"What will it take for you too believe"

hey menguard, I thought this similar thread might interest you, it got lost in the mix since ATS banned the awsome person that posted it to begin with for unclear reasons, LOL

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by menguard


This is what makes it hard in the field of Obscurity, it's our personal relationships with the unknown that makes us or drive us to know more.We know that we know very little yet the drive to learn is beyond our conception.The unfolding process is always a gradual one.

Are you sure the drive to learn comes from "We know that we know very little.."?

Maybe the drive to learn is nothing more than an impulse, like scratching an itch? Like a memory tickling the back of our consciousness, it causes a reaction in this reality which is called "learning" in the classical sense.

To answer your question at the top of the post: I believe (or not) because I choose to.

Originally posted by menguard

How about a Cosmic Consciousness.What will happen when humanity unlocks their Cosmic Self, no pun intended.

Wouldn't we first need to discover how it got "locked" up in the first place?
Or why? Maybe there is a good reason its locked up?!

Originally posted by menguard


Thats why I have always said that a "belief system" is the most dangerous thing in this universe.It carries a lot of weight and when enough people believe in the same idea it becomes reality, a "Set Reality".Get enough people backing you and you have an army.

There is an interesting experiment going on right now that is the tip of the iceberg in proving your statement about belief system setting a reality. Or at least impacting it.

The Intention Experiment

At this point in my existence I require no proof. I know what I believe and I perceive my beliefs as MY REALITY...whether others share my beliefs or not.

Damn typo's..



[edit on 8-5-2007 by 1nL1ghtened]

Originally posted by 1nL1ghtened
At this point in my existence I require no proof. I know what I believe and I perceive my beliefs as MY REALITY...whether others share my beliefs or not.

Damn typo's..



[edit on 8-5-2007 by 1nL1ghtened]

I know all about the typos, they are mans worst enemy, one letter can throw the whole scenario out of syntax.lol.

Sometimes its the easiest task at hand, at yet the hardest task to accept.Open minded people seem to have more occurances outside the norm of mankind because they can handle the presence of a fluid world.

Cool thread Manguard,

Although I kept thinking, just who is this Atsers guy and why is Manguard directing this question at him? God I'm such a noob

I think that it is very astute of 'I See You' here to point out that believing in Aliens shouldn't be any more of a leap in faith than following a religion and I also agree with Scramjet76 when he pointed out that social pressure and acceptability can strongly influence what we allow ourselves to believe.

I have had first hand experiences with this phenomenon (to find out more just go here), I have to say that I think that a lot of my own personal struggles with this could be put down to the fact that there is such a stigma to be associated with this subject.

I spend a lot of time doubting my own experiences and I will often lean toward the idea that maybe I am suffering some kind of delusional mental illness.
If it was generally accepted that there is some truth to these experiences then I don't think that I would spend so much time trying to find some other explanation other than the obvious one for my experiences. I think that the reason we so readily accept religion is because we are told that religion can answer all of our questions and will give us happiness. Whereas if we actually go about finding answers to the big questions for ourselves, there is always the fear that we might learn something we don't like. The problem with aliens is that if they really have been around a lot longer than us, they may already have found answers to the really big questions and there is a danger that they may give us proof of something that we really would rather not know about ourselves and our reality.

Our inability to accept the idea that aliens are here represents our inability to face the unknown and to accept truth objectively.

We fill the darkness with our greatest fears; we just need the courage to face our fears so that we can find the light within ourselves.

A big promblem lies in the Media, they distibute only on a need to know basis, and that is to little to late, thats why our space brothern have gone to such exsquisite bounderies to give information through future hopefulls.

We are updated with information so we may publish the skies with our thoughts.See are openness has got to be maxed out to handle there presence.There energy levels are off the charts and like a magnetic with a higher attraction it can pull you anywhere.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by menguard]

A big ufo, daylight sighting over a city. That's what it'll take.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by merka]

I saw one in the night sky blazing across the open field of consciousness, space it was moving at incredible speeds and as I followed it with my eyes it seemed to disapear/cloak itself.It was like following a candlelight and the light burnt out.Total metaphor here but you get the gist.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by menguard]

I agree with above, a biiiiiig spaceship with a sign
hanging from it saying 'A Spaceship Not Of Earth',
hovering over a major city.

I think that this whole subject is many faceted.
Belief in more than just this mundane life, a possible
way out of enevitable death and of course, the idea
of the person searching for UFO's being the the guy/gal
in the limelight.

There's probably no such thing as flying saucers or a
Star Council, we're just shaven apes looking at the sky
and pondering "Is this it?, I get older and then die?"

