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Are Catholics still excommunicated if they join..

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posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 11:24 PM
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Hi

I am curious if Catholics are excommunicated if they join Masonry or DeMolay still?

Does anyone know if there is a text that states the basis of excommunication of Catholics that have joined such societies?

Also a note for reference:
The following groups at one time if not still at present brought on excommunication upon membership by a Catholic:

Call to Action,
the Society of St. Pius X
DeMolay International.

This is not a complete list.




posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 11:34 PM
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no not at all, actually we have a number of members who are also knights of columbus.

But no they are not.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 12:40 AM
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Thanks any idea of when that ended? Also are you aware if DeMolay is still in effect?


Originally posted by umwolves123
no not at all, actually we have a number of members who are also knights of columbus.

But no they are not.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 06:57 AM
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Yes, and no...I don't think there is an official "excommunication", that term/action is used very sparingly after the back-and-forth excommunications of Luther and the Patriarch of Constantinople, however, there is officially a "strong prohibition" against joining Masonic groups, and as such, known members are encouraged to avoid the sacraments until they renounce such membership (its very rare when someone is denied the sacraments when one is Catholic).

Are there Catholic Freemasons? Absolutely. Are there Catholic clerics involved in Freemasonry? Probably, but that does not mean any prohibition has been lifted.

Zhenyghi, KHS



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 09:34 AM
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Catholics are Prohibited from joining freemasonry by the Church. There isn't much of an effort within the church to find out who is doing this, but its still prohibited and a catholic who joins is subject to excommunication.

Of course, why would a catholic join freemasonry and be concerned about excommunication anyway? Its something of a contradiction, to be a 'conservative old school catholic' AND a freemason.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 09:45 AM
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Certainly hoe not, I am joinng soon and do not want trouble with my church lol.

But really how would they even know.. I mean unless my priest or pastor was at a temple as well!


I don't think the Church even does excomunications anymore.. never heared of a modern one anyways..



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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If you are a catholic, you are not permited to join freemasonry. If your preist finds out, I suspect he will inform you of such. Its possible that he might deny you from receiving communion, and he might report you to the bishop. Its at that point that hte possibility of being excommunicated would start to be considered, I suspect.

The church does still do excommunications, usually when its threatened, people 'correct' themselves to avoid it.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by yeht
I am curious if Catholics are excommunicated if they join Masonry or DeMolay still?


Masonry .. yes. If you get caught. I don't think most priests or bishops even think about it anymore .. but technically yes.

St. Pius X?? GOOD QUESTION. My husband and I have been looking at St. Pius X for a few years and trying to figure it out. They claim they are not excommunicated. Most Novus Ordo priests say that they are. However, when challenged to find documentation from the Vatican stating that St. Pius X people are excommuncated none have been able to produce any documents.

To further muddy the waters ... recently there were sacraments bestowed by St. Pius X priests in Hawaii. Their validity was called into question. Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict) issued a statement saying that the sacraments that the St. Pius X 'Hawaian Six' had administered were valid.

They couldn't be valid if they were excommunicated. So obviously they weren't excommunicated.

So when it comes to St. Pius X ... you can find stories and opinions that go both ways. BTW .. the MASS of St. Pius X is fantastic. We like the mass a lot. It's the other stuff that we don't go for - women have to wear head coverings; only Catholics in good standing will go to heaven ... that kind of thing. Great Mass ... but the rest is over the top for us.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 11:54 AM
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My lodge, which is considered pretty esoteric and philosophically oriented. We have an ordained Priest who is a Brother, given I was there for a year or so before I learned this; but the fact remains. Was always curious why he could not take any criticsm that might in any way relate to Christianity.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 01:58 PM
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I've told this story (partially) on this forum before. But I joined the Catholic Church sometime back. I approached the Parish Priest (whom I'd met a few times) and told him my desire to join. I proceeded to tell him that I am a Mason as well. After much discussion, he asked me if Freemasonry interfered with my Christian beliefs. I replied that it did not and it COULD not interfere with anyone's religious beliefs, if they truly understand Freemasonry. He said "I see no problem with that"

When I signed up for RCIA (the educational process necessary to become Catholic) one of the questions on the form I filled out was "Are you a member of any secret organizations such as Masons, etc?" To which I responded "Yes. Freemason." Sometime later I met with our Bishop (I attend a Cathedral Church so he's often there) and we discussed it. He, too, indicated that there was no problem and said that we had quite a number of Masons in our Parish.

My thoughts on the subject are:

I was open an honest to my Priest, my Bishop AND on my RCIA application

Freemasonry is my fraternity, NOT my religion.

I wear my Masonic ring every day...everywhere I go, including to Mass several times a week.

On an interesting side note (Chief_Counsellor and I have been talking via U2U) I took the 1st Degree of the Knights of Columbus early last month and yesterday I received the 2nd & 3rd Degrees.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 02:07 PM
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I am completely stunned! On paper at least, catholics can't be freemasons. I think that its largely up to the local bishop really, is that your understanding Appak?



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

I am completely stunned! On paper at least, catholics can't be freemasons. I think that its largely up to the local bishop really, is that your understanding Appak?


