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Covenant and UNSC verus the armies of our Earth

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posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 11:15 AM
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If my memory is correct, I believe that Halo takes place somewhere around 2555.

No wonder the UNSC is loosing big time because its 2555 and their still using gunpowder. The United States in 2038 could kick their butts with all of these new weapon systems coming out. And the UNSC still cannot make a rail gun in a smaller size? Pathetic! From what I have heard about the F-14, the Warthog would be useless against its long range capabilites. And the Longsword fighter/bombers look very easy to see on radar. Russian SAMS could easilly take it out. And for Master Cheif, well a good old rocket launcher could take him out just like that. They should have lasers and energy weapons by now and they should have better medical technology too. Cyborgs in real life would probably already been made before 2100 and the Spartans arent exactly real cyborgs except for metal bones which seem like their strong but they still break.

Now for the Covenant, Banshees are too slow and their range isn't long enough to win against the F-22. Now that would be an unbalanced match. The Paladin of the USA could win against a wraith right now and even when the new homing shell comes out. The Wraiths don't have trackers and their range isn't long enough. Plus they are too slow and the T90 and M1A1 can out run it and dodge it's plasma blobs. And theres this one rocket artillery machine the US has but I dont know the name of it but it can easially take out a pack of Covenant soldiers. Now about the strategy of the Covenant, Adolf Hitler can out smart them. Ever read Halo Fall of Reach? Well there this one line that says the Covenent are less intellegant than humans. And if you think thats not true because of their technology? Well most of what they had came from the Forerunner.




posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 11:22 AM
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video game theories are kew



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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While you do point out some good points and I do think the UNSC should have advanced more, there are some things that I have to point out.

First and foremost, it's the UN, so it's not as if you can expect much. But moving along.


Originally posted by wildcat
No wonder the UNSC is loosing big time because its 2555 and their still using gunpowder. The United States in 2038 could kick their butts with all of these new weapon systems coming out. And the UNSC still cannot make a rail gun in a smaller size? Pathetic!


I've actually been writing a science fiction story of my own and I gave this some thought and came to one conclusion. Railguns are entirely reliant on an uninterupted supply of electricity. If an enemy were to us EM weapons on your position and all you had was railguns you'd find yourself without a single weapon aside from say a knife. The nice thing about gunpowder weapons is that those things will always work so long as you maintain them right. Assuming that we continue down the same road we have been we can expect futuristic firearms to basically work in any condition. Railguns however are going to be less reliable, more delicate, and probably more expensive. It's entirely possible that they'd still be too expensive by 2500's to equip infantry with.


From what I have heard about the F-14, the Warthog would be useless against its long range capabilites.


Well yeah, the F-14 is a long range interceptor and the Warthog is basically just a Jeep. As awesome as a Jeep is it's not going to be much match against any interceptor. Whether it be the fight plane of tomorrow or a WWII era Mustang the Jeep doesn't stand much chance.


And the Longsword fighter/bombers look very easy to see on radar. Russian SAMS could easilly take it out.


If one hundred years ago you showed a picture of a B-2 to someone they would probably tell you that it would not fly. Show a picture of an F-22 about fifty years ago and they would tell you that Soviet radar would easily pick it up. Radar stealth usually has very little to do with what's visibly apparent. For all we know the Longsword is coated in radar absorbent paint and likely takes advantage of electronic warfare capabilities. For all we know it could be armed with a point defense laser like what they're developing for the F-35.


And for Master Cheif, well a good old rocket launcher could take him out just like that.


It'd be a waste of a rocket. Your typical RPG launcher is not cut out for taking out infantry at any range. It's not a matter of lacking the firepower so much as it's just cumbersome to aim. Half the strength of the Master Chief is the fact that he's a trained soldier rather than an amateur in a cool suit. Anything piloted by someone who doesn't know what they're doing is easily susceptible to an RPG-7, and so are highly trained pilots to an extent.


