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Tell me about Islam & Christianity

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posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:28 PM
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Hello I just really wanted some good input about these two beliefs

I am not looking for one better than the other, but just detailed explanations of what they are about, an also the pathway to salvation through Islam, an or Christianity.

Thanks alot for anything guys




posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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Salvation is a bait and switch scheme. You are asking whether to join Primerica or Amway. Trust me. No religion provides you with any more benefit than believing you will get a benefit when you are really dead.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 12:24 AM
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In Islam, to summarize, those who do good in this life will recieve good in the afterlife, regardless of their faith.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 12:38 AM
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But there are bonuses if you kill a few infidels. So basically the same if you are Christian.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by Columbus
But there are bonuses if you kill a few infidels. So basically the same if you are Christian.


You can support this false argument by posting your proof then? The Quran does not command Muslims to kill infidels. Rather it only states that Muslims must keep peace towards others in the highest regards and only defend against being attacked, and never being the offender. If you're going to use the quote from the Quran where Muhammad was allowed to fight in self defence, against the pagans who were trying to kill the Muslims and assasinate him, as your "kill the infidels" argument, then don't bother misquoting.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 12:48 AM
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Proof is a "real world" thing. There is no proof in either the Quran or the Bible.

Consequently, Muslims and Christians believe what they will to be true and whatever their self-asserted authorities tell them regardless what their scriptures say.

Christians and Muslims are repeatedly challenged on their scriptures and they assert everything therein is open to interpretation. That is why some Christians believe in Creation and others accept Evolution. It's the interpretation that you prefer. No matter of facts whatsoever. And they will kill over they are so certain of their flimsy interpretation.

For best results, trust what they do not what they say.

That should teach you to believe there is proof in fiction.

Columbus



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by Columbus
Proof is a "real world" thing. There is no proof in either the Quran or the Bible.


Notice the proof I asked for is to back up your claim that Islam states that "there are bonuses if you kill a few infidel," and yet you completely ignored it. If the "proof" is not in the Quran, then don't claim Islam states it, with your false information.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by ragster
Hello I just really wanted some good input about these two beliefs

Christianity starts as an attempt to fufil the prophecies of the jewish religion, with jesus as messiah, but not as the militant-political messiah, rather as a spritual messiah. The movement spreads and the orthodoxic position becomes that jesus was the son of god himself, that man is stained with sin, and that beleif in jesus frees people from sin. Jesus will come back, according to the christians, at whcih time the dead will rise from the graves, evil will be defeated, and Jesus will rule as a King over all the earth, for a thousand years, and then the world comes to an end. People are judged, and the saved exist in paradise, while the unsaved, from all time, are either destroyed in a firey lake, or sent to hell permanently. The universe then comes to an end.
The major long term variation on orthodoxic christianity, of the type we see in Catholicism, greek orthodoxy, & protestantism, is sometimes called Gnostic Christianity. This seems to be a synthesis of orthodoxic christian ideas and classical greek philosophical ones. The basic message of the christian movement is that salvation must be attained by a person, that they do this, one way or another, through jesus, and the message from jesus is essentially a pacifistic one.
Islam is claimed to be revealed to Mohammed, an arab tribesman. He goes into a cave, sees a being of light, its the equivalent of the Angel Gabriel, and the angel dictates to mohammed a message, a history of the world and a perfected rules for worshiping God. The idea is that God spoke to the jews, and they did right by him, but eventually fell into error, the same happened with the christians, so now god was revealing a finalized religion that corrected all errors, and thus there is no more a need for any prophets from god. The basic message is that man must act properly, in accordance with god as revealed by the koran. Those that do, they quickly enter, upon death, paradise. Those that don't, they are purged of their sins and errors after death, and eventually also enter paradise, after being spiritually purified. Islam is a religion and also intened as a system of social governance. The main variation upon orthodoxic Sunni islam is Shia islam, where Saints and their cults are more popular. The Sunni/Shia split started as politics over who should lead the community (there was also a few other splits at the same time). Shia islam comes to ascendancy as Islam enters old persia. The muslims beleive that a figure will emerge at the end of days, called the Mahdi. HE will reform any errors that have accumulated and prepare the way for Jesus, whom the muslims beleive didn't die on the cross, and was wisked away to heaven directly. Jesus's return signals the end of the world. The Shia beleive that one of their big leaders, Mahdi Mohammed, never died, and went into 'occultation', at the end of the world, he will un-occult, and be the Mahdi.
A minor, yet interesting variant, are the Baha'i. Their founder claimed that the time of the Mahdi had arrived, and that he was basically the Mahdi, he then revealed the corrected islamic religion, which is the Baha'i religion.