I believe that it is. Several years ago before I joined the Catholic Church a friend of mine, who was Catholic, wanted to become a Mason and just not tell anyone. I refused to sign his petition until he spoke with his Parish Priest. I even offered to visit with his Priest and answer any questions he had. The Priest told him that he saw no problem with him becoming a Mason and would leave it to his own conscience, that if he found it incompatible with Catholicism, to get out.

He's been a member for 10+ years now and a darned good one (and a darned good Catholic as well)



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 10:58 PM
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it's really cool that, atleast on a local level, the catholic church hasnt started to loosen up on the matter of freemason membership.

i think we can all agree that it was a mostly politcal reason for the vatican to ban catholics from joining the masons, and while i am usually the first to bring up the checkered past of the church.. this is deffinetly a step in the right direction



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 11:01 PM
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A local ordinary (bishop) cannot (officially) dispense the prohibition against Freemasonry, although I suspect that its probably done unofficially (have a blind eye turned to it) on a case-by-case basis when in the rare cases it is brought to his attention.

RE: SSPX - Marcel Lefevbre (sp?) and the clerics he ordained are officially excommunicated since they were the principal agents of the acts in question. The official position of the SSPX and its adherents is that of schism, but I believe that some partial or even full communion will come to pass with the current Pope.

With SSPX sacraments, its not an issue of validity, but a matter of whether they are licit.

For more information, I'd recommend checking the Q&A section on www.EWTN.com, using a keyword search.

Zhenyghi



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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I'm not Catholic so forgive me if I'm wrong. Ratzinger being (somewhat) liberal? I apologize, because I found Pope John Paul II one of the finest men to have ever blessed us with his presence. Pope Benedict helping the cause of anything that does not "walk the line" I find that a bit hard to stomach.

I pray that Ratzinger (as portrayed by his age) is here to merely serve as a transition from the traditional idea of Catholicism to one which will be universally acceptable, and that ALL will embrace.



posted on Oct, 30 2006 @ 11:45 PM
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P.S. as an outside observer, there were so many more qualified men for the papacy. For the Conclave to continue electing a Pope from Europe simply continues to show it's incapacity for change. When Africa and Latin America are the only remaining sources of growth in Catholicism, and the Church will not realize such a fact....complete ignorance.



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 01:29 AM
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Just to let you know i went to a catholic priest today and asked him this very question, and YES catholics are permitted to join freemasonry as long as that perticular lodge does NOT have anti christian beliefs. same goes for de moley.

However Iowa and this is the only state in the whole 50 states still will not permit you to become one for some reason...unknown to the priest. But he did say that yes it is completely alright in the other 49 states to belong to freemasonry.



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 10:12 AM
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A priest (or local bishop) does not have the authority to offer any dispensation to join the Masons without penalty.

There is no such Vatican statement lifting the ban on Freemasonry (although there was one in the last 50 years or so that was ambiguous on the matter).

Rome has since make a more-recent statement that makes it clear that Catholics are forbidden to be Freemasons. I don't know the title of the statement offhand, but it can be found via a keyword search at Catholic Q and A on www.EWTN.com, or via www.newadvent.org

The comment from the priest you asked is either:
1) his personal opinion
2) his personal statement of belief

Neither of which are binding nor authoritative



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Baphomet79
P.S. as an outside observer, there were so many more qualified men for the papacy. For the Conclave to continue electing a Pope from Europe simply continues to show it's incapacity for change. When Africa and Latin America are the only remaining sources of growth in Catholicism, and the Church will not realize such a fact....complete ignorance.


Well you not being a Catholic why do you care who is the pope?? ..

The reason power remains within the Europeans is because America and Europe are still where the money comes from, and like all great and large organizations, they reward those who donate. Latin America and Africa could offer some great popes, I just don't see that happen because they do not want to hurt their dwindling American and European numbers.

As for excomunication, do not make it appear so easy, I can assure you that excomunicating someone is very rare, and certainly not for something as silly as joining a fraternity.

Also Benidict is actually more conservative then John Paul was, and yes he is a transitional pope. The cardinals do not like popes that rule for long periods of time to begin with, John Paul lead an extra long term, so naturally they chose someone who will most likely die within a decade or two and then they will most likely vote in a pope who will rule for a more extended period of time.

If you believe in St. Malachie then he will be known as Peter the Roman.



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by umwolves123
Just to let you know i went to a catholic priest today and asked him this very question, and YES catholics are permitted to join freemasonry as long as that perticular lodge does NOT have anti christian beliefs. same goes for de moley.

However Iowa and this is the only state in the whole 50 states still will not permit you to become one for some reason...unknown to the priest. But he did say that yes it is completely alright in the other 49 states to belong to freemasonry.




A few years ago, Cardinal Ratzinger, now the Roman Pontiff, issued a statement approved by John Paul II saying that Catholics who are members of Freemasonry are in a state of grave sin, and may not receive communion (i.e., are excommunicated). This is the official stance of the Roman Catholic Church, and is in effect worldwide.

Granted, it is widely ignored, especially in the US, where other prohibitions are ignored too (birth control, remarriage, etc.).






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