Are Catholics still excommunicated if they join..

Dont forget sex with little boys masonic light.

(the catholic priests, NOT the masons)

Originally posted by umwolves123
Dont forget sex with little boys masonic light.

(the catholic priests, NOT the masons)

umwolves,

Although (sadly) this sort of thing has happened and been covered up, keep in mind the bigger picture. The Church as a whole has done MUCH, MUCH good. Throughout it's long, long, history there have been bad Priests, there have been bad Bishops and there have been bad Popes. Some VERY bad. But they're by FAR a minority. I'm not in any way justifying their actions, please don't get me wrong. But you cannot judge the entire Church by a few bad people.

Also, bear in mind it's not just Catholic Priests who've been guilty. Throughout history men of the cloth have been guilty of this sort of thing from time to time. A sad, situation indeed.

Appak, in general I agree. However, the pedophile coverups have gone pretty high, with the present Pontiff himself being implicated (in coverup, not pedophilia).

Even an old bones heretic such as myself would consider converting if the Church would enact some much needed reform, including the excommunication of all pedophile priests and those who covered it up, and an official and public apology made to Catholic Masons, as well as the abolition of any penalty against Catholics for becoming Freemasons.

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
SSPX - Marcel Lefevbre (sp?) and the clerics he ordained are officially excommunicated

No one has been able to show me an official document stating that. Everyone SAYS IT. But no one has shown me documentation.

For more information, I'd recommend www.EWTN.com,

Actually, we volunteered at EWTN for almost a decade and we are still friends with many of the people there, including one of the priests. I went directly to them and none of them came up with an official document. All they said was what you said - 'they are excommunicated' ... but no one could show me an exact 'ye verily ...' document.


We really are curious so if anyone does have the offiicial documentation, please post. Thanks.

Originally posted by Nygdan
On paper at least, catholics can't be freemasons.

That is absolutely true. Catholics are not allowed to be freemasons. If they are, then they are secret freemasons or the Bishop isn't really following the rules and is turning a blind eye.

OFFICIALLY - Catholics are not allowed to be Freemasons.

FlyersFan,

I'm confused. In one post, among other things, you say the following:

Originally posted by FlyersFan
No one has been able to show me an official document stating that. Everyone SAYS IT. But no one has shown me documentation.

Actually, we volunteered at EWTN for almost a decade and we are still friends with many of the people there, including one of the priests. I went directly to them and none of them came up with an official document. All they said was what you said - 'they are excommunicated' ... but no one could show me an exact 'ye verily ...' document.

We really are curious so if anyone does have the offiicial documentation, please post. Thanks.

THEN, in the following post you say:

Originally posted by FlyersFan
OFFICIALLY - Catholics are not allowed to be Freemasons.

Am I missing something? Which is it? Have YOU SEEN "official" documentation?

I've told my story on here already and have no problem being both. I also have no problem with birth-control, either, though...because I've NEVER seen any statement from the Church that made sense about it, but I digress.

I figure the day I get an official Vatican letter from His Holiness telling me to get out of Freemasonry or get out of the Church, I'll get out.

Official Documentation directly from the Vatican Website on Masonic Associations, from former Cardinal Ratziner, now Pope Benedict XVI

www.vatican.va...

I haven't got a chance to read the replies but wanted to post this before I lost the link again. Also looking for another offical site thread that stated the opposite of below posting, something of the like of no excommunication but still a considered a sin.

From the Vatican

www.vatican.va...

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS




It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

----
Quaesitum_est (Quaesitum est is a declaration by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith forbidding Roman Catholics from joining Masonic organizations. It was issued in 1983 by the prefect of the congregation, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, better known now as Pope Benedict XVI.)
en.wikipedia.org...

Quaesitum Est 1983 to present:
en.wikipedia.org...-Now.29

Canon Law Regarding Freemasonry (1983-Now)

[edit] Present Legislation
Can. 1374 A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.


[edit] Is 1374 different from 2335?
In can 2335 Masonry is mentioned but in 1374 is not. Since the new canon law did not specifically mention Masonry any issues or questions about Roman Catholics with Masonic associations was clarified by the document Quaesitum est which can be summarized by the statement that "...the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden."

Originally posted by yeht
Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden.

There are three universal masonic principles - Brotherly Love (fellowship), relief (charity) and Truth (integrity). I'd be interested in knowing which one of these are in conflict with the doctrine of the Catholic church.

Originally posted by Appak
I'm confused. Am I missing something? Which is it?

I was talking about SSPX. Everyone says that SSPX is excommunicated but when I have asked priests who should know .. and when I have done searches ... no one has an official document.

I was shown official documentation (years ago) that said Catholics couldn't become Masons. But no one has ever been able to show me official SSPX documentation.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Appak
I'm confused. Am I missing something? Which is it?

