Cheney confirms that detainees were subjected to water-boarding. W/Garphic Video!

I wonder if they used it against the suspects in Gitmo who turned out to be totally innocent?

Cheney is just a spoilt monster. He will come back in the next life as a dingleberry.

Originally posted by kokoro
No doubt Black_Fox, we dont have the official story on 9-11. However, unless you have some official documents or secret recordings of such plans hidden up your sleeve I dont see us ever getting the real story. Be damned sure that if what you are saying is true, any proof is long gone.

And about the "torture". While I do consider this waterboarding torture, I consider it mild in camparison to other methods. I would much rather them use this than electrocution or G-d forbid something worse. Torture is a touchy subject, while part of me says its wrong the other part says we have to use it in some instances. I do not think is should become a routine thing, it should only be used in situations when we KNOW that they have sensitive info that will save lives.

"However, unless you have some official documents or secret recordings of such plans hidden up your sleeve I dont see us ever getting the real story. Be damned sure that if what you are saying is true, any proof is long gone."

Ya but isnt that why people get water boarded?To get information from them because there is a lack of proof?So basically when they have no proof of a crime,they water board them into confessing a crime or until they confess to something they didnt do,just to stop the torture.

Originally posted by born_to_be_wired
...they "did" what exactly ?????

The operatives of al-qaida that carried out 911, plot further attacks against the US, and attack our soldiers abroad.

Originally posted by rizla
I wonder if they used it against the suspects in Gitmo who turned out to be totally innocent?

Who cares, its water boarding. These are techniques used against an enemy that kidnaps civilians off the streets and cuts their heads off with knives.

Black_Fox
To get information from them because there is a lack of proof?So basically when they have no proof of a crime,they water board them into confessing a crime

Why would they even bother with this? THey clearly have no problem holding and trying people based on what would normally be considered poor evidence. If they ahve someone, they are already convinced enough of their guilt. They're using water boarding to get operational details about al-qaida and the other terror organizations.

Originally posted by Nygdan
The operatives of al-qaida that carried out 911, plot further attacks against the US, and attack our soldiers abroad. etails about al-qaida and the other terror organizations.

Yeah keep saying it Nygdan and maybe one day it'll be true.

3000 people is a lot of people, but would any of those dead want America's image tarnished in this way? Would any of those dead at WTC want to see US "professionals" acting in such a cruel and inhuman way as this?

50,000 people die each year in car accidents and yet that's not enough for us to change our nation such that Americans are inconvenienced by slow traffic speed limits. Even after ten years and half a million dead, the speed limits remain what they are. but here, in the case of your leader's and their power-grab, we want to milk every WTC body for maximum effect so we can change America into the tough, no-nonsense nation it should be, right? This is a basic premise of national socialism i.e. the cult of death. Every dead body "for the cause" should strengthen the fight.

But hey, those 3000 deaths are all you and your president have to go on, so keeeeep on milking it. Remember, if you start to be human for even a second, you might lose your will to torture, and if that happens, and you are no longer able to hate the terrorists, and well, America itself may be lost. So please, keep up the illusion and keep hardening your heart!

Anyone who supports this version of America deserves the full effect when it shows up at their own front door and accuses them of being disloyal. I laugh when I think of supporters of waterboarding being boarded for some silly reason in the future. It will happen long after Al Qaida has morphed into some new enemy also constructed by us.

Gimme a break, we have these guys cutting off heads and blowing # up and you're going to cry that the CIA is throwing water on them?

Please get a clue.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by d1k]

There seems to be no level too low for the Bush clan to sink too. These guys make Attila seem like an amateur. It's become almost impossible to think of these "men" as human. They are walking, breathing abominations.

Originally posted by d1k
Gimme a break, we have these guys cutting off heads and blowing # up and you're going to cry that the CIA is throwing water on them?

Please get a clue.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by d1k]

GIve me a break.
Americans dont torture.
Some people that pose as Americans may torture, or may advocate torture, but they are not American at heart.
America is the land of the Free....we champion freedom and human rights, not torture and despotism..
America is the land of the Brave... we dont need to advocate torture to protect us from some unseen, shadowy enemy.
If you feel so strongly about torture perhaps you should petition your own government to institute it.
And its not just 'thowing some water on them'. If you think its that easy I suggest you have a waterboarding party at your house and invite your friends. Take turns waterboarding each other and tell me how fun it is.
Better yet, waterboard your children the next time they lie to you, and see how long it takes the state to declare you an unfit parent, confiscate your kids and throw you in jail, where hopefully it wont take long to waterboard you into confessing how much of a criminal you are.

