeeeaceful monks in the Tibetan area. Your hatred for the Christian relationship causes you to spew nothing but acidic garbage and lies. What a shame you feel the need to be a carrier of rotting hate.