Originally posted by Essedarius

You are good people, Speaker.

I don't mean to come off so high and mighty.
We all wander into the world of stereotype now and again...whoops...see?

Hey,it's cool... Like you said, we all wander...

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
As far as I am aware, Jesus' name is Yeshua... Yes,Harpstrings, as far as I know, you are correct on that account.

Yes and I only 'just' came to know the real Messiah! It reminds me of that song by some rap person. "Will the real Messiah please stand up, please stand up" I asked, and He stood up.

I guess I'm not following you exactly HarpStrings. I feel like we're arguing the same side, but I'm missing one of the points your making obviously. How does the use of the name Jesus Christ allow Satan to decieve? Are you saying he will appear using that name, and that He (Satan) can not use the name "Yehoshua Messiah"

What about the use of the terms "Lord" and "God"? Should we say "YAHWEH" or the Tetragrammaton YHVH?

I'm just trying to figure out where you're going with this. It seems you are making this a central point in this topic.

You ask. Because Jesus' teachings are out of line with the Scriptures about 6 degrees (figuratively speaking) Jesus teaches Christians to teach others that a person is saved by faith alone. Jesus goes against the Father YHWH and places himself as the father. Jesus has seated himself comfortably in the Throne as biblically forewarned.

The name Jesus is derived from Greek, I think... Someone may want to correct me on that .... Yeshua is the actual hebrew name of Jesus.

I get it now. You don't believe that the Jesus of the New Testament is the actual Messiah?

I guess then you'll take issue with Daniel the prophet's words.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself" (Daniel 9:24-26).

This time has come and gone. if Jesus of the New Testament was not the Messiah, it's too late for one to appear.

[edit on 1-11-2006 by dbates]

Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
I pay good money every time I go to church in order to be accepted into heaven, it's a time honored and ancient practice that goes back thousands of years.

Besides ... who, aside from your god, says your god is the only true god?

The ancient Greeks never heard of your god.
The ancient Chinese never heard of your god.
The American Indians never heard of your god.

Go back to your temple and cloth thyself in preistly attire, pay gold for another holy book and offer gold to keep your temple intact. Then hit the roads and curse others who commit small transgressions while praising those that commit huge transgressions.

Jesus is a Greek/Roman god

Originally posted by dbates
I get it now. You don't believe that the Jesus of the New Testament is the actual Messiah?

No,I think Harp is saying that the "church" has manipulated the teachings of Christ.

Originally posted by dbates
I guess I'm not following you exactly HarpStrings. I feel like we're arguing the same side, but I'm missing one of the points your making obviously. How does the use of the name Jesus Christ allow Satan to decieve? Are you saying he will appear using that name, and that He (Satan) can not use the name "Yehoshua Messiah"

What about the use of the terms "Lord" and "God"? Should we say "YAHWEH" or the Tetragrammaton YHVH?

I'm just trying to figure out where you're going with this. It seems you are making this a central point in this topic.

Don't follow me. Seek Him. I'm not creating a foundation for argument (or atleast I'm not trying to) The name is wrong period and that is the way Satan has set up his ultimate deception plan for mankind. If your name was Allen, would you not be offended if I consistantly called you Darren? Eventually you would probably think I didn't know you or in other words, I was strange. Same principle with the name of our Messiah. We are to call Him by name, it is important to Him as it should be important to those who seek Him Spiritually. By placing just a false name before Him, we have created a wall to knowing Him...

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by dbates
I get it now. You don't believe that the Jesus of the New Testament is the actual Messiah?

No,I think Harp is saying that the "church" has manipulated the teachings of Christ.

Some other poster stated that Jesus is a Greek/Roman god. Satan stole the identity of Yeshua Messiah and was able to do this through another name. I still to this day talk about Yeshua and slip up and say Jesus every now and again and I immediately recognize this grave mistake and repent. I was deceived a long time, as you have been, but no more. It is time to awaken and remain sober and alert

In my opinion, you are placing far too much weight on names. Don't you think that the ideas of Jesus or Paul or God merit more consideration than the sampling of phonemes that are used to get their attention?

We are having a discussion about faith right now and I'll let you in on a secret...Essedarius is not my real name. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the same is true for SpeakerOfTruth, dbates, and for you too Harp.

