Michigan Middle School Terrorized..by Cops?!

Originally posted by snafu7700

guess you didnt read my whole post, since you just paraphrased most of it.

Yes I did, and you still dont get it. You still think getting the police more involved is the way to go. This is but a temporary messure, and does not need to involve the public to train for it.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Yes I did, and you still dont get it. You still think getting the police more involved is the way to go. This is but a temporary messure, and does not need to involve the public to train for it.

obviously you didnt read it, because i made it very clear that the underlying problem lies with both the parents and the school systems in general. the cops being involved proves that fact. nobody wants to step up to the plate and fix the problem at it's source, and yet they want to berate those who are forced to do something when no one else will.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Why do so many people think its ok for our rights to slip because there are other countries with less rights?

where did i mention that it was ok for our rights to slip away? i am saying that those with fewer rights seem to be the ones jumping on the "america is going to hell in a handbasket" wagon...and usually with very little knowledge of what the hell theyre talking about.

If you dont like freedom why dont you go move to China, and leave the home of the free, to the BRAVE.

tell it to somebody who hasnt served his country. i've got my dd214 and it says honorable discharge on it. how about you my friend?

Originally posted by snafu7700

tell it to somebody who hasnt served his country. i've got my dd214 and it says honorable discharge on it. how about you my friend?

I serve my country everyday when I light up the red lights my friend. I didnt do it as an air traffic controller if you want to get snotty. I do it by putting MY ass on the line, every day!

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

I serve my country everyday when I light up the red lights my friend. I didnt do it as an air traffic controller if you want to get snotty. I do it by putting MY ass on the line, every day!

i know what you do, and good on ya. but you knew i was a vet and still decided to pull out the bravery card. if you cant take it, dont dish it out.

incidently, every sailor is a fireman first and foremost, just as every marine is a rifleman first and foremost, and i've fought one. even controllers end up TAD to crash/fire/rescue when theyre shorthanded. seems like a real fireman would have known that.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
You still think getting the police more involved is the way to go. This is but a temporary messure, and does not need to involve the public to train for it.

The Sheriff was quoted in the paper saying this was supposed to be a drill on how a school is evacuated during certain situations and was not solely training for the police but also so the students and staff had an opportunity to see what exactly would be expected of them in certain situations.

We keep hamming on the police for being there but the article clearly states it was the school principal who decided not to inform students or parents and barely told staff one hour out. The sheriff is quoted as saying that he was under the impression everyone had been made aware of the training. The principal made the bad decision ... let's leave the blame where it belongs.

As far as the argument for this training not being neccessary ... I can see both sides of the argument. 100%, without a doubt the parents should've been notified so they could decide if they wanted their child present during such an excercise. Since this isn't a typical school activity the school should have made that disclosure. I don't think I would mind my child being made aware of what happens in the aftermath of a school lockdown during a true emergency ... more knowledge makes anyone more prepared for the situation.

However, it is obvious these kids learned little or nothing from this because no one bothered to tell them there was going to be a drill. So I would imagine for the most part they were just left rattled and scared. I, as a parent, would be irate that there was no notification as well. But I wouldn't be yelling at the sheriff's dept .. I would be at the school district yelling at them to reprimand the man responsible.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas

The Sheriff was quoted in the paper saying this was supposed to be a drill on how a school is evacuated during certain situations and was not solely training for the police but also so the students and staff had an opportunity to see what exactly would be expected of them in certain situations.

I understand that, and I thank you for trying to make it clear. You are gong to do what train the students once per year so each grade understands it? You are an officer correct? I have plenty of buddies that are and I can tell when I m talkng to one. (usually) you know as well as I do this one drill does nothing for them. When the adreniline is pumping you and I both know its pure training that gets us through. The other portion that makes the scene not fall apart are the Capt., chiefs, and leit. that are detached from the assault (whether structure fire my side of the fence, or a hostage situation the police side) and doesnt have the mind killing adreneline pumping.

Those citizens will panic no matter what. I dont think it is the police itself that is the problem, it is what is being handed down to them in a steaming pile of you no what, that they have to respond too. The special assault cop didnt decide to raid that school. The ones that did make that desicion though, I think have an agenda.

If you are an officer, much respect sir I see your faces are as distraught as ours when the accident scenes are bad...

[edit on 30-10-2006 by LoneGunMan]

Originally posted by snafu7700
incidently, every sailor is a fireman first and foremost, just as every marine is a rifleman first and foremost, and i've fought one. even controllers end up TAD to crash/fire/rescue when theyre shorthanded. seems like a real fireman would have known that.

Sorry but they dont mention sailors in the fire accadamy. Unless maybe one were to train for being on a fire boat. Heck I thought you were ariforce I didnt know you were on a carrier.

Carrier work on deck is the most dangerous job out there I do believe. I wasnt trying to ding on you bravery either, hell I get scared sometimes myself, I would be crazy if I didnt. I just get tired of the, they have less freedom that us so we shouldnt bitch about ours.

Know what I mean jellybean?

Welcome to the NWO. Enjoy your life as your personal freedoms are peeled away layer by layer. It's the beginning of the end. We should be ashamed of what our society has morphed into. Saying that this is a deplorable act is an understatement. Most disturbing.

[edit on 30-10-2006 by carnival_of_souls2047]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
When the adreniline is pumping you and I both know its pure training that gets us through. The other portion that makes the scene not fall apart are the Capt., chiefs, and leit. that are detached from the assault (whether structure fire my side of the fence, or a hostage situation the police side) and doesnt have the mind killing adreneline pumping.