Only one drop at a time, but its still called CHINESE WATER TORTURE.
They dont call it CHINESE WATER fun time splashy splashy.

Besides, the 'ticking time bomb' scenario, which is how they introduced us to the idea of sanctioned torture, is a farce.
There is no ticking time bomb. There is no bit of information that can be extracted from some chap living in a cave that is ever going to stop or ever has stopped anything.
Spanish Inquisition anyone? Torture the devil right out of you!

Originally posted by 11Bravo
GIve me a break.
Americans dont torture.
Some people that pose as Americans may torture, or may advocate torture, but they are not American at heart.

Time to wake up.

What do you suggest you do to these sicko's to get intel out of them? Carebear stare? All is fair in love and war, the other side knows this and thankfully so do the men and women leading the world.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by d1k]

A little bit of harmless water cohesion on these Islamofascist murderers is more than worth it to save Innocent lives, imho.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Islamofascist

I think I will coin a new term today.....NeoConOfascist...yes, I like my new term!
Waterboard the NeoConOfascists! Thats my new bumpersticker!
I cant blame the younger generation, they were raised on a steady diet of violence ala television, but the 'old schoolers' should be as repulsed by torture as pedophilia.
Im still waiting for one case ever, in all of history, when torture revealed ANY plot to hurt ANYONE. PERIOD.
Torture was used to make witches admit thier devilish deeds.....how many of those were really witches?
Torture was used to 'convert' American Indians.....how many of them were savage animals?
Torture is sick and perverted and never ever has produced ANY reliable information.
Never.
Not once.
On the other hand countless numbers of innocent people have been literally tortured to death......
Why cant you understand that?
You cant give me one instance where torture helped anybody.....never saved one life, never discovered any witches, never converted any indians, never stopped one assasination, never disclosed any nefarious plot, not one instance of disclosing the location of a ticking bomb. Torture has never, and will never, be of any benefit to any civilized people.

And why cant you understand that these growing Armies of Islamofascists whom strap Dynamite to there bodies and chant " Death To America " cant be reasoned with and simply wont hand over life saving Intel through usual forms of communication ??

Before you come back with what Armies,your just a scare monga blah blah ..... Watch this wee video ...... A sea of Islamofascists chanting Death to America, and despite your opposing this soft Water Choesion im sure this chanting mass of enemies of the West wont differentiate between you, me or America.

Death To America

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Torture has never, and will never, be of any benefit to any civilized people.

But these are not civilized people. They don't even rank as high as domesticated animals. Bush and his gang are sadistic, perverted, homicidal maniacs....lower than pigs!

So some people hate the west? Are you suggesting we torture every single muslim? Torture half of them to find out if the other half is plotting something?
Torture 1 in 5? 1 in 10? 1 in 100?
Torture the ones that look mean? or chant the loudest?
Blah, Like I said earlier, land of the free HOME OF THE BRAVE, dont torture ANYONE as an excuse to keep me safe. I can handle my own security. I dont fear any bearded man, chanting any hateful thing, in any foreign land. IM not afraid. They are FREE to chant whatever they want. They dont scare me in the slightest.
I am scared however of ANY government that condones or advocates torture.

Tell me what exactly it is you think you are going to discover by torture?
Even if you believe the fairy tale the government tells you about 911, even if it is all true, by their own admission the 'hijackers' most likely didnt know each other, and each 'cell' was an individual group with no connection to the others and no idea of other plots. So capturing any one member would not disclose the entire operation. This is what the government says, not me. Then out of the other side of their mouth they say 'we need to extract information from these people'.
Its classic double think, and alot of people cant wrap their heads around it.
Just like 'The terrorist hate us for our freedoms'
while at the same time 'we are listening to your phone calls, tracking your internet searches, taking your baby formula before you board the flight, setting up national ID cards, torturing people, creating 'free speach zones' and 'no fly lists' to keep you safe'

So you see, the terrorists hate your freedoms so we (the government) will take away some of your freedoms to defeat the terrorists!
What? Did that make sense?






Im still waiting for one of you torture proponants to give me one example in history when the ends justified the means in torture. And NO, I will not accept anything Dick Cheney says as proof torture worked.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Yeah keep saying it Nygdan and maybe one day it'll be true.

So basically you are saying htat there is no such thing as al-qaida, that, despite all the hatred torwards america out there, no one is actually doing anything to hurt or attack america.

