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If Capitalism is so bad...

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posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 01:43 PM
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If Capitalism is so bad... then what would you suggest is better?

What would be a better government?

Didn't Mussolini say that communism is when the gov owns the corps?
Is that why the U.S. was/is so anti-communist?




posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 03:54 PM
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Nobody cares to discuss what would be better a form of government than capitalism, communism, or a dictatorship?



posted on Nov, 5 2006 @ 08:30 AM
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I could sit here and write forever about why I HATE capitalism.

Communism is the only way forward, but it needs to be disguised as capitalism for people to follow it.

Capitalism focuses on the individual, in a world of 6 billion people! But hey, as long as theres money in the bank what do they care? Capitalism needs a free market (which is good in some industries), but when england is importing the same amount as it is exporting in some products (I'm sure it imports more than exports overall) then this is just empty pollution.

Communism can be disguised as capitalism by privatsing essential industrys. Every person in the world needs food and water and energy and medicine and shelter and clothes and transport, but at the moment these are industrys controlled by individuals looking for the buck. By privatising these we can ensure everyone gets what they need, that money isn't wasted going to individuals and that resources are managed to maximum efficiency.

When drastic measures are needed to stop global warming, there are hundreds of conflict zones, millions of starving people and nuclear proliferation is reaching breakneck speeds we need the worlds leaders to realise capitalism is wrong.

Have you seen the movie a beautiful mind? It tells the story of Alexander Nash. He has an experience that has shown me exactly the problem with capitalism and the way to solve it.

He's in a pub with some friends and they see a group of girls. Obviously they'd all want the most attractve girl, but Nash realises that is a sue fire way for all of them to be rebutted. He explains to the others that they should all choose a girl and this will increase their chances of getting a dance. This is the opposite of capitalism, because a capitalistic Nash would have said bollocks to the other men, ran to the prettiest girl and hoped he would win. Instead he realises that in order to get what they want they must work together, only then will everyone be happiest.

In the movie he gets an award for this, but I don't think its had much impact on the world because of the way we still follow Adam Smith's crack pot theory.

In a perfect world there'd be no money, people would work for the satisfaction of providing a service for others, who in return have all there needs provided by others...

I'm just reminded of a parable from school (its not religious so maybe parables the wrong word), where we're told that after death (maybe it is religious) people go to a banquet. The only catch is that the chopsticks the people have been given are as long as your arm, so they can't pick up the food and put it in there mouth. In hell (capitalism) people are selfish and they spend eternity hungry. In heaven (communism) peolpe help each other, feeding the person opposite them, so they can all eat.

Thinking of the problems of communism only highlights the shortcomings of people... so maybe a perfect government wouldn't have humans in it because whatever one we have people will manage to abuse it to thier advantage. I don't mean to be so negative but its what I see in the world.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 06:47 AM
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What Mussolini said was that Fascism is the prefect marriage between corporation and government.

Capitalism as it is practiced today is a great source of evil simply because it puts profits first...profits middle and profits last, has no long term planning or vision...profits now and no morality beyond profits...the environment...the people....the common weal be damned.

And, as the 21st century unwinds we will be paying the price of such thinking as the environment unravels and resources dry up and the great migrations begin once more as people flee the results of short sighted profits now thinking.

It is not so much that capitalism is evil (or socialism or communism or any other economic construct) but the way it is practiced. For example there are many ways of practicing communism but thanks to Lenin the Soviet version is what comes to mind.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by grover]



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 09:19 AM
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The old and current form of capitolism relied on expanding markets in the forms of new frontiers and massive population growth. It is a finite system based upon the resources of a single planet at this time.

To maintain and recirculate wealth that is needed to avoid stagnation and permit innovation, income caps on individuals and on corporations are needed.

This also insures equality and justice as too much wealth in the hands of too few opens the door to government and cultural corruption which can lead to self extermination.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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capitalism isn't a form of government

anyway

even marx didn't say that the capitalist system was bad. he said that it was actually the best system humanity had developed so far


i'm in favor of a hybridization of socialism and capitalism



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 10:45 PM
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The perfect economic system-government that you could
make would have a mixture of Socialism and Capitalism.

Where the gov. makes sure that there are no poor or
homeless, and that everyone is warm and has the required
nutritional needs.

However, the capitlistic part would come in if you wanted
non-essential foods or things like video games, or stuff that
you basically don't need.




It is sad that humanity is the way it is, that being that we
can't work to better both ourselves and humanity as a whole.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:10 PM
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I personally think most Americans are so happy with capitalism is because America is united the world banks. I think the world banks are willing to give the USA whatever they want because they know they will... eventually own... America. I think that is why America is so well off (and so in debt).

But I have a question... do you think Democracy eventually leads to Capitalism? (I do)



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:20 PM
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Humanity isn´t evolved enough to embrace communism, and by communism I mean the ultimate one, where the goal is to get rid of the state. Power to the people ladies and gentleman.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by iori_komei
The perfect economic system-government that you could
make would have a mixture of Socialism and Capitalism.


