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Do the Dead Talk to Each Other About How They Died?

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posted on Nov, 1 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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Forgive me for not reading the post before I respond. I'm hardcore and just can't change! lol (I'll read and respond to what you've written in a moment)

When I read the title of your post it made me realise that I haven't even gotten the ???, EVER of 'dead people' talking. Not once. Isn't that interesting! Now - crap. I think I'm about ready to try to explain some things that I don't have words for. I'll give it a go.

There are those that are different. Not so much in the way they look or act, but somehow you know they aren't the same as the others. They kind of watch, observe, almost as if they are there just to be near me and watch the interaction and my reactions and responces. Sometimes I even think they are there to make sure I don't interfear. But they are - not really interacting with ther person who I know is dead, but they know they are there... they are watching the interaction between me and that person. (not that I'd call it an 'interaction' really...

Also, the dead aren't 'alone', and yet I haven't ever gotten anything ... I don't know. I don't know how to explain this. It's like if many are trying to come through at one time - it's as if they are individualy all there at once.

This isn't working. I don't supose I can explain this. But - none the less, the title to your post brought me a 'realization'.


Oh - one more thing. The ones that are seemingly alone. They are the suicides and terribly ??? ones. Those ??? ones are the ones I think have not been saved - they are alone because they didn't choose to know thier creator while alive.

The 'talking' part. I've not one seen them speak. Not with movement of a mouth... but there is communication. I'll 'just know' what they want me to know. And sometimes it's not that they 'say' something, but there have been (on very rare occations) actual sounds I hear (I don't know if it's with my ears or not).




posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 07:58 AM
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Hi TrueAmerican,


Originally posted by TrueAmerican
That is an interesting ADC link Paul, thanks.
You know Paul, I'd be really interested to see your favorites list of metaphysical links. Now THAT's gotta be a trip. I was just reviewing a few of the threads you have authored. If that one of your predictions on 8/8/04 from the higher realms comes true (lordy forbid) then I suppose ADC's will become rampant.

I hope those predictions do not pan out. There is a method behind the madness of being a channel for that; spreading awareness about a probable bleak future does indeed help to prevent it from happening.


For example, there is the true story of the man who kept having reoccurring nightmares about him and his family drowning in icy waters. After a number of nights of this happening, he decided that enough was enough and canceled reservations for the family trip that was to take place on the maiden voyage of the ill-fated TITANIC.


Here is where you will find my favored list of metaphysical links:

Outside Links On Controversial Subjects


Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Ahh, but according to Paul, only the highest spiritually developed ascend the furthest into the light and expansion of consciousness to get anywhere near knowing everything. In other words, there is some sort of "spiritual ranking levels" that get your spirit further than others. How do you respond to this?

I see the need for some clarification on my stance here.

No one can ever know everything. Learning and spiritual development are all a matter of degree.

Think of the beginning stages of God Realization - that of a Magi - in the Ascended state as being likened to that of a small spiritual sun the size of a house.

Is that perfection?

Some might say so.

But what about a spiritual sun that is the approximate size of Hawaii?

Very impressive.

That must be perfection!

No, not really.

What about a spiritual sun that is the approximate size of this planet?

I think you get the idea.

Perfection and infinite understanding do not exist.

Spiritual growth and God Realization are both a matter of degree.

There is no perfection...only spiritual excellence


The only thing in ALL THAT IS that truly is INFINITE (however nonliving), is The Light Of The God Force itself.



Originally posted by marg6043
I understand what he said, yes is a ranking of some kind.
You have to understand that is new souls and old souls, with that comes experience in life.

Yes we have the kind that have been long enough to be teachers and guides and they will help the newer souls find the path to their own advancement.

In my opinion I see the end of our lives not as a death but as a rebirth. At the end we all will blend with the source from were we all came from.

...And that is how perhaps Paul is referring too but in his own way [we are] always teachers and students in this life and in the one after this one.


I agree with the above.


Carpe Diem!



[edit on 2-11-2006 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 09:13 AM
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Well, just as I suspected, that is one hell of a list. I see you just updated it, too. There is enough in there to keep anyone interested in metaphysics busy for months. How much of it is actually true is the zillion dollar question. In any case, thanks. But I know you're holding on to some special links not on that list. Come on man, give em up for the ATS brethren!