3000 people is a lot of people, but would any of those dead want America's image tarnished in this way?

Forget about the US's image, the world hates the US because its the most powerful and successful country in the world, Bush didn't make people hate america, they already hated america. ANd if waterboarding people would've prevented 911, then, YEAH, I think everyone that died in it would've prefered that there was some water boarding going on.

50,000 people die each year in car accidents

And if water-boarding terrorists for information could stop car accidents, I'd be a lunatic to suggest that we not do it.

but here, in the case of your leader's and their power-grab, we want to milk every WTC body for maximum effect

You're the one supposing that the victims of 911 wouldn't want us to waterboard the peopel that were involved in the attack.

you might lose your will to torture,

I'' listen to the complaints when we start ripping people's fingers out with pliers, or putting car batteries to people's testicles, not when we're dunking them underwater to scare them.

So please, keep up the illusion and keep hardening your heart!

That 'illusion' would be that there are radicals out there that hate american's policies and are willing ot kill civilians over it, right?

Anyone who supports this version of America deserves the full effect when it shows up at their own front door and accuses them of being disloyal.

We're not the ones that will find ourselves with our backs to blood-smeared firing squad walls when the proverbial poo hits the fan. ;U

I laugh when I think of supporters of waterboarding being boarded for some silly reason in the future.

And I laugh at anyone that wouldn't waterboard someone who's invovled in a terror plot in order to stop them.

It will happen long after Al Qaida has morphed into some new enemy also constructed by us.

Thats right, because, people dislike america, but no one would ever do anything to actually carry out an attack on americans, there's not threat, everyone go back to sleep.

skyway
These guys make Attila seem like an amateur

Man, you've really got to learn when and how to use 'hyperbole for effect', because that was just absurd. Water boarding is as bad as the Huns, Whats next, waterboarding is as bad as being a nazi

11bravo
I think I will coin a new term today.....NeoConOfascist...yes, I like my new term!

psstt....people have been using that for years.

What exactly is wrong with 'islamofascist'? Its perfectly accurate, the radical extremists within islam want to re-establish the Caliphate, its perfectuly accurate to describe this as islamofascist, and its a heckuva lot better than simply saying that its 'islam'. People using 'islamofascists' are simply using a perfectly sensible term to describe the extremist radicals within islam, they are taking care to not smear all muslims, what the heck is wrong with the term?

So some people hate the west? Are you suggesting we torture every single muslim?

At the very least we should be attacking and trying to defeat the ones that hate the west AND are trying to carry out attacks on westerners.
Thats going to invovle people being 'hurt', whether its by having bullets pumped into them or by being waterboarded.

NumberCruncherTorture is sick and perverted and never ever has produced ANY reliable information. Never. Not once.

Thats absolutely false. People, after being tortured, will tell you whatever you want them to tell you. That means, if they have information, they will give it up, if they don't, they'll try to figure out what to tell you that you want to hear. Torture is used as an interrogation technique because it works, period.
Having said that, we shouldn't be torturing people, but waterboarding simply isn't torture.

[edit on 30-10-2006 by Nygdan]

(PrisonPlanet)-WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning.

If we're talking about people like Khalid Sheik Muhammad

But you are saying that any torture can be used, and that water boarding is bascially, more or less, the same as most other conceptions of 'torture' right?

"waterboarding simply isn't torture"
Can you do it to your kids if they lie to you?
Can you do it to your kids if they lie to you and not get arrested and jailed for child abuse?
Can you do it to your neighbor if he lies to you?
Can the cops do it to your neighbor if he lies to them?

What about chinese water torture?
Thats only one drop at a time, but somehow, amazingly, it IS known as torture.

I invite you to have a waterboarding party with all your friends, take turns waterboarding each other and then discuss the various aspects of how un-torture like it is. Get back to me on how that goes.


You are right New York Giants Dan, we shouldnt be torturing people.
But until you have been waterboarded I will contend that it IS torture.
Waterboard yourself, or your wife, or your kids, tell me how it was and then I MIGHT believe you that its not torture.
Since its not torture I anxiously await the results of your family waterboarding exercise.
I on the other hand would never even consider doing this to anybody, regardless of how
scared I was that they might be plotting against me.
I dont live in fear. Neither should you.
It must suck to think that half the world is out to get you and the only way to stop them is to 'waterboard' anyone and everyone that could possibly know something about anyting.