Living in a TV orientated world, we all secretly wish to
be a 'Mulder' or at least discover that there's more to this
dreary existence.

Well, back to the tablets.

There are things out there so marvelous, that the human conception is so limited only by linear thinking, outside that reality other marvels truly exist.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by menguard]

I’m pissed at the UFO guys. Really. Why are they such incredible wusses? They sneak around in the dark. They kidnap innocent people, use mind control on them and shove implants up their wazzus. They conduct secret experiments or drain blood from our livestock. What? Is this supposed to scare us? Every time they are seen they run away or disappear. Every time one of their flimsy ships hits a radar beam it crashes, so I think they know we’re not scared of them.

But they do all this stealth nonsense and mess up our wheat with crazy crop circles nobody understands. Oh, yeah, it’s a Mandelbrot set, but what the f does it mean? If they do make contact, it’s either with a doped up 60’s leftover hippy with '___' flashbacks who fakes UFO models with pie tins, buys plastic ray guns off ebay and says they're real, or some secret government new world order fascist commie masonic black project type who doesn’t want to tell anybody, or some whacky channeler who makes up stuff anyway. I mean, really; if they want us to change why don’t they talk to some credible people? And, no, Greer isn’t credible. He USED to be credible, but he whigged out. We can get you a list of a dozen credible people in a few minutes, really. How about Stan Friedman? All he talks about is stuff that happened half a century ago anyway; he needs some new material. How about the Dali Lama? How about Al Gore? (Well, no, forget that.) Show up during a Presidential debate. Now that would be cool! How about the Amazing Randi? Really, this is easy. Just ask. There are still a few people out here who haven't completely destroyed their own reputations. Use them, but don't use menguard!!

And stop with this inter-dimensional reincarnational soul catcher crapola. Yeah, I know it’s probably true, but you don’t have to go there. It’s too complex. It’s counter-productive. And besides, that WILL really freak us out. Save it for AFTER you address a joint session of Congress, Parliament, and the kibbutz (or whatever). And, look. We promise not to panic. We all watched Aliens, for god’s sake and we kicked the crap out of you in Independence Day. We didn’t panic then. The religious zealots will just attend church more, we guarantee it. If you look like the Close Encounters guys you’ll do fine. We like them; they're cute.

And these jerk aliens have gotten worse over time. They used to give you straight answers. At least when they talked to George Adamski the alien guys got out of their spaceships and shook hands and said yeah, we’re from Venus and you better stop messing with nuclear weapons. So that’s what we did. Oh, there have been a coupla tests since then, and we sure did build a lot of them, but we never set them off on people again after the space guys told us not to. Besides, there are a lot less of them than there used to be.

If these jerks are so interested in our well being or the well being of the planet then they need to stop messing around. They need to show themselves, land on the white house lawn (or Paris or London or New Delhi. I don’t really give a rat’s behind WHERE, just DO IT! No, we’re not going to shoot you down. I thought you guys could handle it, anyway. Make sure the cameras are there.

And if they tell us, look, humans, you gotta go to solar power in ten years. You already know how to do it. You have the technology. You have to phase out carbon. So here’s the plan. You go to solar and we’ll let you into the Galactic Federation and give you lots of cool stuff. Given a generation you’ll all be rich as hell and nobody starves. Humanity no longer suffers and everyone’s happy. Deal?

So that’s what the UFO guys need to do. Quit hiding behind trees, come out in the open and say, “Hey, we’re here. You must deal with us. You have no choice.” But if you continue to hide and play games only the weirdos and nutcases and New Agers will believe you. And that simply is not enough to be effective. Get over yourselves and Come on Down!


[edit on 8-5-2007 by schuyler]

I don't doubt for a second that life exists and has existed. I'm very open minded about what an alien life form is. It doesn't need to be the bipedal big head, almond eyes, frail body that decades of Science Fiction have thoroughly washed our brains with. Aliens don't need to be uber in intellect in any way or travel in UFOs for me to believe in them.

So I'm not locked in, controlled, or fixated on anything the vast UFO public is. I'm very much into dimensional opportunities like String Theory and the possibilities that this can open our potential crossings and understandings of other life here or out there.

So I'm 110% open to the possibilities any form of alien life forms out there.

Its ok, schuyler.....let it all out.. there there....feel better?

As much as I dis-liked your tone in your post (a lil hostile) you touch on some great points and not only do I sense your tremendous frustration, I think your hearts in the right place. And just in case your still wound up, no I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you or belittle your passionate words in any way... I found some of it quite amusing and agree on several points...