Note that what is interesting to me is that Paul not only answers the intial question, but provides backing information from which he bases his opinion. Visits to his website will show you where he's coming from, and it may take a while before many of you understand- something I am still trying to do.

I wonder how people view this information, and stuff like what you espouse at the Society of Light. I can't help feeling a part of me telling me that much of it may be true, and allowing for that possibility, but another part of me being very cautious. I wonder if deep down everyone is afraid to commit one way or the other, thinking that it might not be the right way, or that they may be committing to false information. So many people commit to standard religions, but I wonder if it is more because the masses do it, and in that they feel comfort. "So many believe, that it must be the right way."

Deep down inside, this battle rages within most I'll bet, even within those that are supposedly "saved." Is this the right way? Or is that way better? I wonder if those that spend a lifetime wondering and never committing are better off than those who committed to false information.

Edit to add:

Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
Forgive me for not reading the post before I respond. I'm hardcore and just can't change! lol (I'll read and respond to what you've written in a moment)


I might just point out Angela that the best information on ATS is often extracted deeper in threads than from the original post. It pays to read not only the original post, but the resulting replies. Everyone is included that way, and you'd be surprised at how it can change your reply to a thread. Honestly, I am having a bit difficult time trying to totally understand your reply. But at least I tried.

[edit on 2-11-2006 by TrueAmerican]



posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:21 AM
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Hi TrueAmerican,


Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Well, just as I suspected, that is one hell of a list. I see you just updated it, too.

Thanks.

That list represents years of research.

By the way, although it may seem so, I am not really holding back on outside reference links.



Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Note that what is interesting to me is that Paul not only answers the intial question, but provides backing information from which he bases his opinion.

I appreciate you pointing that out.



Originally posted by TrueAmerican
I wonder how people view this information, and stuff like what you espouse at the Society of Light. I can't help feeling a part of me telling me that much of it may be true, and allowing for that possibility, but another part of me being very cautious. I wonder if deep down everyone is afraid to commit one way or the other, thinking that it might not be the right way, or that they may be committing to false information. So many people commit to standard religions, but I wonder if it is more because the masses do it, and in that they feel comfort. "So many believe, that it must be the right way."

Deep down inside, this battle rages within most I'll bet, even within those that are supposedly "saved." Is this the right way? Or is that way better? I wonder if those that spend a lifetime wondering and never committing are better off than those who committed to false information.

Perhaps I can help you with your dilemma.

The problem is not necessarily what is factual - as the facts can change over time - but what values are important to stress in one's daily life.


Which brings us to the issue of conceived values versus operational values.

A conceived value is what one believes.

An example of this is the idea that there are space-aliens who visit us. Another is that when we die our soul lives on in the Spirit. Those are conceived values.

An operational value is how we apply - if at all - the precept of The Golden Rule. Not only how moral we are in the passive sense but especially how actively selfless we are as well. In cultivating selflessness we naturally evolve into being able to embrace hard-to-take conceived values that those who have not grown emotionally through selfless service have much more difficulty in handling.

In other words, if we strive to live by The Golden Rule, serve others, and use Heart Chakra Radiance daily, along with daily Radiant Prayer for spiritual guidance and daily meditation in order to be open to receive that guidance, we eventually find it much easier to intutively discern what conceived values we need to accept and those that are not really important, if at all.


Life is very important because how we have lived our life largely determines how far we can go into the light.

From: Near Death Experience Research Conclusions.

In the above NDE conclusion, take note of the phrase how we have lived our life as opposed to what we believed to be true or the "God" or God-icon we have accepted.

Our operational values which reflect what we truly are, not our conceived values or what we believe, dictates how much happiness and corresponding energy we will have in The Light after we transition.





posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:40 AM
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that the best information on ATS is often extracted deeper in threads than from the original post. It pays to read not only the original post, but the resulting replies. Everyone is included that way, and you'd be surprised at how it can change your reply to a thread. Honestly, I am having a bit difficult time trying to totally understand your reply. But at least I tried.