They don't want that. Thier goal is to destroy and imprision the poor. They are a drag upon society, they use up needless resources and such.

The best form of destroying people other than outright genocide is to allow the people to destroy themselves. This is what capitalism does.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:32 PM
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I must say it makes me wonder why the U.S.A was so against Communism in the 1950's ... Could it have been because they knew communism is a branch of government that kept checks and balances on how far capitalism could go?



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by Techsnow
I must say it makes me wonder why the U.S.A was so against Communism in the 1950's ... Could it have been because they knew communism is a branch of government that kept checks and balances on how far capitalism could go?


I think they were against communism because it was a form of taking care of the weakest members of society.

Their goal is to devolve the weakest genetic people right out of the human race and create a super race of superior genetically unflawed human beings.

Why else would all of the pretty people have all of the money?



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by Techsnow
I must say it makes me wonder why the U.S.A was so against Communism in the 1950's ... Could it have been because they knew communism is a branch of government that kept checks and balances on how far capitalism could go?


I think they were against communism because it was a form of taking care of the weakest members of society.

Their goal is to devolve the weakest genetic people right out of the human race and create a super race of superior genetically unflawed human beings.

Why else would all of the pretty people have all of the money?


IDK man sry but I can think of some pretty fat FUKERS that have WAY TOO MUCH MONEY...

You may be thinking of celebs but I think celebs are only here to keep the comon mans mind on materialistic things instead of enjoying life.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:02 PM
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A major reason we disapprove of communism is because it is anti-individual. In the capitalist system those who want something badly enough will eventually get it. If being fantastically wealthy is something that you really, really, want you can have it through all kinds of different avenues. If all your ambitions amount to you wanting to eat cheetos and play your Xbox all day, well, you can have that too.

I believe we're already far too much of a socialist country and rely far too much on governmental programs. Others believe the opposite. I, and many, believe in equity over equality. Equity as in "you get out what you put in","sow and you shall reap," all that good stuff. Equality is not so much an admirable goal in my eyes because we are not all equal in abilities, dreams, desires, etc.

Profit, kind of like capitalism, has enabled civilization in my opinion. Long ago all people did was hunt/gather/whatever just to survive, and when they refined their methods to the point that there was a surplus (profit) they could spend less time on survival and then worry about other things like science, arts, etc. etc.

Look at it this way - if you had Bob doing a job that paid a salary and you had Joe do the same job but his pay was performance-based, assuming they were of equal intelligence, ability, everything - who do you think would be most efficient or do the best job?

We should demand the best of ourselves and everyone else and the people that cannot keep up should be left behind. Also, it seems illogical that a group of people can collectively be stronger if they have to prop up weak people.

What's it they say - the seven skinny cows killed and ate the one fat cow but none of them got any heavier.


edit: here's a link to Kurt Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron" instruct.westvalley.edu... don't worry, it's very short and well worth it if you've forgotten the story or never read it in school. It is read by many in high-school but I've seen it used to spark discussion in both literature and comparative politics lectures in university.

[edit on 25-11-2006 by AlphaHumana]



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by AlphaHumana
Also, it seems illogical that a group of people can collectively be stronger if they have to prop up weak people.


Spoken like a true compassionate capitalist.


What if the weakest 80% of society (The lazy, cereal eating fatties) decide that they no longer wish to prop up the individual capitalist kings?


And the whole thing collapses, because the top 20% is heavier than the base can support.


[edit on 25-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:15 PM
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Hey, I'm compassionate but I shouldn't have to be (e.g. using my tax money to pay for things I don't use is a perfect example.) Let me be compassionate on my own time and money! I've always thought that people should be thankful that companies are willing to give them jobs if they are unwilling or somehow unable to make their own company. This usually gets things thrown at me and yelled at, however.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by AlphaHumana
Hey, I'm compassionate but I shouldn't have to be (e.g. using my tax money to pay for things I don't use is a perfect example.) Let me be compassionate on my own time and money! I've always thought that people should be thankful that companies are willing to give them jobs if they are unwilling or somehow unable to make their own company. This usually gets things thrown at me and yelled at, however.


You know that not everyone is capable of starting a company.

The tax situation is just a bad joke, which has been perpetrated upon the public, waiting to unfold.


[edit on 25-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:31 PM
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Of course I know not everyone can start their own company, that's why I added "or somehow unable"
As far as taxes, they're one of my favorite issues to discuss because almost everyone is affected by them and usually has something to add! (weak pun, non-intentional) I don't want to steer this thread that far off course though.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by AlphaHumana
I don't want to steer this thread that far off course though.


If we can't have a working form of socialized capitalism then I propose that we abolish everything and start over from scratch.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:45 PM
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Lol, that's what we have already though! Imagine if we started from scratch and everything happened as it did, minus the Great Depression - we would be much more solidly in the "capitalist" column. If you want us to become any more socialist, you don't want to start from scratch!



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