Essentially, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and some other religions, are all sharing similar ideas that were prevalent in the places that they arose, such as the idea of a single god, the lists of prophets, sin and redemption, the dead rising, the messiah, Judgement Day, and the end of the world.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 01:29 AM
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Notice the proof I asked for is to back up your claim that Islam states that "there are bonuses if you kill a few infidel," and yet you completely ignored it. If the "proof" is not in the Quran, then don't claim Islam states it, with your false information.


I told you the "proof" is in their actions not their scriptures. Everyone knows this. It's implied. You can argue with a moderate Muslim who shows you the text of the Quran but we're not the ones who need the proof.

Prove it to the Fundamentalist Muslim and prove it to the Fundamentalist Christian.

We see you Kill in the Name of God, that's proof, and therefore that's what Christianity and Islam are about. It's been this way since the Canaanites were supposedly killed by the Hebrews.

As far as proof goes, the Canaanites are the first in a long tradition of genocide in teh Abramic faiths.

Don't ask for proof unless you are ready to accept it. Otherwise you are no different than a fundamentalist denying proof of evolution or the moons of Jupiter.

Columbus



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 01:48 AM
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Christianity starts as an attempt to fufil the prophecies of the jewish religion, with jesus as messiah, but not as the militant-political messiah, rather as a spritual messiah.

No, Jesus most likely started out as an Essene, kind of like Amish are today. They started the Baptism before the church existed. Jesus went into the towns to spread the mental disease virus of essendom.

People were desperate in those days. They were poor and had no healthcare and lived under the Roman Empire. Some rumors started about Jesus having healing powers. It was common in those days for most people to look for healers when they got sick and there were a lot of unscrupulous people around.

Jesus didn't appear unscrupulous, so rather than expose himself as a failed healer he moved from town to town and told people not to spread word of his name. He didn't become famous until much later.

He went to Jerusalem during Passover like a lot of Hebrews at the time. The temple was still there then. People traded there like a bazaar or flea market. That pissed off the fundamentalist streak in Jesus and he went nuts tipping tables over. That's where the fundamentalist crazy streak originates. They eat that section of the bible up.

The guys who run the temple are pissed by this because they make money from renting the traders tables and so they conspire to put a bag on Jesus.

Supposedly, one Judas guy turned Jesus in to the authorities. Jesus was put on your standard witch trial and executed.

Some of Jesus buds swiped his body. The Christians deny this, but of course they would, wouldn't they? They have a vested interest and just coincidentally no proof of ANY of this at all.

Even though there were apostles, Paul is the main one the most fundamentalists get their tripping. The articles of infection are in Paul's letters or Epistles. Why you need it, how you get it, etc. So really, Christianity is really Paulianity.

Paul was initially against Jesus, but after Jesus gone, his followers needed guidance, so unbeliever that he was, seeing an opportunity for power he snatched it up. Paul is where you get the Republican Supply-Side Fundamentalist Christian.

Everybody knows Jesus spoke and acted like a Commie Liberal. Read his freaking words!

After that, it gets really bad.

Columbus



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by Columbus
No, Jesus most likely started out as an Essene, kind of like Amish are today. [/quote[
Its debatable as to what sect he belonged to, if any. There were lots of jewish sects to choose from.

They started the Baptism before the church existed.

The idea of water leading to a new birth or a ritual cleansing pre-exists the essenes, even the jews in general.











Paul was initially against Jesus, but after Jesus gone, his followers needed guidance, so unbeliever that he was, seeing an opportunity for power he snatched it up.

The only evidence we have about paul is the writtings alleged to have been his, and the comments from the church fathers who knew the apostles. There is nothing that actually suggests paul was an unbeleiver.



Everybody knows Jesus spoke and acted like a Commie Liberal. Read his freaking words!

He told people to obey the temporal powers, and to sufffer if they need to, because the physical world is meaningless. I don't see how thats at all liberal, or conservative. Its a religious/philosophical idea. You are basically stating the he was a fraud, but there simply isn't eveidence for it, any more than there is evidence that Mohammed made up the whole 'angel gabriel revealed the koran to me'. Rather, it looks like they, at least, beleived it.
Whether they were insane, delusional, or whathave you, is another matter.
The apostles too, they don't seemed to have benefited much personally from their endeavours. Rather they seem, like many people invovled in a close, personal religious movement, to have been ferverent beleivers, not crass manipulators. The crass manipulation seems to have some in later.



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by ragster
also the pathway to salvation through Christianity.



In a nutshell, God is 100% Perfect and Holy. Mankind is not(look around). God wants to be with us, but we cannot make up for our sins. God, knows this and paid the penalty Himself that His own law requires on sin. A substitute sacrifice(Jesus) took the wrath that sin brings, so we don't have to. By trusting and believing that Jesus paid for your sin, you are forgiven and are now in part with God and someday will be fully in His presence.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by dbrandt]



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