LOL - I know. I just read it too. I can't hardly make heads nor tails of it and I was the one writing it! I agree with you, reading the post and all the replies are important in most cases. But there are times when I get something that's important to get down.. usualy it's just a few wrods that bring on other information... unfortunatly it's very hard to discribe things like this without terms and definitions and lables (words) that are already known by all.

This is generaly why I take pieces and parts of posts and replies and U2U individuals that already have the same experiences that I do... then we can try to come up with a way to get the info on paper for ourselves and others. It can be difficult.



posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 01:15 PM
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I'd like to ask this question again, seeing as no one really tackled it, although in Paul's case the answer would seem to get absorbed as a subset of his philosophy:

Do you think that the dead may be able to use this information (information about how another died) as any kind of learning experience to keep them away from situations in their next carnal life that could prematurely cause their carnal death again?



posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Do you think that the dead may be able to use this information (information about how another died) as any kind of learning experience to keep them away from situations in their next carnal life that could prematurely cause their carnal death again?


We choose these lives we have and our deaths before we're born. Why would we want to prevent our "fate" if that's what we've chosen and what will give us or someone around us the most valuable "lesson"?

Our lives and our deaths are lessons to people around us here on earth also.

So guess my answer to your question would be it depends on the person's situation and what was "needed" in his next carnal life whether he uses that information to prevent a premature death.






[edit on 2-11-2006 by elaine]



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by elaine
We choose these lives we have and our deaths before we're born.


If Christians consider that approach, that souls choose their carnate lives, then how do they reconcile that with the Bible saying God created Adam? And then Eve? Are you saying that both Adam and Eve chose to be put on this Earth in that fashion? It was my understanding that God took a rib from Adam, and then created Eve. I don't think the Bible ever quite mentioned that it was their soul's choice?



And if non-Christians consider that approach, there are still some issues. At some point somewhere a discarnate soul would have had to make the first choice, to be the first carnate life, living among wild beasts. This of course assumes that there ARE discarnate souls- an assumption which is truth to many. And what about those wild beasts? Are there discarnate animal and insect souls discussing who's gonna be the next lion? Or butterfly? Or plant even? Is it possible they talk to each other too about how they died?



And if there are discarnate souls, waiting for reincarnation, then how many souls were there at first discussing who would become the first incarnate? Are there secondary discarnate souls of discarnate souls waiting to become primary discarnate souls? And what did The Creator have to say about all of this?



If The Creator created discarnate souls that would have their own choice as to what life they lived, and how and when they died- as part of a cummulative spiritual experience to bring one closer to the Creator- then why did The Creator keep on creating souls? Does that explain overpopulation in a spiritual sense, because there are so many souls waiting for reincarnation? And further, how then do souls reproduce? Because according to that approach, a soul must be available when a new child is born. And at the net rate of population increase, souls in their infinite wisdom, it would seem, should realize that this earth can't take much more overpopulation and stop multiplying.



In contrast, it would seem that souls would get created at the net birth rate, with each new child... Because that way, with continual net carnate population increase, there would always be an available body for a needy soul.

But that's only if the deceased were truely going to come back as another carnate human being, and on planet Earth. I have a theory along those lines that souls, once deceased from this planet, may choose to go live another life on another planet- as Lord only knows what other kind of life form- and that maybe getting closer to the Creator embodies the total experience a soul gains across a universe full of lives, on all life-supporting planets- and maybe even beyond that.

But I suppose at that point one would have to be pretty well ascended into The Light, eh Paul?


Why would we want to prevent our "fate" if that's what we've chosen and what will give us or someone around us the most valuable "lesson"?


Maybe because that death experience may be valuable information for the next soul trying to decide how it wants to die... again?


Our lives and our deaths are lessons to people around us here on earth also.

For sure!



posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 06:24 AM
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Hi TrueAmerican,

I was politely not going to chime in again unless I was addressed directly. Since you did, then here goes.

I agree that people on the Other Side have a choice as to where they incarnate (if at all), be it on this world or on the many others that contain humanoid life. The more intelligent souls prefer humanoid bodies to that of animals. But on the lower end of animal life, that of insects, there are no souls that incarnate into them, as they run completely off of biological instinct.

