European Union, a military superpower?

Back to the original subject at hand, I want to look at it from a geopolitical standpoint. If the European Union can indeed get past all of its troubles, then we're looking at the next evolution in world power as well as the next great superpower. It has all cylinders necessary to drive the world. The downside of this is that China's surgence will mean they will create their own coalition to ensure the EU does not dominate the globe.

My personal belief is that America will continue to exist well into the 22nd century, but in a very diminshed role. It will largely depend on the EU and whatever coalition Asia decides to create in order to counter the EU.

America is one of the most liberal societies on earth, if it continues to be one, it will continue to dominate.

Originally posted by chinawhite
America is one of the most liberal societies on earth, if it continues to be one, it will continue to dominate.

I see sort of a Battlefield 2142-type situation in the future, where we have the European Union and the Pan Asian Coalition as the two big powers, then we have smaller powers in the Union of African States. I take it a bit further by putting the U.S. in there, as the last remaining one-nation power but again, with much-diminished military power.

Another dimension could be space exploration. The EU, Asia, and the U.S. all have the ability to kick off an unprecedented space race.

I hate to be so nationalistic, but America Always. I don't ever want this country to go away. It can change, but hopefully it never goes away.

[edit on 15-11-2006 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Originally posted by chinawhite
America is one of the most liberal societies on earth, if it continues to be one, it will continue to dominate.

Liberal? Maybe when compared to China or Iran, but certainly not like the EU.

Unless you need to own a gun and drive when your 14...

Well said Stu, I think you hit the nail on the head.

It has always appalled me, the way America bangs on about the rights of it's citizens, whilst denying those same rights to other people - who oppose their point of view.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that I liken the USA to the very large brand of Muslim Power we see so much about in the news media.

You have the right to say and do anything you want or better yet, to do what we tell you to do, but whatch out my friends because, if you ever go against our version of our New World Order, then we will brand you a supporter of terror and turn all our military might against you.

I would hope in the aftermath of the thrashing Bush and his cronies received that sense will prevail and foreign policy will now begin to settle down.

I personally think that America, contrary to what the media would have us believe, is very much sick and tired of fighting an unwinnable war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Come on you Americans, get off you bottoms and demand to bring your brave soldiers home. Sooner, rather than later.

I plead with you to do this because until you do, this crackpot led government of ours is determined to go down in history as the biggest warmongering supporter of US foreign policy the world has ever seen.

We want our brave soldiers back too!

Originally posted by devilwasp
its only one ship.

come again?, tell you what mate find me a website that tells me the mod are ordering JUST '1' and i'll kiss your bumcheeks right now.

i think you'll find 6 is already confirmed (names given already) with 2 more going to be ordered, totalling to 8.

I think europe has every chance to become the next super power.
We got the brains for it, if you look on the time line, all the scientists who discovered all the great things were all europians, we are nr1 in research when it comes to science, since we are forming our own europian nation we will keep our scientists for our personal use, since the euro is biger than the dolar I don't see why they would go to USA any more.
There is curently a plan for research that is far better founded here in europe, in stead of investing money in war tecnology that exists, it's better to invest in to research and colect the rewards from there, that is the goal.
In a few years we will be ruling
We are far better at reseach than any one.

Originally posted by pepsi78
.....
In a few years we will be ruling

.......

This coming from someone with a American product name and Avatar and signature from an American movie. Hmmmmmm.....

Give me a break all Western countries have very good research programs. Look at Japan and what they do. Also take a look at the Nobel prize winners from the last few years in scientific fields and tell me what country stands out. Hint, it's not a European country.

[edit on 16-11-2006 by pavil]

Originally posted by st3ve_o
come again?, tell you what mate find me a website that tells me the mod are ordering JUST '1' and i'll kiss your bumcheeks right now.

Steveo its one ship, yes there will be about 9 but come on. How much projection can 9 ships do? Not much , mate we need MORE ships not less.
As much as I like to see new shiny toys I'd like to see MORE shiny toys, hell I'd prefer another 20 type 42s than 9 type 45's.

i think you'll find 6 is already confirmed (names given already) with 2 more going to be ordered, totalling to 8.

Yes we've been over this steveo it is still only ONE ship though, we may build 9 ships but at what cost?

what do you mean 'less' your talking like the type45's are downgrading the royal navy...once the 45's are in service (even if less than the 42's) it will still give us a better dimension than what we have at the moment.

in your eyes than what would you rather have,

500 spitfires
or 200 typhoons?

i think if your being honest you'd say the typhoon, it's the same thing as this point (the type45's are superior to it's prediser) but we are only going to have maybe 1 or 2 less destroyers than what we have now.

