United States did NOT use White Phosphorous in Falluja

www.current.tv...

In the video, it shos the civilians who were allegedly burned by white phosphorous. They calim that because their clothes were not burned, it proves white phosphorous was used on civilians. The civilians were in fact, left in the sun and decomposed naturally.

As is common.... lies were told and deceptions used to prove a political agenda.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
As is common.... lies were told and deceptions used to prove a political agenda.

Of course, and you might be right on the phosporous, but does it matter when the war in its entireness is based on one big lie?

I actually think they did use it.

Kinda funny, then, that I've seen with my own eyes explosions that are indicitive of white phosphorous warheads on CNN.

Video Link

See those airbursts? That's not "for illumination".

I'll agree that the corpses used as proof are fairly thin, but video of WP falling on civilian villages are much harder to argue with.

Originally posted by Valhall
I actually think they did use it.

She's right. They admit it.

The US state department had earlier said white phosphorus had been used in Falluja very sparingly, for illumination purposes.

Col Venable said that statement was based on "poor information".

In fact, they used it quite a bit.

"However it is an incendiary weapon and may be used against enemy combatants."

And he said it had been used in Falluja, but it was a "conventional munition", not a chemical weapon.

It is not "outlawed or illegal", Col Venable said.

He said US forces could use white phosphorus rounds to flush enemy troops out of covered positions.

BBC - US used white phosphorus in Iraq
US troops used white phosphorus as a weapon in last year's offensive in the Iraqi city of Falluja, the US has said.

But it was okay because they were fighting 'insurgents' and 'terrorists' right?

When folks think of chemical weapons, usually phosphorus bombs are not considered. Its more likely chamical weapons are VX nerve gas, mustard gas, Cyanide etc. Those are chemical weapons. White Phosphorus weapons are elemental.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
When folks think of chemical weapons, usually phosphorus bombs are not considered. Its more likely chamical weapons are VX nerve gas, mustard gas, Cyanide etc. Those are chemical weapons. White Phosphorus weapons are elemental.

That has to be one of the worst attempts at jusification I've ever seen.

White Phosphorous causes horrible burns and can't be put out. If you get any of that vile crap on you, you are going to suffer like no humanbeing ever should. It's awful stuff to use in combat, and it's dispicable to deploy it in civilian areas.

Playing word games with semantics does not lessen the suffering that using these weapons has caused.

After the pictures I saw of Fallujah and the bodies there is NOT ONE SHREAD OF DOUBT IN MY MIND that the US military DIDNT use white phosphorus on civilians. There is video on YOUTUBE somewhere with a guy from the US army artillery saying YES THEY FIRED WP SHELLS OVER THE CITY and you can even SEE footage of planes going OVERHEAD AND DROPPING THE DARN STUFF AT NIGHT.
I do not have the footage on me however I figure it shouldnt be so hard to youtube it because that IS where it came from (film footage).

WP has been used all over this theatre, and I would bet in Afghanistan too. It is a standard tool for lighting targets.

It has been used often. There's no point in arguing about it.

Originally posted by BitRaiser

Originally posted by princeofpeace
When folks think of chemical weapons, usually phosphorus bombs are not considered. Its more likely chamical weapons are VX nerve gas, mustard gas, Cyanide etc. Those are chemical weapons. White Phosphorus weapons are elemental.

That has to be one of the worst attempts at jusification I've ever seen.

Right. That's the same disgusting argument that was used about a year ago when we discussed this. "WP isn't a chemical weapon." WTF-ever...tell that to the people scarred for life. (Watch the next argument to replace this unsupportable argument will be they were insurgents - the whole damned city was.) It's a disgusting argument to watch.

I'm very glad that some prominent members of the ATS community have come out to nail this digusting lie and its equally abhorrent justifications.

The OP should be ashamed IMO. Sorry if that's a flame... but at least it doesn't burn flesh down to the bone.