Which means that there is no karmic debt involved for killing most insects. (I see the humor of Zetan Preying Mantises reading this comment and taking umbrage to it.
)

There are a number of people in this forum, who are rather obvious by what they espouse, that have a strong affinity to the Reptilian and Grey "culture" (for lack of a better word) of The Zetan Empire and yet they are currently Homo sapien - pointing to them having had one or more lifetimes as what we term a Zetan-alien. God knows what those physical aliens call themselves.



Originally posted by TrueAmerican
And if there are discarnate souls, waiting for reincarnation, then how many souls were there at first discussing who would become the first incarnate? Are there secondary discarnate souls of discarnate souls waiting to become primary discarnate souls? And what did The Creator have to say about all of this?

In the overall sense, there are trillions of souls in existence. When one chooses to incarnate, one must compete with many others to get what one wants. The more favorable the circumstance of any given incarnation, the greater the competition. Group Entities (large discarnate communities) have the most energy in the Spirit (until the lesser gods Ascend) and so their prophets generally have the most favorable conditions in the overall sense.

There is no such thing as a perfect incarnate circumstance. Everyone must choose the most compatible parents and biological conditions that are available at any given timeframe in any given culture, race, nation, etc.

After The Original Creator used The Light to manifest The Big Bang billions of years ago, He/She willfully and irrevocably divided up into trillions of basically spiritual souls or angels who had a Dominant Aura Color of yellow. These were all of us in the beginning and in this timeline all souls are what is left of The Original Creator.

Which is why traditional ministers, rabbis, and priests have often said that "there is a piece of God in each of us." They were right but not because we were created. We all contain within us the matrix, the god spark or blueprint of The Original Creator.

Group Entities play the role of God and gods constantly as they find great pleasure in being worshipped and adored.


Originally posted by TrueAmerican
And what did The Creator have to say about all of this?

The long-term vision of The Original Creator was to have a Universe that is teeming with humanoid civilizations. But His/Her genius doesn't stop there.

He/She knew that eventually there would be Saints who would evolve into becoming lesser gods - what we term Magi - and that when they Ascended into The Light they would seek out the first Godhead through astral time travel into a distant yet parallel timeline to this one. When that happens, The Original Creator, at His/Her spiritual zenith before The Big Bang - which has been identified by discarnate Saints as a Master Stage of 6002 - will be invited into this timeframe and timeline, resulting in THE FIRST COMING.

In which case, The Original Creator's plan will be finalized: to emerge in a fully formed and creative Universe with an abundance of humanoid civilizations and various lesser gods.

Constituting one hell of a gameboard to work with





posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by elaine
We choose these lives we have and our deaths before we're born.


If Christians consider that approach, that souls choose their carnate lives, then how do they reconcile that with the Bible saying God created Adam? And then Eve? Are you saying that both Adam and Eve chose to be put on this Earth in that fashion? It was my understanding that God took a rib from Adam, and then created Eve. I don't think the Bible ever quite mentioned that it was their soul's choice?






I don't subscribe to the belief that everything in the Bible is the word of God. The Bible was written by Man not God. Some things in it may be true, but I believe that some of it has been distorted or rewritten for someone's own beliefs or agenda.

Especially the old testament. So I don't know how Christians reconcile Adam and Eve with souls existing before they're born.



posted on Nov, 4 2006 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The more favorable the circumstance of any given incarnation, the greater the competition.


Hmm, now that's interesting. So which is a more favorable incarnation, that of a disabled poor child with serious deficiences, or that of a perfectly healthy rich child?

I thought the objective up there was to complete a total experience, throughout all kinds of lives, whereby the soul would become enlightened from total experience? If all souls need to complete these experiences to advance spiritually and go higher into the Light, then how could one incarnation be seen as more favorable than the other?



posted on Nov, 4 2006 @ 10:21 PM
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Hi TrueAmerican,


Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The more favorable the circumstance of any given incarnation, the greater the competition.

Hmm, now that's interesting. So which is a more favorable incarnation, that of a disabled poor child with serious deficiences, or that of a perfectly healthy rich child?