Is'nt free speech wonderful? Keep searching and you'll find answers!

[edit on 8-5-2007 by 1nL1ghtened]

There is reasoning behind it, and it is global, there are some out there that would not be able to handle the total truth, but then again others are willing to go to hell and back to make a point lol.

See little by little you desensitize them and the more they are willing to collaborate to that non fiction reality then the impact will be lessened.Then it will pass as common knowledge.Earthlings are 'Universal people' they just don't know it yet.

Originally posted by 1nL1ghtened
Its ok, schuyler.....let it all out.. there there....feel better?

Nope, I don't. It's a permanent state until those wusses get their act together. I mean, sheesh! they are a PR disaster and have no clue. I'm embarrassed for them, truly, to be able to such cool manuevers, yet be so clueless. Besides, it's not about ME. Never suggested it was.

As much as I dis-liked your tone in your post (a lil hostile)

What's my tone got to do with it? (That's a movie quote. You guess which one. Oh, all right, if you don't know I'll tell you, but you have to try first!) Besides, you liked it and I made you laugh. I get the points.

Is'nt free speech wonderful? Keep searching and you'll find answers!

I'm through searching. Ball's in their court; it's their turn. Land or shove off!

Originally posted by menguard


Thats why I have always said that a "belief system" is the most dangerous thing in this universe.It carries a lot of weight and when enough people believe in the same idea it becomes reality, a "Set Reality".Get enough people backing you and you have an army.

I would phrase it as so,

A belief system, the most delusional reality in our existence :0

But yes, good point you make here.

Originally posted by menguard
There are things out there so marvelous, that the human conception is so limited only by linear thinking, outside that reality other marvels truly exist.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by menguard]

I have to agree with this menguard. When we perceive the world as bits and pieces we lose sight of the whole. When we attempt to divide and measure certain qualities of experience that originated from the “open” perspective towards life we are attempting to kill the wonder and awe these experiences have instilled in us. The intent is to demonstrate for the approval of linear thinking minds the truth/validity of specific phenomena. The idea is to gain approval from a system of thinking that only represents one portion of human experience. Our culture tends to not accept what it cannot divide, measure and control. As a consequence if something cannot be divided, measured and controlled it is relegated to a lower position of value and respect. In order to gain a desired level of respect and value the phenomena is subjected to a rigorous methodology that reduces its value/quality in another area of human experience.

So, linear analytical thinking places greater importance upon the measurement and control of phenomena. Once a phenomenon is measured and controlled to an appropriate level it is used for what is hoped to be an over all benefit.


What cannot be parsed cannot be communicated in a linear or analytically fashion. What cannot be parsed cannot be measured, what cannot be measured cannot be controlled, what cannot be controlled is to be feared. Linear methodology seeks to control phenomena and therefore fears what it cannot control. One coping mechanisms used to deal with a fear is to devalue its importance. Hence the tendency to devalue and belittle what it CANNOT understand and it cannot understand what it cannot parse.

Direct knowledge must be validated independently by each individual through their own experience. Since the information gained from the “open” method can only be verified by experience it cannot be communicated in a meaningful linear fashion. For example: a man who has been blind since birth has no knowledge of the quality of color. How can the quality of color be communicated in a meaningful way to someone who has no concept of what it means? We can try to explain it to him, but the linear description does him no good because he has no context of direct experience. Color has no meaning to a blind man. Without meaning it has no value. Just because the blind man has no experience of color and just because it cannot be measured by him does not mean color does not exist, neither does it destroy color’s inherent value and quality, but color MUST be directly experienced in order to provide quality and value to an individual.

After reading many threads here on ATS, I'm of the opinion that many ET's are not "Extra" at all. Our planet is over 4 billion years old. It seems the height of hubris to suggest we are the first itteration of hominids to develop to this level on this unstable planet. It is just as likely that a previous itteration managed to get off planet before the cyclical destructive process of geologic growth took place. They would then have a vested interest in each succesive generation of intelligent hominids that re-evolved. They might even decide that a little tampering would be in order to ensure accelerated development would occur prior to the next cycle.

But in all honesty, our species is violent and stunted from a universal consciousness point of view, and thus not ready to join any galactic collective. We might even be forbidden to leave our planet. Evidence of this might be in plain sight.

Beyond politics have you ever wondered why our space exploration program was stopped on 1973? Have you ever wondered what we might have achieved in space exploration if the program had pushed forward at the same frenzied pace over the last 34 years??

Maybe, we would have already developed FTL technology, reversed engineered or developed on our own. Just a thought.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by Red_Dog_BOM]