NI Unionists against proposed Papal visit

Unionists could not welcome a visit by the pope to Northern Ireland at this time, DUP MP Gregory Campbell has said.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The unionists wouldn't be complaining if the Queen was to visit NI, but complain when the Pope does! Personally I think that Gregory Campbell is attempting to perform the infamous Ian Paisley stunt where he started shouting sectarian remarks at Pope John Paul II, and it is reported that he will also meet with the Queen of England.

I think that this would be a good time for the Pope to come to Ireland because it seems with the signing of the St Andrews agreement, progress is slowly coming along although progress will take a long time and we are reminded of this on the BBC TV program, "Lets Talk", a DUP member would not sit beside Gerry Kelly because he thinks that the IRA did not decommision.

I think the title is giving a wrong impression.
Gregory Campbell like the DUP are not "unionists" but, more accuarately, are merely 'some unionists'.

......and who really gives a 'flying continental' @*!/ what Gregory Campbell says about this?

Or for that matter whether the minority lumpen fundy evangelical proddy/DUPer element can't find it in themselves to welcome the Pope coming to Ireland/NI?

It's not dependant on their say so anyway.

.....and who does GC think he is kidding?
At what "time" is he pretending they ever would welcome a Papal visit, hmmmm?
I'd love to know what, exactly, it is that the Pope is supposed to have done to not be "welcome at this time"?

I suspect the truth is GC, like some of the other fundy nutters, prefers the 17th century view and to believe that the Pope is the (or an?) Anti-Christ.....but maybe even with the likes of GC he realises it's not something he could say out loud and maintain the slightest shred of credibility these days.

This is typical of an unreconstructed unionist bigot (although I note even Paisley went and met RC Archbishop Brady recently); using ancient out-dated religious dogma to further a contemporary political agenda.
IMO it's wicked and evil and it brings nothing but contempt and a deaf ear from the rest of the UK and RoI towards unionism (and in fact everybody in NI).......way to go Greg, idiot.

It's quite obvious that Campbell and his 'type' are unlikely ever to welcome the Pope.
So it's quite gratifying to know that he doesn't have a say in it.

It might not be much but in this instance it is one of the 'benefits' of direct rule.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Unionists could not welcome a visit by the pope to Northern Ireland at this time, DUP MP Gregory Campbell has said.

This of course begs the question, who cares what the Unionists think? And what in the world makes them think that the Pope would listen to them, or that they have the authority to determine who can and who cannot enter the country???

What a stupid thing to say when we are trying to restore democracy to Northern Ireland.

I agree that its an excellence time for the Pope to visit Northern Ireland and hopefully he comes to the rest of the UK too. He may be coming to my home City, Canterbury, next year and i would love to meet him.

The Catholic Church plays a big part in United Kingdom and including our politics too. We have many Catholics in government and Parliament, but its sad that some people have a 1600 view on Catholics

grrr

Well I for 1, could care less where the pope goes aslong as he doesnt come near my neighbourhood. He can go where ever he likes.

This of course begs the question, who cares what the Unionists think?

That would depend on where you live, alot of prodestants in Scotland care what the Unionists think. You miht think it is wrong but that the way it has been for years and it will continue.

What a stupid thing to say when we are trying to restore democracy to Northern Ireland.

He is just expressing the views of other unionists and loyalists in the N/I. But true I agree it is about high time democracy was restored in Northern Ireland.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Well I for 1, could care less where the pope goes aslong as he doesnt come near my neighbourhood. He can go where ever he likes.

- But you don't want him visiting near you?

Why not, what's it to you?

Would the Dali Lama rouse as much opposition?

a lot of prodestants in Scotland care what the Unionists think. You miht think it is wrong but that the way it has been for years and it will continue.

- Yes, I don't think it's much of a secret that Scotland has it's share of sectarianism (tho thankfully on a much smaller scale than in NI).

But surely the point is why would anyone, Protestant, Jew or Roman Catholic etc etc, think a Papal visit is so wrong or "unwelcome"?

What exactly is it that this Pope is supposed to have done to make him "not welcome at this time"?
The Pope, even to many non-RC people, is a good and decent man who represents peace and who has done much for peace in the world.
He (and his predecessors) have often spoken out against the politically motivated violence in places like NI and elsewhere.

He is just expressing the views of other unionists and loyalists in the N/I.

- Is he?

Cos from where I sit here in NI I don't see loads of bigots - or even unionists for that matter - especially upset in the least bit by this proposed visit.

The DUPer and so-called 'Loyalists' (who were anything but 'Loyal' last Sept in their large-scale and numerous riots and attacks on the Police & British Army) are not all of the unionists but are merely 'some of the unionists'.

I'd say many if not most unionists aren't all that bothered
(and certainly that was the view of the vox pops on our radio & TV media), this isn't the 1950's/60's any longer.