For what it's worth, Israel has also admitted using white phosphorus in attacks in Lebanon:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Phosphorus not a chemical, its an element. Therefore, not a chemical weapon.

See, how easy is that?

No one is denying it can be used and have terrible effects, but call it what it is and is not a chemical weapon!!!!!

Originally posted by Mdv2
Of course, and you might be right on the phosporous, but does it matter when the war in its entireness is based on one big lie?

It mattered when the antiwar reports were flowing like dambusters throughout the media...!
Hit the ATS search function and see how much discussion was had on this matter....of course it matters now, regardless of your claim of a war based upon "one big lie."



[edit on 26-10-2006 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by kegs
For what it's worth, Israel has also admitted using white phosphorus in attacks in Lebanon:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Create another topic thread maybe?
"For what it's worth," this topic is: United States did NOT use White Phosphorous in Falluja, not Israel has such and such....hello?

Interesting way to legitimize the situation.

The topic was "the us didn't use WP". That's BS. We all know this. Whether you think the fact that it's "elemental" changes its status, doesn't matter.

But by that logic, it would be okay for me to drop a few hundred pounds of plutonium of Al Sadr, correct? I mean it's only an element.

It's a chemical reaction that enables it to be used as a weapon.
Semantic game closed.

As for the real reason that WP isn't classified as a chemical weapon, it's because it's not the toxic properties that kills you. It's the fact that it burns you in horrible ways. Still, the definition of a "chemical weapon" is that it poisens you.

Of cource, any rational thinking human-being knows that is total BS.

Lol Seekerof.

Bit tetchy these days are we? Can't say I blame you.


It's pertinent because to many in the Middle East, the US and Israel have but one face.

Originally posted by BitRaiser

Originally posted by princeofpeace
White Phosphorus weapons are elemental.

That has to be one of the worst attempts at jusification I've ever seen.

Playing word games with semantics does not lessen the suffering that using these weapons has caused.

Then why aren't you crying rivers over napalm in Korea or incendiaries over Hamburg (let alone Tokyo, a city of wood and paper houses).

As for Dresden, I quote the within-easy-reach Wikipedia:

During these four raids (Feb 13-15, 1945) a total of around 3,900 tons of bombs were dropped.

The firebombing consisted, of the by-then standard methods,[18][19] of dropping large amounts of high-explosive to blow off the roofs to expose the timbers within buildings, followed by incendiary devices (fire-sticks) to ignite them and then more high-explosives to hamper the efforts of the fire services. The consequences of these standard methods were particularly effective in Dresden: the bombings eventually created a self-sustaining firestorm with temperatures peaking at over 1500 °C. After a wide area caught fire, the air above the bombed area became extremely hot and rose rapidly. Cold air then rushed in at ground level from outside, and people were sucked into the fire

...

The tonnage of bombs dropped on Dresden was actually lower than in many other areas.[35] However, ideal weather conditions at the target site, the wooden-framed buildings, and "breakthroughs" linking the cellars of contiguous buildings and the lack of preparation for the effects of air-raids by Gauleiter Martin Mutschmann,[36] conspired to make the attack particularly devastating.

Let's not even look at Hiroshima and Nagasaki...

As William T. Sherman is misquoted: War is Hell (Napoleon did say it).

There are rules to war, rules which bear the names of two European cities. Those rules are designed prevent the large majority of war crimes and, by and large, they do just that. To enforce those rules we have the ICC in the Hague, currently hearing the case against, amongst others, former Liberian President Joseph Taylor.

All war is hell, all deaths are to be regretted and all victims should not have suffered. But let's get with reality. Officers (as would I) will use the most effective legal means at their disposal to protect their men and defeat the enemy and WP is one of those.

WP is not a chemical weapon, it's use is not proscribed, it is ugly, it is horrific, but from what I've been told about the heat of battle by the men who've been there...there are no good wounds when you receive them. Whether you die from a bleeding amputated limb, a sucking chest wound or WP, you die in agony, scared out of your wits and feeling very, very alone.