They should have lasers and energy weapons by now and they should have better medical technology too.


As I pointed out earlier, some of that really advanced stuff just isn't as reliable as the tired and true stuff. While energy weapons may be nice and all they're just not practical for mass production, distribution, and upkeep in a war covering countless lightyears.


Cyborgs in real life would probably already been made before 2100 and the Spartans arent exactly real cyborgs except for metal bones which seem like their strong but they still break.


Also as mentioned, the Spartans derive their effectiveness not from the equipment but from the people operating the equipment.


Now for the Covenant, Banshees are too slow and their range isn't long enough to win against the F-22. Now that would be an unbalanced match.


Once again that's a no brainer. The F-22 is an air superiority fighter while the Banshee is a mass produced ground support craft. Pretty much any MiG could easily take out an Apache helicopter, but we still use Apaches. The Banshee simply isn't an air superiority fighter, it's a very different craft made for a very different role with very different strengths and weaknesses.


The Paladin of the USA could win against a wraith right now and even when the new homing shell comes out. The Wraiths don't have trackers and their range isn't long enough.


Personally I never viewed the Wraith so much as an artillery weapon in the same sense as the Paladin. The Paladin is a very precise artillery weapon which is designed to hit vehicles and specific buildings and destroy them. I felt that the Wraith was more of an infantry and light vehicle supression weapon. Note the fact that it's ammunition supply seems to be endless and the wide dispersal of the plasma. I think it's more so to either clear out fortifications and to act as suppression fire.


Plus they are too slow and the T90 and M1A1 can out run it and dodge it's plasma blobs.


Only if they see it coming, which isn't always possible in the chaos of war. And just keep in mind that the Wraith can be used to move a tank out of a fortified position where it could be taken out by Hunters or something.


And theres this one rocket artillery machine the US has but I dont know the name of it but it can easially take out a pack of Covenant soldiers.


I think you're referring to the MLRS, which is a very unique system even in today's world. But basically the MLRS is made for roughly the same purpose, wide dispersal of munitions to create wide areas of denial. However the Wraith does still have the ammunition issue on its side. It carries much more of it (MLRS carries 12 missiles) and can fire faster (it takes about a minute to fire the entire load of 12 missiles). Now I personally think that the MLRS is the more effective system the Wraith is better in sustained support and mobility.


Now about the strategy of the Covenant, Adolf Hitler can out smart them. Ever read Halo Fall of Reach? Well there this one line that says the Covenent are less intellegant than humans. And if you think thats not true because of their technology? Well most of what they had came from the Forerunner.


This is very true, and this is exactly how they're beaten in Halo. But on the downside they're at least smart enough to glass any planet that they can't win on the ground. Seeing as right now no one on Earth has a bunch of MAC batteries in orbit it's kind of obvious who wins the space battle. Chance's are they'd simply glass every continent but Africa. And the only reason they wouldn't glass Africa is because they'd probably want to get their hands on the Ark.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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The overall problem with universes that develop around games is that they are generally centered around the limitations of the game's own dynamics. Battletech is another instance of this. It's as if we forgot about radar and long-range air-to-surface missiles.

Though one thing I appreciate, greatly, about the Battletech universe is how things have changed - yet they have not changed in its depiction of the future. Sure - there's some new technologies - but society, as a whole, is mostly the same as it always was. Humans are still humans - and you wouldn't even know the difference when in the more rural regions of the BT universe.

Halo is somewhat similar. And you have to remember - it's a game and a scifi sort of deal.

However, if you really want to put it all under a microscope - the entire face of war is different in Halo. The idea is that you have stellar transatmospheric ships, such as In Amber Clad deploy forces on-location. So the idea of long-ranged combat really becomes less of an issue as any of that is settled in naval engagements. Honestly - what's a Phoenix missile or an AMRAAM going to do to the hull of a ship designed to withstand something more powerful than a 16" superheavy round - aside from make it hard for the crew to get a good night's sleep because of all the banging?

