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Explosions - Bottom floor WTC

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posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
www.youtube.com...

3:33 time. Anybody here an explosion? We would have heard it from the bottom.

Also, those loud noises before 3:33 are people crashing down...

I would like to add..count how long it takes from the first rumble you hear (I heard it at 3:35) to the darkness over the camera.
[edit on 8-11-2006 by deltaboy]

[edit on 8-11-2006 by deltaboy]




posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 06:19 PM
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Watch 9/11 Mysteries Part 1 Demolitions.

Any footage of the lobby shows the windows blown out and most of the walls were slanted or severly cracked. How can this happen if the plane hit the top floors? Because just before or as the planes hit, explosives in B1-B2 went off. These first explosions are the most important. Why? Because this gives the towers a place to fall into...the basement.

video.google.ca...

Time: 1H 30min

[edit on 8-11-2006 by T_Nexis]



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by T_Nexis
Because just before or as the planes hit, explosives in B1-B2 went off. These first explosions are the most important. Why? Because this gives the towers a place to fall into...the basement.



Okay...so why would somebody care enough to make a nice soft bed for the towers to fall right into? Not to mention that the towers fell all over the "bed." Guess somebody didn't planned it right eh?

[edit on 8-11-2006 by deltaboy]



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
Okay...so why would somebody care enough to make a nice soft bed for the towers to fall right into? Not to mention that the towers fell all over the "bed." Guess somebody didn't planned it right eh?

[edit on 8-11-2006 by deltaboy]


Because the maintance bill for the towers cost more then leasing them out to companies. The buildings weren't up to code, and it would cost millions to repair it.

Owner of the trade centers and the land, Larry Silverstein leased the towers for $15 000 000 and asked his insurance company to protect his investment against terrorism. This happened on April or 2001, on Sept 11th 2001 the towers went down. He took his insurance company to court because he said that it was two terrorists attacks not one, because both towers were hit. He won and got a return of $7 000 000 000. That's BILLION.

Also the towers going down benefited many others. The gov't wanted Saddam out of Iraq and so did Isreal, that's why they warned there companies that operate in the towers to not go to work that day. Afganistan and Bin Laden were the scapegoat. We all know the the Bush and Bin Laden family are very close friends. Bin Laden was granted amnesty and protection if he would allow his exploitation and the exploitation of Afganistan and the Taliban (who created the Taliban? The CIA in the 80's do your research)

Watch the 911 mysteries to see ACTUAL news reports from MSNBC, ABC, FOX that never made it to public television. Why because you clearly here explosions going off aswell as firefighters and police yelling about bombs going off in the buildings.

And if I remember correctly...or even better watch footage of the towers going down, I never recalled once them FALLING OVER...they fell straight down!!!!!

Calculating the weight of each floor and then doubling it because each floor is falling on another, using SCIENCE, it's calculated that it should have taken the towers 93 seconds to collapse, not 10 seconds. The towers fell faster than gravity could dictate. Which is IMPOSSIBLE! Which them means that something else "helped" the towers go down. Delay dentonaters.

And they wouldn't make it a perfect demolition, that would be stupid. People would have known something was up.

And in 2005, Madrid, the Windor hotel was completely torched. It was on FIRE for 20 hours and never came down. It was a steel structure like the towers. Yet the towers were SMOKING for 90 minutes and collapesed in an almost perfect manner.

Steel, concrete and glass don't burn! How in the hell did every pulverize?

If the towers were to collapse downwards on there own, it wouldn't pulverize, it would be 20 storey smashed stack of floors. Think about it. And yet everything became dust. You show me any other buildings that have collapsed in that manner without the use of demolitions.



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 07:14 PM
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Umm I didn't ask for an explanation as to why somebody want to destroy the towers. I want an explanation as to why should the towers should fall INTO the basement as you mentioned. Bombs in the basement as you mentioned.



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

Okay...so why would somebody care enough to make a nice soft bed for the towers to fall right into?
[edit on 8-11-2006 by deltaboy]


Sounds like you want an explanation to me.