9/10 rusting type42's currently in operation (i think, without looking it up)...8/9 type45's so what are you moaning about?

[edit on 16-11-2006 by st3ve_o]

Originally posted by st3ve_o
what do you mean 'less' your talking like the type45's are downgrading the royal navy...once the 45's are in service (even if less than the 42's) it will still give us a better dimension than what we have at the moment.

Lol HOW?
We'll have less ships, a shorter reach and less air cover tell me how that improves the fleet?

in your eyes than what would you rather have,

500 spitfires
or 200 typhoons?

Your comparing the type 42 to a spitfire? And the 45 to a typhoon? Please be realistic here.
I would rather have 15 odd type 42's than 8 or 9 (I doubt we will get that magic number thanks to a certain group who live in london) type 45s.

i think if your being honest you'd say the typhoon, it's the same thing as this point (the type45's are superior to it's prediser) but we are only going to have maybe 1 or 2 less destroyers than what we have now.

Yes we are now at 9 , 9 destroyers to defend two carriers not counting HMS ocean, there over 40 years old and it took them 40 years to think up a replacement for crying out loud.

Do you remember the trouble the navy had getting the plans for invicible through parliment?
We at current have no replacement for the type 23's also hint hint.

9/10 rusting type42's currently in operation (i think, without looking it up)...8/9 type45's so what are you moaning about?
[edit on 16-11-2006 by st3ve_o]

You do know that MOST ships are rusting....right? Its a natural part of maritime life we try to stop as much as we can.
I'm moaning because I'd like more than 9 destroyers to guard 3 carriers oh and the fact that all the type 42s are due to be out by 2014, you think we'll get 9 ships built in that time?

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

I never said the EU wouldnt put up a fight or that my wang was bigger than anyone elses. I just said that given an all out war the US would win in my view. There would be a lot of money and casualties lost on both sides though.

And we lost Vietnam not because of what we fought with but how we fought. President JBL and his Secretary of Defense micromanaged the war, often picking targets themselves and having such stringent Rules of Engagment to where the pilots had to be fired at first before they could fire back even if they saw it first. He was so worried about the USSR steping ina nd starting WWIII he didnt allow us to win.

Given an all out war, no one can match us but as has been seen in Iraq, we cant keep the peace because thats not what troops are for.

If the EU can bring it together and brings all its economy together( like the UK using the Euro, which I find ironic since the UK is the biggest power in the EU) and coordinate its military might, it will become a superpower. But until then its still in its infancy. And I didnt say in a demining manner, only that its true.

[edit on 17-11-2006 by SenHeathen]

Originally posted by fritz
Well said Stu, I think you hit the nail on the head.

It has always appalled me, the way America bangs on about the rights of it's citizens, whilst denying those same rights to other people - who oppose their point of view.

Uhm, yeah.... those people are our enemies , well I know europe tends to like to give aid and comfort to their enemies .

In my opinion, Europe will see a diminished role from here on out. They are too small to be a superpower and are liberal to the point of self-anihilation. They will soo be at the feet of their muslim masters.

Originally posted by pepsi78
I think europe has every chance to become the next super power.
We got the brains for it, if you look on the time line, all the scientists who discovered all the great things were all europians, we are nr1 in research when it comes to science, since we are forming our own europian nation we will keep our scientists for our personal use, since the euro is biger than the dolar I don't see why they would go to USA any more.
There is curently a plan for research that is far better founded here in europe, in stead of investing money in war tecnology that exists, it's better to invest in to research and colect the rewards from there, that is the goal.
In a few years we will be ruling

We are far better at reseach than any one.

Oh? I think the major computer corporations are....American?

...this thread is a pathetic confidence booster for europe. we all know europe sucks!

Fly to the moon and come back and we will give the EU a place as a super power....

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Oh? I think the major computer corporations are....American?

...this thread is a pathetic confidence booster for europe. we all know europe sucks!

Fly to the moon and come back and we will give the EU a place as a super power....

Oh? I think the major Telecommunications companies are European if we're going to get fussy and start competing.

The only vendor that is American is Cisco (And their kit is unreliable and flakey)

Nortel is Canadian, Marconi (now called Telent in the UK) are owned by Ericsson, who themselves are Swedish. Alcatel is French. Nokia is Finnish... the list goes on.

As for carriers, BT is, well British, Vodafone is British, Cable and Wireless is British and thats some of the biggest carriers on the planet.