One thing I think is overlooked in Halo, though, is the importance of "Old Navy" equipment. I've long been saying that the dreadnought will return in the form of a mobile orbital defense matrix centered around railgun/gauss technology. With the commissioning of a stellar class ship possibly within the next forty years or less (my own estimate - just seems to be the way things are going), we will need a mobile system that can search for, track, and engage targets in orbit. Land systems are nice, but only some 30% of our planet's surface is land. And a giant tank the size of a small football stadium doesn't sound very practical to me, either.

However, with advances in composite armor and metal alloys, as well as point-defense systems, power generation systems, and CAD, the large dreadnought with variable-velocity railguns would be capable of providing reasonably accurate ground support, engage airborne threats, and orbital threats. Recent advances in lasers; laser tracking systems and laser weapon systems; have shown that even the most lethal munitions can be thwarted by a point-defense system utilizing lasers - such as JDAM, JSOW, and Anti-ship missiles.

Anyway - we're realizing today that the ships of today's navy are not really the best match for their opposition. Being designed to fight a war of attrition with Russia - the idea was to get as many missiles in the air as possible and shoot as many down as you possibly could before they hit you. Spending a lot of resources on armor that could simply be defeated by using a bigger missile (which was the logical solution to thicker armor) was seen as a waste.

But in more modern times, this lack of armor has been a bit of a problem as we have taken up anti-terrorism roles and anti-piracy roles in various waters and been exposed to increasing amounts of direct-fire situations. Some (USS Cole) at point blank - nearly sinking the ship (the media sort of blew the Cole bombing off as if it was a minor inconvenience to the crew... it was a miracle that ship survived.... a damned miracle... or - not a miracle of the ship - a miracle of the crew; a very fine crew to save the ship in the condition she was in).

The logical solution is a ship designed "to take a hit." With recent developments involving various 'unfriendly' (not hostile, but not our best buds, either) countries purchasing Kilo and Akula class subs from Russia - structural design considerations should take the threat of torpedoes into account, as well as aerial deployed penetrator weapons and anti-ship missiles. Outfitting the ship for ASW operations would be advised.

Anyway - you can see that the "Old Navy" - prior to space flight - would still have a lot of influence over the defense of the planet. Since you could have entire floating cities capable of moving to engage (or just moving to get out of the way of) threats - the presence of an Aegis cruiser - simply to relay tactical information to situational awareness networks - would be the type of thing that changes the outcome of a battle. Now imagine it having a few MAC guns on it.... imagine being the Covenant seeing this thing come cruising out of a cave and open up in a full broadside on them..... I wouldn't be a happy covienaut.

But, as I said, it's a game and sci-fi universe. Now I'm just waiting for "HALO RPG" to take place on/in the Onyx slipspace anamoly. That's the perfect setup for one, right there.... lost in this very massive and strange world with a few different characters to choose from, each with their own distinct traits.

I'd almost always be Kelly - because guys are no fun to play as on RPGs - plus she's fast, and slow = dead.

That, and I want to see the reunion of all of the Spartan IIs - would make for some awesome action/emotional sequences. That... and I just want to know what all of our misplaced Spartans inside of Onyx will find.....

*yawns* ... okay - I'm tired and rambling on.... I'll shut up and go to sleep.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by wildcat
If my memory is correct, I believe that Halo takes place somewhere around 2555.

No wonder the UNSC is loosing big time because its 2555 and their still using gunpowder. The United States in 2038 could kick their butts with all of these new weapon systems coming out. And the UNSC still cannot make a rail gun in a smaller size? Pathetic! From what I have heard about the F-14, the Warthog would be useless against its long range capabilites. And the Longsword fighter/bombers look very easy to see on radar. Russian SAMS could easilly take it out. And for Master Cheif, well a good old rocket launcher could take him out just like that. They should have lasers and energy weapons by now and they should have better medical technology too. Cyborgs in real life would probably already been made before 2100 and the Spartans arent exactly real cyborgs except for metal bones which seem like their strong but they still break.