And as to your "question". Because that's how you demolish a building, look up demolitions, (again, do some research). You blow the foundations anchors, in this case the core structure of the towers. Which are 4 inch think steel beams. The building is weakened and before a building falls into place a second explosions literally cuts those same anchors on a 45 degree angle making the building slide slight to one side, letting the rest of it fall into place.

I apologize for the "do some research" part. But that's how questions are answered.



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 07:37 PM
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www.youtube.com...

This video shows otherwise. They didn't follow the instructions that you explained. Saving the KABOOOOOM at the bottom for last....

www.youtube.com...

Not to mention no explosion in the lobby or first floor, all you hear is the rumbling... all the way to the top.

www.youtube.com...

Or this one, explosion on the bottom first.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


Video of South Tower collapsing.
www.youtube.com...



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 07:51 PM
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That's fantastic.
video.google.ca...


Oh BTW, in that second video you posted of the firefighters in the lobby. Answer me this, why does the lobby look destroyed?

Even the narrator in that post said so "It was obvious something happened in the lobby." Come on?! Did you even watch what you posted?

The shock in the basement from the explosion damaged the lobby floor.

[edit on 8-11-2006 by T_Nexis]



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by T_Nexis
Oh BTW, in that second video you posted of the firefighters in the lobby. Answer me this, why does the lobby look destroyed?


Not everything looked destroyed, you think the windows on the front doors be destroyed early in the footage just as the firefighters are preparing to go in?


Even the narrator in that post said so "It was obvious something happened in the lobby." Come on?! Did you even watch what you posted?

The shock in the basement from the explosion damaged the lobby floor.

[edit on 8-11-2006 by T_Nexis]


And the narrator also mentions about jet fuel shot straight down the elevator shaft. You might as well listen to that. And also before that, the narrator mentions some people were on fire burning, hmmmmm...

[edit on 8-11-2006 by deltaboy]



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
Not everything looked destroyed, you think the windows on the front doors be destroyed early in the footage just as the firefighters are preparing to go in?



Well if the bomb had exploded in the lobby, there'd be no lobby and no survivers. the bomb was in the basements. The structure between floors isn't made of cardboard! The lobby isn't going to explode if the bombs are setup to only blow out the core beams, not the enitre building.





And the narrator also mentions about jet fuel shot straight down the elevator shaft. You might as well listen to that. And also before that, the narrator mentions some people were on fire burning, hmmmmm...

[edit on 8-11-2006 by deltaboy]


What the hell does that half to do with what we're talking about?!?!?! Oh I see. I've never seen jet fuel severly crack walls. I didn't know liquid had that potential in small amounts. And it's amazing that buring jet fuel could move down the elevator shaft and only burn people and not the elevator cords of the elevators themselves. How many people hang out in an elevator shaft? It's not like all the elevators are fully opened on each floor...I think that's a saftey hazard.

Jet fuel was gone in the intitial explosion. And no airliner carries the maxium gas a plane can hold, it carries what it needs to get to it's destination. The planes were NOT filled to capacity as the gov't own media states. Airline companies try to save money, not spending unwisingly.

And jet fuels burns at a lower temp than will make steel melt. That's a fact. Do some research.









[edit on 8-11-2006 by T_Nexis]



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by ashmok
What your documents show is that there was one elevator that serviced all the floors, yes: Car #50. However there was another, Car #6, that served "B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107" ( wtc.nist.gov... ), so running from the impact point down to the basement. Might that not be relevant?


Yes, it is relevant, and thanks for this information, ashmok. That article has been updated accordingly.



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by ashmok
What your documents show is that there was one elevator that serviced all the floors, yes: Car #50. However there was another, Car #6, that served "B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107" ( wtc.nist.gov... ), so running from the impact point down to the basement. Might that not be relevant?


Yes, it is relevant, and thanks for this information, ashmok. That article has been updated accordingly.


Yes, Ashmok, this gives a conduit from the impact zone to the lobby (and B1 - there may be damage reports on B1, I'll check on this).