That would depend on the goals of any given incarnation.

The circumstance of the mother who would likely have a disabled poor child with serious deficiencies may be that she has a spiritual bond with that disembodied spirit from having known that person intimately in the past. While the mother who would likely have a perfectly healthy rich kid may have no spirtual bond to that person from the past and also be a controlling, shallow, selfish person who would abuse her child emotionally - perhaps causing as much overall hardship to him or her as if the disembodied spirit pursued the first incarnate situation.

As the above illustrates, there are many variables to consider.

Better to incarnate into a relatively poor yet stable family where one is loved and nurtured than to come into an unstable family that is rich but not nurturing.

Regardless, seeking to incarnate into a relatively stable family that is middle class in the financial sense often results in a certain degree of competition for the many on the Other Side who desire to be born with those parents.

There are many more on the Other Side than there are on This Side.


Originally posted by TrueAmerican
I thought the objective up there was to complete a total experience, throughout all kinds of lives, whereby the soul would become enlightened from total experience?

That is a value judgment and a very good one.


Most who incarnate are not doing so to spiritually evolve, which is why the world is as it is.

Secondly, one does not have to experience all kinds of lives. A handful of spiritually purposeful lives are far more important in the cosmic scheme of things than hundreds of mediocre lives in myriad circumstances.

It is what you do with what you have that counts



Originally posted by TrueAmerican
If all souls need to complete these experiences to advance spiritually and go higher into the Light, then how could one incarnation be seen as more favorable than the other?

That is a very good question.

One does not have to be a criminal in order to know that stealing is wrong or be a female or male slut in order to know that promiscuity is irresponsible.

The degree of spiritual worth for any given lifetime is measured not by the number of experiences per se, but by the soul's cultivated ability to love genuinely and deeply, and by its application of The Golden Rule - which entails selfless service to others. This is what enables the soul to go to a higher plane in The Light than he or she was able to reach prior to pursuing a life of principle and service to others.



posted on Nov, 4 2006 @ 10:49 PM
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I gotta say Paul, no one but no one on this board gives me the kind of answers you do to the tough metaphysical questions I ask. I hope you know how much, truely, I appreciate your answers. In all fairness, you did avoid some of the real tough ones up there, but hey, I am more than satisfied. I thank you for caring enough to take the time with me that you do, just like you did in the meditation podcast thread. So again:


You have voted Paul_Richard for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


Thanks


Regards,
TA



posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 07:53 AM
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Hi TrueAmerican,


Originally posted by TrueAmerican
I gotta say Paul, no one but no one on this board gives me the kind of answers you do to the tough metaphysical questions I ask. I hope you know how much, truely, I appreciate your answers.

Thank you for the positive feedback and for the vote toward a Way Above Top Secret award.



Originally posted by TrueAmerican
In all fairness, you did avoid some of the real tough ones up there, but hey, I am more than satisfied.

I'm glad you are satisfied. You are a deep thinker who asks tough questions.

I have a busy schedule but if there are any of specific inquiries you wish to reiterate, I will definitely answer them before the end of the day.



[edit on 5-11-2006 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
I have a busy schedule but if there are any of specific inquiries you wish to reiterate, I will definitely answer them before the end of the day.


Not really, unless you care to tackle that one, from above earlier:


If The Creator created discarnate souls that would have their own choice as to what life they lived, and how and when they died- as part of a cummulative spiritual experience to bring one closer to the Creator- then why did The Creator keep on creating souls? Does that explain overpopulation in a spiritual sense, because there are so many souls waiting for reincarnation? And further, how then do souls reproduce? Because according to that approach, a soul must be available when a new child is born. And at the net rate of population increase, souls in their infinite wisdom, it would seem, should realize that this earth can't take much more overpopulation and stop multiplying.



posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 11:25 PM
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The correct answer is that no one who posts to this board knows. No one here even knows if the dead talk or do anything except rot.



posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The correct answer is that no one who posts to this board knows. No one here even knows if the dead talk or do anything except rot.




Awe cmon Grady, we were just gettin started!


