The Possibilities of Jesus (pbuh) 'The Messenger'

Both Muslims as well as Christians affirm that God Almighty is a just and merciful God. Muslims believe that the sign of God's mercy is that He multiplies the good deeds of mankind from ten to seven hundred times, or even more. He also counts an evil deed as a single evil deed or forgives it. The Church, on the other hand, claims that the sign of God's mercy is that He sacrificed His only begotten son to save mankind. Let us study this claim:

If God Almighty decided to sacrifice His only son for the redemption of mankind, then we have one of two cases:

1) Jesus (pbuh) did not know of this plan and the fate God had decreed for him.

2) Jesus (pbuh) knew of this plan and the fate God had decreed for him.

I start this off with an external Source and the apparent potentials... (1) and (2) ..

Now my arguement will consist of various views and methods of study.

First I'll start off with some definitions.

InTangible: incapable of being touched : having no physical existence : not tangible or corporeal
Therefore Tangible would mean the opposite. This is key to know.

We as humans are 'creatures' .. something that is Tangible.
We as individuals are 'spirits' .. or.. rather.. ideas and systems of thought.. which are InTangible..

Therefore who we think people are and who we think WE are, are composits of Thoughts, multiple assumptions and recollections, which are InTangible.

Now you might be asking yourself WTF does this crap have to do with anything...

Well, ... The sentence .. "We choose our reality" holds a lot more meaning than one can think it has effect.

Our Thoughts and Our Bodies have relationships.. in other words...
What is Tangible and what is InTangible are connected in some sense.

The best way to think of this is a mobius strip. (Take a ribbon, put one half twist in it, and than connect the two ends... it will now run from one side right onto the other).

So they are directly connected to eachother, one would say they are the exact same thing, although they are different.

Thought is InTangible, and it is very subjective and are influenced and changed in split seconds. Yet Thought is MADE into the Tangible via the Human Body.
In the mobius example... take your ribbon, and before you twist it and connect it, Write on opposite sides, these two concepts : Tangible and InTangible and it will give you a visual aid for understanding this phenomenon.

I could give examples but by now your relationship with your body has slightly reversed and your body now gives the commands and your mind reacts... the best example would be hunger. You would go so far as to argue that the cause and effect of hunger are inescapeable .. 'concrete' as some would put it. I'll explain later more on this subject. But for now....

Let Us assume that Jesus (Pbuh) actually understood something we did not, and he was trying to portray that... Let us also assume that he Thought just like all of us do, and let us also assume that he had a relationship with 'GOD' just as he tells us we have.
Based on these assumptions the two possibilities surrounding Jesus' (Pbuh) existance are really a drop in the ocean.

1) Jesus (pbuh) did not know of this plan and the fate God had decreed for him.

2) Jesus (pbuh) knew of this plan and the fate God had decreed for him.
there would obviously be OTHER possibilities... Like..

3) He Choose what to do based on the Proper Use of His Energy, using his Thought to manifest 'Gods WILL'

The above sentence (3) is really saying something powerful if you read it correctly.

He was taking the InTangible and making it ALL Tangible.
and an interesting observation is that his InTangible (Thoughts) were always back or residing on the side of LOVE or Acceptance. Because LOVE itself is an InTangible creation which manifests itself into Tangible results in the world.

I Would like to Leave it at that for now and see what responses I get.

Huh?

Ya lost me.

Anyone else?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Huh?

Ya lost me.

Anyone else?

LoL, Please please, explain where I lost you.... I tried to make it understandable..

PS: I would like to insert these comments I made on other posts for examples of what I mean... in response.

Does God ever have a new Thought
God knows everything, because NOTHING has happened before him...?
God sees everything for what it is, because nothing has existed before he seen it.
A New Thought would automatically imply something has occured beforehand.
and to imply that, you would be implying that either the old thought was good, or bad.
these implications would color your ...'NEW' experience with PAST colors... meaning, they are PRE-MEASURED... we know God is immeasureable, having NO LIMITS, so No, he never has NEW Thoughts, he simply has THOUGHT, it is neither NEW nor OLD.

Does God experience it before it happens
I would say reality is a clap, or a gunshot.
Time is an experience that we have created to delineate our accomplishments and lack-there-of... Its really an InTangible Concept with Tangible results, (Because we Create Reality)
Therefore... Things cannot happen before they happen, because when they happen, they are REAL or Tangible. But before they become real they are InTangible thoughts existing in a super-position, in the froth of potentials.
So we are 'machines' that Resurrect the dead (InTangible) past, and place it in the InTangible future, and thus it becomes REAL.
So, ... Sure he experiences them before it becomes real, because when you THINK of something, the same CELLS are firing in your brain, as it does when it happens in REALITY.... We can only KNOW Reality by observing what our eyes have ALREADY recorded... its an editting process. Our Nervous systems are the filter.