I was talking about SSPX. Everyone says that SSPX is excommunicated but when I have asked priests who should know .. and when I have done searches ... no one has an official document.

I was shown official documentation (years ago) that said Catholics couldn't become Masons. But no one has ever been able to show me official SSPX documentation.

Oops! Mea Culpa! I was reading without completely comprehending

Must have had Decaf this a.m.

Originally posted by Trinityman
I'd be interested in knowing which one of these are in conflict with the doctrine of the Catholic church.

its simple politics though. The church was THE authority, masonry was anti-authority, or at least pro-liberty, and thus, it was in conflict with the church. Along witht the 3 virtues you noted for regular freemasonry, there are others, like radical liberalism and support for rationalism, that are in freemasonry, that set it up against the church in general. Those aren't exactly bad things to promote, but it does seem that thats what the church is opposed to; that masonry supported free-thought and personal liberty, at a time when the RCC was direct temporal ruler of much of europe. And when the last of the papal states were crushed, it was under the boot of guys like Garibaldi. So of course the church is still "smarting" over it.

Its funny. I am a Lutheran and just this year (July 24th) I became a Master Mason. Since then I have not been denied anything at services but the pastor will hardly talk to me. I have asked why and got no reply, only a look at my ring or tietack. Maybe it is something totaly different, I dont know. Could this with the Catholic Church have something to do with it?

Originally posted by Ajax35
Its funny. I am a Lutheran and just this year (July 24th) I became a Master Mason. Since then I have not been denied anything at services but the pastor will hardly talk to me. I have asked why and got no reply, only a look at my ring or tietack. Maybe it is something totaly different, I dont know. Could this with the Catholic Church have something to do with it?

I don't think so. It may be co-incidence of course, but if the pastor's behavior is related to your decision to join freemasonry then I would imagine this is just his personal prejudice and ignorance rather than a more widespread anti-masonic movement in Lutherism. I know of at least one Lutheran who was a mason and a shriner.

My understanding is that the Catholic Church's "problem" with Freemasonry are:

1) Its history of hostility to Catholicism, whether real or perceived.
2) Its concept (pershaps not official, but in fact) of "undefined deism"

Originally posted by Ajax35
Its funny. I am a Lutheran and just this year (July 24th) I became a Master Mason. Since then I have not been denied anything at services but the pastor will hardly talk to me. I have asked why and got no reply, only a look at my ring or tietack. Maybe it is something totaly different, I dont know. Could this with the Catholic Church have something to do with it?

Don't know which Synod you're in, but some Lutherans have a VERY dim view of Masonry:

www.lcms.org...

Like Trinityman, though, I have a friend who's a Lutheran, a very active Mason and Shriner.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Catholics are Prohibited from joining freemasonry by the Church. There isn't much of an effort within the church to find out who is doing this, but its still prohibited and a catholic who joins is subject to excommunication.

Subliminal mind control *cough* *cough*

i find it interesting that the qouted can says "Hostile to the church" when history shows that it was the church that was always hostile to the freemasons.

and while the masons may have historically opposed the church, in the church's campaign of social and spiritual dominance. i have never seen any active plot to go on the offensive against the church.

Originally posted by Becon of Light
i find it interesting that the qouted can says "Hostile to the church" when history shows that it was the church that was always hostile to the freemasons.

and while the masons may have historically opposed the church, in the church's campaign of social and spiritual dominance. i have never seen any active plot to go on the offensive against the church.

While there was never an overt offensive against the Church, the ideals that Masonry espoused at the time were so anti-establishment, that even as a Mason, I can understand how they would view our brothers as "on the attack."

Speaking of on the attack, where did the Knights of Columbus pop up from? (One of my best friends who is a Catholic Knight has very little knowledge, despite knowing I am a Free Mason, where his orders roots came from.)

wow i guess they are not allowed to join after all....


WHO THE HELL DO THEY THINK THEY ARE? (the Church)

members cant join because masonry wont bend its ways to become a christian society? that's friggin BS!!!!! it's not evil it and all it does are good things, but apparently not good enough for the so called holy church. the same church whos priests BANG little boys and cover it up. the same church who hired assassigns in the medievel times and burned innocent people at the stake, the same church that did NOTHIING durring WWII when their own memebers were fighting and dieing. (and the same church who elects one of HITLERS YOUTH to be their leader.)

This makes me more mad then any troll, then any anti mason, then any ignorang bafoon.

HOW can you create so much wrong, and evil doing, and then tell you own members they are not allowed to belong to something good and worth while? that they would be living in sin!?

i want all memebers who are reading this post to realize this is not the official belief of masonry at all, this is only MY PERSONAL IDEALS.

not a tear would be shed from these eyes if the church fell and the vatican burned to the growned they so maliciously walk apon!