Now for the Covenant, Banshees are too slow and their range isn't long enough to win against the F-22. Now that would be an unbalanced match. The Paladin of the USA could win against a wraith right now and even when the new homing shell comes out. The Wraiths don't have trackers and their range isn't long enough. Plus they are too slow and the T90 and M1A1 can out run it and dodge it's plasma blobs. And theres this one rocket artillery machine the US has but I dont know the name of it but it can easially take out a pack of Covenant soldiers. Now about the strategy of the Covenant, Adolf Hitler can out smart them. Ever read Halo Fall of Reach? Well there this one line that says the Covenent are less intellegant than humans. And if you think thats not true because of their technology? Well most of what they had came from the Forerunner.



Sorry, but your analysis is terribly flawed. Both the UNSC and Covenant are space fairing, meaning that they can move men and materials effectively out of our reach, and can easily bombard our fortified positions from space. We have... space shuttles. Oh snap.



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 06:29 AM
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Earth would be #ed. They can hit whatever they want from space.

On the ground, the UNSC marines are about on par with regular marines of today as far as training goes, but they've got better armor coverage, which apparently doesn't weigh them down much, and they've got, for as little sense as it makes, a 7.62x51mm assault rifle that holds 60 bullets that they can fire controllably fully automatic. They've also got fancy computer monocle doodads, and such. They probably outclass modern infantry.

Their warthog isn't really as useful of a vehicle as hummvw, since it only seats about three, and it's pretty bad in it's (common) SPAAG role, having only a .50cal minigun. I guess that'd chew up infantry pretty good, but it's a little exposed. The coilgun is pretty nifty, but it seems to just be a 20/30mm cannon equivalent.

Their quad thingy is a quad. Fun to drive I guess. Not all that impressive

Their tank is pretty bad. It's got titanium armor, a 90mm gun, and a very unimpressive top speed. It's four treads give it a bit of an advantage on weird terrain, but not enough to make up for being slow. It's got an awful profile, although most of the tank is low to the ground. It's only got a crew of just two, or one spartan II. It really doesn't seem like a match for a modern tank.

logically, it would seem like the pelican and longsword fighter outclass any modern aircraft in speed and service ceiling, since they can FLY INTO SPACE. they have to be able to make escape velocity, over 7 km/s. That gets easier once you get out of the atmosphere, but it's still pretty impressive. The longsword is supposed to mount 120mm autocannon or something ridiculous like that. It's pretty huge. I'd bet it could take down modern fighters no problem.

The convenant aren't smart, but they still outclass us even on the ground. Their brightly colored weird looking dudes soak up 7.62mmx51 rounds like they're nothing. the battle rifle is like 9x100mm and it still takes dozens of rounds to the chest to kill an elite. We have weapons that'll kill them real good, but not on your average infantryman.

Jackals would probably end up getting grenaded and hit by artillery a lot, because their crazy energy shields make shooting them difficult. Hunters are ridiculous tough, and would take a .50cal at least to take them down. (well, you can do it in halo 2, anyway)

Ghosts are weird vehicles, and could probably ruin someone's day. they're fast and probably hard to hit, even with something guided like the javelin. The driver is exposed, but they have energy shields. I'd think they'd be a real nuisance to deal with.

The Wraith isn't a good tank, and it isn't a good artillery piece or a spectacular assault gun either. They wouldn't do very well, IMO.

The banshee isn't even a fighter. Neither is that UNSC equivalent in halo 3. It's some kind of CAS aircraft or gunship type thing. Their actual fighters are even scarier than the UNSC ones. It's decent at what it does. Tough, too, since you pretty much have to shoot ATGM rockets at it to kill it.


The real reason they'd definitely kick our asses (barring orbital bombardment), of course, is they fact that they all have dropships, so they can bring whatever they want wherever they want. They far outclass our transport helicopters.



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