Now I have that out my system, why exactly does Europe suck?

Is it the free healthcare?

Or the excellent education system, free from Bible-basher interference?

Or is it the social care benefits that look after the people?

Or is that our Governments listen to the people?

Or is it...... see where I am going with this?

Now, I tried earlier in this thread to steer away from all this "America number 1!! Europe sucks!" crap you guys insist on bringing in here. Militarily, the combined European armed forces are larger than the USA. Economically, the combined GDP is virtually the same size as the USA (give or take a billion or so). So exactly how is the USA "better"?

If you don't have anything constructive to say, shut up.

PS: I didn't realise that going to the moon was a requirement to be a super power. You guys can't even do it now without having to spend $100 billion doing so.

Makes you wonder if you ever went in the first place.

I mean, why can't you use the technology you have already developed 30 years ago?

Why is it going to take you an obscene amount of money and another 12 years to go somewhere you went 30-40 years ago?

[edit on 17/11/06 by stumason]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Uhm, yeah.... those people are our enemies

, well I know europe tends to like to give aid and comfort to their enemies

.

You mean like the US to the IRA?
Or say the afghani terrorists you are now hunting down?

In my opinion, Europe will see a diminished role from here on out. They are too small to be a superpower and are liberal to the point of self-anihilation. They will soo be at the feet of their muslim masters.

Lol yyeess at the feet of our muslim masters, we obviosly could learn from the might US on how to "control" the "muslim problem".

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

In my opinion, Europe will see a diminished role from here on out. They are too small to be a superpower and are liberal to the point of self-anihilation. They will soo be at the feet of their muslim masters.

Small? Our population is 461,500,000. If we're small, your smaller....

Too liberal? Oh no, we can't have people who actually get freedom to do what they want, can we? God forbid people actually be given a choice......

(And thats coming from someone who lives in the "Land of the Free"... , right....)

And what's this about "muslim masters". As of 2005, only 5% of the total EU population regard themselves as Muslim. In the UK, this figure is smaller, at around 2.7%.

Incidentaly, on the subject of religion, the UK has a larger population of Jedi Knights than anywhere in the world. Apparently, almost 1% identified themselves as Jedi. So, are we to think that we are on the brink of a Jedi takeover?

[edit on 17/11/06 by stumason]

lol, and we can smoke pot in Holand try that in the US if you can
Any way, I'm glad europe is more liberal, gives you the option of making choises.
I think europe will soon be called the land of the free and take united states at that.
Curently we have more freedoms any way, It would not surprise me to see soon people from united states request political asilium in europe.


[edit on 17-11-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Oh? I think the major computer corporations are....American?

...this thread is a pathetic confidence booster for europe. we all know europe sucks!

Fly to the moon and come back and we will give the EU a place as a super power....

What about democracy? That's the greatest European invention ever. The US used to have a democratic system but it's currently rather evolving into a dictatorial regime, while Europe steadily maintains the principles of democracy.

Now I don't say Europe is superior, but I think we may say that Europe is ''mentally'' further developed than the US, which I think is more important than being slightly ''physically'' further developed. In terms of e.g. diplomacy, democracy, and military tactics Europe is much further/smarter than the US, while the US is slightly stronger and more advanced when it comes to military technology and force reflection.

An example of military tactics is that Europe warned not to go into Iraq as it was aware of the difficulties that would arise regarding stability and insurgency, since most countries already experienced similar scenarios in former colonies.


[edit on 17-11-2006 by Mdv2]

Ok the EU is made up of a number of counties that have their own standing modernised armies.....if anyone ONE or even TWO of these countries somehow got into a war with the united states then the victor of that war would most likely be the united states.......but Europe as one army well thats an entirely different matter
ur talking about countries such as england and germany, i really dont think america could ever win such a war, lol these countries have existed for a long time and they aint going anywhere. so if the eu does create one massive joint military
then indeed they would have to be viewed as a superpower
i think the problem is people dont like to think that america could ever be rated second best in military power, rite now america is the only superpower with a very powerful and flexible army and not to mention a large nuclear arsenal which they would have no problem using to secure there rights as a country if ever threatend
china is rising to superpower status even as we speak, for one there population gives them massive and overwhelming forces to outgun even better trained and outfited armies
after china become a world power it will be in the worlds best interest that europe become a superpower as well. that would proberly stop a war between america and china ever begining as we all know the EU would jump at the chance to pay back america for there much needed help in ww2 (at least i hope they would)
anyways ive ranted on enough lol

[edit on 17-11-2006 by PlayeR87]