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 09:20 PM
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Look at these pics of the lower core structure in the Basements (b1-b2) of the towers aftermath. Nearly perfect cuts on them.

Look at the 3rd, 4th and 5th pic down to see the beams. Core beams are the 4inch thick brownish beam.
911research.wtc7.net...

Another good pic at the core beams, like a clean cut.
www.spiegel.de...




[edit on 8-11-2006 by T_Nexis]



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 09:22 PM
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From what I understand, there are reports from damages as low as below B4, up through to the lobby, and then, what was it, the 22nd floor? Or was that tower 2?

And then William Walsh's testimony, for all who missed it:


[Lt. Walsh:] What I observed as I was going through these doors and I got into the lobby of the World Trade Center was that the lobby of the Trade Center didn't appear as though it had any lights.

All of the glass on the first floor that abuts West Street was blown out. The glass in the revolving doors was blown out. All of the glass in the lobby was blown out.

The wall panels on the wall are made of marble. It's about two or three inches thick. They're about ten feet high by ten feet wide. A lot of those were hanging off the wall.

[B.C. Congiusta:] Wait a second.
(Interruption.)

[Walsh:] What else I observed in the lobby was that -- there's basically two areas of elevators. There's elevators off to the left-hand side which are really the express elevators. That would be the elevators that's facing north. Then on the right-hand side there's also elevators that are express elevators, and that would be facing south. In the center of these two elevator shafts would be elevators that go to the lower floors. They were blown off the hinges. That's where the service elevator was also.

[B.C. Congiusta:] Were these elevators that went to the upper floors? They weren't side lobby elevators?

[Walsh:] No, no, I'd say that they went through floors 30 and below.

[B.C. Congiusta:] And they were blown off?

[Walsh:] They were blown off the hinges, and you could see the shafts. The elevators on the extreme north side and the other express elevator on the extreme south side, they looked intact to me from what I could see, the doors anyway.


graphics8.nytimes.com...



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 09:26 PM
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Well, what do we do about this problem in the NIST report?


Cars 6 and 50 could have fallen all the way to the pit in the sub-basement level, and car 50 in WTC 1 was reported to have done so.


wtc.nist.gov...

They reference "NIST Interview 2004". (Note - I can't find where they identify who this interview is with.)

But we have this survivor account:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Seems Freight elevator 50 was in two places at one time. I hate NIST.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by ashmok
What your documents show is that there was one elevator that serviced all the floors, yes: Car #50. However there was another, Car #6, that served "B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107" ( wtc.nist.gov... ), so running from the impact point down to the basement. Might that not be relevant?


Yes, it is relevant, and thanks for this information, ashmok. That article has been updated accordingly.

Congrats on the speedy update! One further possible complexity... I've read it stated before that Car #7 also passed from the impact area to the basement. Trouble is, this has never had a reference to justify that, it's just been stated as a "fact". You might want to find exactly where Car #7 did go, though, either to prove that's correct, or incorrect in case someone uses it against you.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 07:43 AM
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After ashmok's reference I started making a graphical map of the elevators so that I could get straight in my mind where there could be communication between floors and where access points out of elevator shafts would allow damage to occur on certain floors (for instance floor 22).

Okay, i've finally figured this damned "elevator mapping" business out. It's a hibrid of what I was misunderstanding and what Left Behind was misunderstanding.

Here goes...(and this is all from the NIST report reference ashmok pointed to and thank you very much for that!
)

There was a bank of 24 local elevators at the Concourse level divided up into sets of 6 elevators. For instance, for the lower floors 9 to 40 there were 6 local elevators servicing 9 to 16, 6 for 17 to 24, 6 for 25 to 31 and 6 for 32 to 40. (The report inexplicably does not explain how you got to floors concourse through 8, but it's beside the point for this exercise).

Okay, the report states -


Further, leasable space was reclaimed near the top of a given zone. At the top of each elevator bank [of 24], the machinery to lift the cabs occupied the next higher floor. From the next higher floor up to the bottom of the next elevator bank [of 24], there was no need for an elevator shaft. The concrete floor was extended into this space, providing additional rentable floor area for offices, conference rooms, storage, etc.