Those citizens will panic no matter what. I dont think it is the police itself that is the problem, it is what is being handed down to them in a steaming pile of you no what, that they have to respond too. The special assault cop didnt decide to raid that school. The ones that did make that desicion though, I think have an agenda.
[edit on 30-10-2006 by LoneGunMan]

No I don't think training the students once a year makes sense ... the fiscal commitment alone seems kind of steep. It seems like it was a well intentioned but badly thought out idea by school and police administration. Had the parents been kept in the loop perhaps there would've been enough outlash ahead of time to stop the event.

As far as the police and training taking over while adrenaline is pumping and all that. Yes it's true in any life threatening event (for police/fire or any citizen) adrenaline will set in ... most people use it to run away .. some people have to focus it and use it to respond. I wasn't really thinking of the benefit of this event for the police officers ... other than just another training excercise getting used to school layouts, multiple classrooms and controlling chaos.

What I was thinking (but not neccessarily agreeing with) was the student and staff benefit. School lockdowns are pretty much standard during any time of potentially violatile situation. In the fairly small city I live in (approx 50-60k) we have had 3-4 in the last year. None of these were for the dreaded "active shooter" scenario or thankfully for any hostage/barricade situation.

But nowadays any type of mobile threat is treated differently ... say a suspect with a knife takes off running from an officer, if they're within a certain distance of a school there's a good chance that school will get told to go into lockdown. Normally these end with another phone call saying all is well and the lockdown can be ended.

One of the local situations here was a threat, albeit a bogus threat, from a 13yr old with a stolen cellphone ... he called 911 several times and said he had a gun and was going to shootup XX School today. Wonderful technology ... not knowing where he was calling from the school was put into lockdown.

The response from the local police was pretty much duplicate of what the article states. The school was locked down ... some students and teachers remembered to barricade their rooms, some did not. The campus was surrounded and a couple SWAT style teams swept the open areas of the school to ensure no one was wandering around. Each classroom was emptied and the students were patted down (in case the threat was real and the suspect had changed his mind or was waiting) and the kids were lead out from the school one class room at a time.

Obviously parents/teachers/students were pretty scared and some people were upset and thought this could've been handled differently. In my opinion this was the perfect response, every threat has to be treated as real until you can be sure it is not. In the end the suspect was caught with the stolen phone still in his possession ... not sure how much he got as a juvenile with no record, probably probation.

I'm just playing devils advocate here and saying had the children been aware of the procedures that take place during these type of situations they might've been a little more at ease during those couple hours ... since they would know what would be happening next.

Does that alone justify the training? Maybe ... maybe not. That is why the parental notification is critical. I see some problems with the implementation and possibly the idea in general. I see the argument that this is a school and schools are for education and why are we wasting our childrens time with this. But here in Califronia we do fire drill evacuations (few times a year) and they used to do earthquake drillls ... sadly they have started doing lockdown drills where the kids barricade their room and shelter in place. So does this fit into line with those sort of preventive training drills? Would you pull a kid out of school so they didn't have to deal with a fire drill?

I just dont see what some others are saying is a conspiracy to strip away peoples rights and to create a military state. We all (me, you, the police, the government, etc) want our kids to be safe ... unfortunately dangerous events at schools is part of a real threat ... each school and parent needs to decide what is the correct for their local community.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas

I just dont see what some others are saying is a conspiracy to strip away peoples rights and to create a military state. We all (me, you, the police, the government, etc) want our kids to be safe ... unfortunately dangerous events at schools is part of a real threat ... each school and parent needs to decide what is the correct for their local community.

I think part of hy some people are thinking like this (including myself) is because it seems the public is being desensitized to military style police action. Back in the late 90s it was being done in some pretty major ways in some Texas towns. Since then the police have been becoming more predatory. Using black slimline cars to catch speeders is just to tax the people. Deterent is a well marked car, it does not deter people to have an unmarked car, this is when the government has become the stalker of its citizens. You have police dressing like they are some kind o militarized hiding there faces modern stormtroopers. As people see this and so much more than I can think of right now (cant think my sinus has been killing me today) that it makes them a little fast with the conspiracy trigger.

Originally posted by slayerfan
thats about 30 miles from me and in my town in the last month or so a cop car,
high scool room and football feild have been set on fire.but the cops going that far is VARY uncalld for

when the cops do stuff like that in the long run it can hurt
how kids percive them and the kids will learn to hate the police and intern create more vilance

www.woodtv.com...

www.woodtv.com...

[edit on 28-10-2006 by slayerfan]

Ya not that far from me either....which is why i can't wait to move.

That's nuthin. About a month ago, a single cop in Nebraska managed to terrorize schools over a three county area:

10-5-06
hosted.ap.org/dynamic/sto...SECTION=US
Nebreska Deputy Arrested in School Threat
BASSETT, Neb. (AP)
-- A rookie sheriff's deputy was arrested in connection with a school shooting threat that led to public school lockdowns in three counties earlier this week, officials said Friday.
The Nebraska State Patrol said Ivan D. Young, 41, of Beatrice, was being held in the Rock County Jail. Patrol spokeswoman Deb Collins did not say what led to Young's arrest but said he had worked as a deputy in Holt County since August. .... The schools in Nebraska's Brown, Rock and Holt counties, a rural area covering some 5,000 square miles, were locked down Wednesday when a reporter at a local newspaper--the Rock County Leader-- received an anonymous call from a man(later tracked through his cell phone) who said there would be a shooting at one of the schools.

www.nebraska.tv/news/local/4325657.html
pic here - must see!


Ironically, this anonymous threat was proceeded by another the day before in Culpepper County, Va, which was phoned in directly to an emergency dispatch center. And even though the perp made multiple calls, one of which was described as "lengthy," the police were allegedly unable to trace the call. Though every school and several day care centers in the whole county were shut down; and the response involved state cops, the FBI and the ATF.