Does this fact keep us from sharing our ideas and engaging in productive conversation? Nope. We need our names only so we can attach ideas to individuals and organize conversations. They are no more important than that.

God is many things to many people, I reckon...and a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Excellent! Now I finally see where you're coming from. I don't know about being a tool of the devil, but I do hold the Old Testament in higher regard than what's in the New and of course, what's written in the 4 gospels seems to have more weight than the rest of the New Testament. Yeshua never quotes from the New Testament (old joke).

I'll admit that there are some conflicts with Paul's teachings and the Law, but for the most part I believe that Paul was a good man who truly believed in the Messiah dying on the cross. Paul was a Pharisee amount Pharisees, meaning he probably new the Law better than most. He went from killing to preaching and seems to point to what's written in the 4 gospels as being true. What are some specific things that you have in mind?

Great Thread. I love discussions like these. Allow me to state first off, that I mean no offense to anyone, or anyone's beleif's. I offer my posts merely as conversation peices.

From purely my own perspective I find a lot of this as simple "My invisible friend" is better than your invisible friend. I do beleive that Yeshua was real, I do not beleive in the teachings of Christianity, and I have a hard time trusting anything from the Bible.

I however simply can not see salvation through faith. It seems to be an oxymoron to me. Merely beleiving in someone can not grant you slavation, but rather good works. That faith alone is as dead as the word. Which is why I have always had a minor dislike for Christanity in general and Catholism in piticular.

I qould like to hear though why the Trinity is considered false. Not arguing one side or the other, it just seems that a trinity would seem to make some sense with the little I understand about the Tree of LIfe.

Any clearification would be appreciated.

Originally posted by Essedarius
In my opinion, you are placing far too much weight on names. Don't you think that the ideas of Jesus or Paul or God merit more consideration than the sampling of phonemes that are used to get their attention?

We are having a discussion about faith right now and I'll let you in on a secret...Essedarius is not my real name. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the same is true for SpeakerOfTruth, dbates, and for you too Harp.

Does this fact keep us from sharing our ideas and engaging in productive conversation? Nope. We need our names only so we can attach ideas to individuals and organize conversations. They are no more important than that.

God is many things to many people, I reckon...and a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

I'm not placing any merit in the name Jesus Christ but many many people do. I place my faith totally in YHWH, through Yeshua Messiah and if another comes in His name speaking peace, love harmony etc...then they obviously are not He. In other words the savior we loved and knew Jesus, is an impostor by identity and the Roman empire set it up this way FOR Satan/anti-christ(s)

So you think then it is alright if I worship and praise Yeshua Messiah in the name of baal or saturn or....zeus?? You think Yeshua would really approve?

I do hold the Old Testament in higher regard than what's in the New and of course, what's written in the 4 gospels seems to have more weight than the rest of the New Testament. Yeshua never quotes from the New Testament

You see, that's where I differ. To me, the only reedeemable thing from the Old Testament is the Ten Commandments. Everything else in it is about some blood god that I don't even recognize.

[edit on 1-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
I however simply can not see salvation through faith.

I think the key point is that real faith has actions. For instance if you yelled "There's a bomb in this room" and just stood there, no one would believe you. Now if you ran from the room as you said it you're more likely to be believed.

What if the room had walls 100 feet high and no doors or windows. Your actions of running around the room while good enough to warn others, will not save you. Works (following the law) will do you no good. When it comes to salvation, we can't do anything to obtain it. It's out of our reach. If we have faith that it has been given to us, however we'll act as if we believe it. It is a tricky situation and difficult to explain.

The only reason we know to believe the New testament is from the prophecies in the Old. You're right in the bloody part though but there's lots of really nice stories, and teachings to go around if you look.

but you guys are coming in fast! I am just a "babe" myself. Every single day I seek Him, I receive new gifts (which are not really new) they are there for you too. I hopefully can guide all of you where Truth is and provide you with atleast enough that you question and thus you seek.

As for the old and new of the bible. There really is no old and new. There is one bible wrapped up as a whole. Before Yeshua came, there was a need for physical man to understand G_d and know Him and understand what is right and wrong. Now that Yeshua has come and shed His blood, we are (to be) Spiritual man and we must understand spiritually the things spoken/written in the so called "new" Testament.