Many if not most people here in NI aren't driven by the old religious tags any longer.
Church attendance in both Protestant and RC Churches is well down.

Saying a guy who doesn't go to (any) Church is a *whatever* is pretty meaningless, right?

......and even if they did, so what?
Since when was a ludicrous and crass sectarian bigotry the basis for any rational assessment....... of anything?

DUPer types and so-called 'Loyalists' might be bigoted enough to be 'upset' about this visit (or at least pretend to be in public) but that is hardly the all 'other unionists'.

But true I agree it is about high time democracy was restored in Northern Ireland.

- I think if it was you'd find that most people (that is all the nationalists, republicans, moderate unionists and those who class themselves as 'others') hold the majority.

DUPers and so-called 'Loyalists' aren't a majority of anything in NI any longer.

In the last 'big' Nov 2003 Assembly elections the DUPers polled a shade over 25% of the vote.....but then that was largely because 'moderate unionism stayed at home'.
Their high-point was 33% in the UK Westminster general election in 2005, still only a third and no 'majority' of anything.

www.ark.ac.uk...



[edit on 31-10-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

I've always thought that the EU should have made this issue moot. The UK and Ireland are both part of the EU, so why fight over this only to be recombined?

My own take on this is that it's a matter of time, djohnsto77.

The RoI freely chose to be a member of the EU just as the UK did, many years ago, but, many nationalists and republicans in NI do not believe the British have a right to have effectively 'imported' (over the many many years) a 'British Ulster Irish' population and have them 'use a loaded form of democracy' to keep Ireland divided.
Just as many Unionists and so-called 'Loyalists' believe that they are separate and that the RoI has no right to say say in NI matters as the RoI is (to them) a totally separate and alien country.

Of course this opens up interesting questions about the rights and wrongs of 'native peoples' and those who come and settle later.

Britain's imperial involvement with Ireland goes back over approx 800yrs (and don't even mention the French, Spanish or the Norse that ended up there at various times too!) and very large population shifts were happening as long as 400yrs ago with 'the planters'.

In amongst this settling were land-grabs, 'gifts' from the British Crown (which usually came from someone already there) etc.
That kind of backdrop - along with the fabled long Irish memory - is not a formula for stability and peace.
I have heard it said that there are cases where the original owning families can show what was theirs once and taken from them.
That may be so for the big land owners but for most regular people (of either community) those issues and questions are for someone else.
Most of us or our families never had land or were ever given any etc etc.

But generally speaking if 400yrs of familial roots does not confer a 'legitimacy' to those settling then that's a hell of a lot of the worlds current political arrangements open to question!

I sometimes wonder if those Irish-Americans that are so adamant that the British Irish 'have no right etc etc' ever ponder this question in relation to themselves and their own families in the USA?

On the other side of the coin many British in the rest of the UK simply cannot understand the deep hostility of some unionists/Loyalists to Ireland and all things Irish.
Mainly this is because the rest of the UK see the people of NI as Irish and their aversion to Ireland the rest of the Irish is not only seen as deeply illogical but plain weird.

Anyhoo......

IMO the extremes of Irish nationalism and Ulster 'Loyalism' each merely 'mirror' the pig-headed, unreasonable, incredibly hostile, aggressive and closed-mind of the other.
There is no 'answer' to be found there with them IMO, they have nothing but the deepest fears, separation, violence and enmity to offer.
In short they offer nothing but yet further generations to be fed into the meat-grinder and lost or perverted by those irrational hatreds.

I agree that the EU really does make the issue moot but it is taking time to make this apparent.
We are IMO coming to terms with our situation.
We are remembering that we already share formal minimum rights and standards, thanks to the EU, as well as a centuries of obvious cultural and historic links.....this is why the under-rated 'council of the isles' East -West' institutions are so important.

It's also worth noting that NI's isolation thanks to 'the troubles' means many there have missed what happened even within the rest of the UK and in the RoI.
Emigration from Ireland to Britain throughout the whole 20th century means many many British families have close southern Irish links.
Undoubtedly far more people in the rest of the UK now have links to to southern Ireland than northern.

Far from reviling the Irish the 2nd most popular nationality for the British (after their own, of course) is, according to recent polls, Irish.

Ulster protestants inviting English/Welsh or Scots families to be hostile or fearful of their Irish Roman Catholic relatives really isn't going to make much headway.

But as I often say it took over 800yrs to get here so if this 'peace process' and the political process takes some time (even with the occasional problem and set-back) then we should not be disheartened or discouraged.

I grew up through the start and worst of 'the troubles' in the 1970's and many of not most of my generation were convinced that once started it could never end and there could be no progress.
I'm glad we were wrong.


[edit on 31-10-2006 by sminkeypinkey]