This confirms that this graphic...



can, in fact, be taken as literal as far as the vertical interrupts to elevator shafts and the "stacking of local elevators" (that's the part I was misinterpreting). So there could be no communication between "local elevator shafts" between zones.

Now, as we've established, we had one freight car (# 50) which was the only shaft that ran the full length of the building (top to B6) that could have been the conduit for the explosion/collapse in B4. But Mr. Griffith and his passenger were in that one at the time of the impact, survived with minor injuries, and got off some where in the 50-60 range of floors (the cable sheared and the car was estimated to have fallen about 15 floors before the braking system caught).

Thanks to ashmok, we now have Car #6 that could have allowed a conduit to cause an explosion that caused damaged at the Lobby/Concourse level because it ran from 107 to B1 and had access to the Lobby. But this car couldn't have been the conduit for the damage reported on Floor 22 because it had no access point between floors 5 and 44.

So right now where we're sitting (and I personally feel this is the most accurate point we've come to in the "vertical shaft" discussion) is:

1. We still don't have a conduit to get the explosion/collapse on B4.
2. We do now have a possible conduit to cause the damage in the Lobby (Car #6).
3. We still don't have a conduit to cause the damage on Floor 22.

Point out anything I may be confused on.


[edit on 11-9-2006 by Valhall]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 10:15 AM
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Well, if you are right, then most of the elevators in the building would have survived unscathed.

Since just about every elevator was damaged in some way, there is obviously more to the story.

If the shafts were as isolated as you are proposing, then how did the local elevators in the first zone sustain damage from the impact?

How do you explain away what USA today reported after talking to elevator mechanics who worked in the towers?


www.usatoday.com...

Elevator shafts worked like chimneys, funneling unbearable smoke to floors above the crashes. The shafts also channeled burning jet fuel throughout both towers. Fire moved not only up and down but also side to side, from shaft to shaft, unleashing explosions in elevator lobbies and in restrooms next to the shafts.


Is it possible to pinpoint what elevators contained people who were burned? Then we would know some of the elevator shafts which were exposed to burning fuel.

Oh and BTW, if that image was meant to be taken literally than it would show a lot more elevators, and all of them would be in the core.

Notice that it doesn't show the stacked routes, that image is just an example.



Also note what is reported in another USA Today article about the survivors.


www.usatoday.com...

They could hear debris smash into the top of the car; then the elevator cracked open, and flames poured in. Carmen jammed her fingers between the closed doors, pulled them partly open and held them as passengers clambered over and under her 5-foot-6 frame to escape.

Before finally throwing herself out onto the lobby floor, she glanced back to be sure the elevator was empty. That was when fire scorched her face with second- and third-degree burns, and literally welded her hooped right earring to her neck. Her hands were badly burned.


So we do know that burning fuel was traveling in the shafts.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by LeftBehind]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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Ok, look at the following, simplified, graphic.



Let’s say that banks A and B serve floors 1 through 10. The machine rooms are located on floors 11 and 12.

Banks C and D serve floors 11 to 20. It’s machine rooms are on 21 and 22. The hoistway of bank C is also open to the hoistway for bank B.

Banks E and F serve floors 21 to 30. It’s machine rooms are on 31 and 32. The hoistway of bank E is also open to the hoistway for bank D.


The WTC arrangement was more complicated, but there was a good deal of interconnection between the shafts.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 12:21 PM
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Not the interconnection you need, and there's no evidence of FAEs from the upper-level elevators anyway, HowardRoark.

Valhall just posted above that the concrete slabs and trusses were extended OVER, ABOVE the shafts that had ended and were no longer needed. These elevators terminated on several floors, and only TWO of them are known to have gone to the basements, and only ONE went low enough to account for many events (multiple events), and it wasn't hit by an FAE at all.


Come on man. Just come out and say that the fireball got out on the lobby, blew out the windows, and then took a local elevator down into the basements.


[edit on 9-11-2006 by bsbray11]



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