If our consciousness comes from our soul, why do drugs affect our cosciousness?

consciousness is the ability to be aware of certain waves of potential.
What this means practically is ... consciousness is just observation filtered through the bodies nervous system.... it means 'What I am focused on' and I do not just mean the I that chooses, I mean the senses,...

Therefore ... DRUGS or really ANY Material Possession, alters the WAVES of potential, and 'shifts' the nervous systems from its previous formulations/operations.

We really need to view the world in a different way... bad and good are poor examples of behavior. It is... a sub-routine to something else, which is Tangible(Solid, having effect) and InTangible (noncorpreal, not having direct effect)
... We should realize that we take Things which are Thoughts that are InTangible in nature, and turn them into something that is Tangible...


We would love to think we are trapped inside something, and cannot escape until we DIE, This is so unhealthy a thought that it perpetuates death.

The thing is the only trap is our thinking, We THINK we are a certain person based on InTangible concepts that are DEAD.... The past is an InTangible concept therefore anything that happened in the past is also InTangible... Now I may be misunderstood here, because people will say that my past has VERY real and very Tangible results in my life now.... and my statement would be, ... We have the power to Resurrect the dead do we not? ...
So you think now, well if the past is dead, and the past is WHO I am now, than WHO am I in the future? .... well the answer is very simple. You are also dead, therefore you must resurrect that being as well, because the future is an InTangible concept aswell, ... so you ask yourself now, .. WHO CAN I BE, and my response would be, whoever you so choose, but my response would be, only resurrect the dead that is beneficial, when its beneficial.

My responses to those questions in BOLD might give more clarification as to what I mean.

[edit on 10/31/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Jesus from the Koran, or the Divinci Code or athiest view as normal man is not the same Jesus from the Bible.

I know that Biblically the Holy spirit is the force that is everywhere which is then channelled to the father to decide what to create and the Son who an Individual separateness from all is but is still part of it.

Jesus in the Bible did not know all things that the Father Knew as the father is like the central information centre and Jesus the individual from it. When Jesus received the Holy Spirit he gained knowledge and power because of the Spirit descended on him through baptism. Making him Individual and yet part of all gives him God the ability via the Son not to know all, he can separate some knowledge from him self, and this was when Jesus was born from a Virgin also.

So there is a separation from the Trinity but also they are one as a your finger is to your hand and hand to the arm and body. They are 1 but do different things on different levels. You could point anywhere in the universe and Jesus is there but yet has one clone instead of being everywhere to act as an individual to the rest of the information centre of all knowledge. It’s a bit like being able to clone your self from your blood every cell in your body has the information to make another you.
That is also how from my understanding God from the Bible is like. He is in every particle too but somewhere there is an infinite fractal of the information highway for the Father to collect (the command centre) and the Son his individual version where he can be separated from certain knowledge or even hide it from him self to have an individual Son if one can comprehend that.

I do not understand how you can have one God in Heaven and yet he can be everywhere around us. There has to be a Spirit to do this and if he is individual like man is for example sitting in a chair in heaven how can he know what’s going on Earth or the Future? God needs separate elements other wise how can he just know he has to have the expanse of the universe and yet be in heaven and around us. It’s impossible to have a God without him being in every space and place imaginable. Hence why Christians receives the Holy Spirit of God as its in them too saving their souls and sometimes they can perform wonders and have increased spiritual knowledge.




[edit on 31-10-2006 by The time lord]

Wow, you totally didn't read anything I said, and neither did it make any sense to you...

...nope....im not going to bite....


I won't.....Just leave it....

Thought I might add an extra dimention to it all. Sorry guess i just read a few bits but hope my earlier explanation could encompass something in there.

I don't know why put pbuh after the name of Jesus...He is the Living God.

I am not entirely sure what you are trying to say...but..

As to whether Christ was aware of his mission, I have to say that I don't necessarilt think he knew until after the Holy Spirit descended upon him. From the moment he was inbued by the spirit,yeah, he knew.

To use PBUH after Jesus's name is to deny his Holiest of holy stature in all of Heaven.

PBUH is a moslem insult against christianity, which deems Jesus to be nothing more than some one with a message but not from God...


....

......................................

Im going now before i start a ranting....

I didn't even know what PBUH meant. I thought it was just a string of letters put together.

peace be upon him......



Using it denies Christ the position and authority given to him by his father, God Almighty.

Its an insult of the highest order from when the moslems wanted to show that Jesus is dead and not a living Christ who is our living and only savior, so they say peace be upon him as they do all dead holy people.

Well,Kn1ght,calm down there,bud. Look, the Muslims believe what they believe. You have to remember, the Jews, the ones that even think that he existed, do not accept Christ as the messiah. I mean, does your indignation run as deep against the Jews as it does the Muslims? I don't know, but I lay you odds it doesn't.

Anyway, yeah,it's deplorable,but,hey, that is what they choose to believe.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]