Now how can you say that when people like Paul have been researching this for so many years and have websites setup and devoted to it? Yeah yeah. I know. The money. Roger. No need to explain. So on that note, I will direct to Paul the following question: How much money do you ask people for to support you and your website? Is that why Majic is so poor?
j/k.

Cause the truth is, Grady, Paul has never asked me for a dime, and honestly, his answers to me through all these and other discussions seem to come from a knowledge that is deeper, and more love-centered than most I read, with the honest attempt at helping me understand an approach that is entirely possible.

I think it is understood up front in a forum such as this that the interpretation of the material is going to be highly subjective, which allows me to ask such a "stupid" question as the thread title. But that's where the fun is! In wondering!



posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 11:58 PM
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I'm sorry. I didn't read Paul's posts.

Nevertheless, I never met anyone who was has been dead and by dead, I don't mean near death, close to death, almost dead. I mean dead, as in rigor mortis and decomposition.

Nor have I ever met anyone who says they know who has ever been dead.

I know there are a lot of people who claim to know, but I don't believe them.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I'm sorry. I didn't read Paul's posts.

Nevertheless, I never met anyone who was has been dead and by dead, I don't mean near death, close to death, almost dead. I mean dead, as in rigor mortis and decomposition.


That cracked me up!


I know there are a lot of people who claim to know, but I don't believe them.


Well, some people will just leave it at that, and hey that's cool.


But for me, I have fun getting other's opinions on paranormal phenomena. I need to take a break occasionally from the politics and conspiracy stuff, cause really, it is very taxing on my mind, and honestly causes me a lot of stress.

And with death approaching closer each day for all of us, it is a subject that is worthy of getting different opinions on... Unless the thought of rigor mortis is comforting to you, that is.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 06:20 AM
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My, what an interesting interlude exchange we had there.

I would like to add that Sigmund Freud was an atheist who did not believe in life after death, life before birth, or the discarnate dimensions. This resulted in his conclusions, which formed the foundation of modern psychology, being distorted.

When a person goes to sleep at night, one part of the brain does not create dreams. What really happens is that when a person goes to sleep, he or she becomes more receptive to telepathic messages from the Other Side - which are usually presented symbolically. Most dreams are not of a helpful or spiritual nature because most on the Other Side - as with This Side - are not devoted to The Light.

In light of this, everyone has had an abundance of communication with "dead people," as I have never known anyone who didn't dream.


Now on to TrueAmerican's questions...


Originally posted by TrueAmerican
If The Creator created discarnate souls that would have their own choice as to what life they lived, and how and when they died- as part of a cummulative spiritual experience to bring one closer to the Creator- then why did The Creator keep on creating souls? Does that explain overpopulation in a spiritual sense, because there are so many souls waiting for reincarnation? And further, how then do souls reproduce? Because according to that approach, a soul must be available when a new child is born. And at the net rate of population increase, souls in their infinite wisdom, it would seem, should realize that this earth can't take much more overpopulation and stop multiplying.

There are a finite number of souls and new ones have yet to be created. Technically, we were not created at all, we are what is left of The Original Creator in this timeline.

As the physical population increases along with the birthrate, more and more discarnate souls have the opportunity to incarnate.

Souls have yet to reproduce. If they were to do so (as far as I know), it can only be done in two ways:

1. By becoming God Realized, expanding or Ascending into The Light, and then dividing one's consciousness up into lesser advanced entities. Which is exactly what The Original Creator did after manifesting The Big Bang.

2. By becoming God Realized, expanding or Ascending in the Spirit, and then using God Force Light to create lesser advanced souls through projected thought. This is a very refined process which takes much development to accomplish. One cannot create someone with The Light who is equal to or greater than oneself.

The beauty of the second approach - which has never been done before - is that one can eventually (with enough preparation in Radiance) manifest exactly what one wants with The Light and not have to sacrifice one's personality and divinity in the process.

Most people on the Other Side will incarnate into bodies whenever they are available. They do not consider things like overpopulation, unless that means that they will likely be killed shortly after birth. Most do not come into flesh for spiritual reasons and therefore do not think that deeply about their choices and circumstances.



[edit on 6-11-2006 by Paul_Richard]



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