Still waiting on one case where information was extracted through torture that saved even one person, let alone thwarted some massive plot and saved hundreds.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
"waterboarding simply isn't torture"
Can you do it to your kids if they lie to you?

You also can't send you kids to prison if they lie to you.

Geting your testicles ripped off with a pair of pliers is torture, getting dunked into water and thinking you are going to drown????? Call it what you want, but its acceptable.

You are right New York Giants Dan,

:lol"
I wonder at times if people think thats what my name means. Pretty neat.

But until you have been waterboarded I will contend that it IS torture

The video linked to here IS of a reporter water boarding himself. He thought it was harmless enough to have it done to him to make a political add. I don't see anyone doing the same for having their skin flayed, car batteries hooked up to their testicles, fingernails ripped out, or be repeatedly stabbed, etc. And once its over, he nicely chats with everyone.
So again, torture, or no, well whatever it is, its permissible.

Originally posted by Nygdan
So again, torture, or no, well whatever it is, its permissible.

Gassing Jews was also permissible to the nazis. Permissibility doesn't make it right nor acceptable. Besides many things are permissible to madmen that the sane would never allow.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Yeah keep saying it Nygdan and maybe one day it'll be true.

So basically you are saying htat there is no such thing as al-qaida, that, despite all the hatred torwards america out there, no one is actually doing anything to hurt or attack america.

3000 people is a lot of people, but would any of those dead want America's image tarnished in this way?

Forget about the US's image, the world hates the US because its the most powerful and successful country in the world, Bush didn't make people hate america, they already hated america. ANd if waterboarding people would've prevented 911, then, YEAH, I think everyone that died in it would've prefered that there was some water boarding going on.

50,000 people die each year in car accidents

And if water-boarding terrorists for information could stop car accidents, I'd be a lunatic to suggest that we not do it.

but here, in the case of your leader's and their power-grab, we want to milk every WTC body for maximum effect

You're the one supposing that the victims of 911 wouldn't want us to waterboard the peopel that were involved in the attack.

you might lose your will to torture,

I'' listen to the complaints when we start ripping people's fingers out with pliers, or putting car batteries to people's testicles, not when we're dunking them underwater to scare them.

So please, keep up the illusion and keep hardening your heart!

That 'illusion' would be that there are radicals out there that hate american's policies and are willing ot kill civilians over it, right?

Anyone who supports this version of America deserves the full effect when it shows up at their own front door and accuses them of being disloyal.

We're not the ones that will find ourselves with our backs to blood-smeared firing squad walls when the proverbial poo hits the fan. ;U

I laugh when I think of supporters of waterboarding being boarded for some silly reason in the future.

And I laugh at anyone that wouldn't waterboard someone who's invovled in a terror plot in order to stop them.

It will happen long after Al Qaida has morphed into some new enemy also constructed by us.

Thats right, because, people dislike america, but no one would ever do anything to actually carry out an attack on americans, there's not threat, everyone go back to sleep.

skyway
These guys make Attila seem like an amateur

Man, you've really got to learn when and how to use 'hyperbole for effect', because that was just absurd. Water boarding is as bad as the Huns,

Whats next, waterboarding is as bad as being a nazi

11bravo
I think I will coin a new term today.....NeoConOfascist...yes, I like my new term!

psstt....people have been using that for years.

What exactly is wrong with 'islamofascist'? Its perfectly accurate, the radical extremists within islam want to re-establish the Caliphate, its perfectuly accurate to describe this as islamofascist, and its a heckuva lot better than simply saying that its 'islam'. People using 'islamofascists' are simply using a perfectly sensible term to describe the extremist radicals within islam, they are taking care to not smear all muslims, what the heck is wrong with the term?

So some people hate the west? Are you suggesting we torture every single muslim?

At the very least we should be attacking and trying to defeat the ones that hate the west AND are trying to carry out attacks on westerners.
Thats going to invovle people being 'hurt', whether its by having bullets pumped into them or by being waterboarded.

NumberCruncherTorture is sick and perverted and never ever has produced ANY reliable information. Never. Not once.

Thats absolutely false. People, after being tortured, will tell you whatever you want them to tell you. That means, if they have information, they will give it up, if they don't, they'll try to figure out what to tell you that you want to hear. Torture is used as an interrogation technique because it works, period.
Having said that, we shouldn't be torturing people, but waterboarding simply isn't torture.

[edit on 30-10-2006 by Nygdan]

"Forget about the US's image, the world hates the US because its the most powerful and successful country in the world, Bush didn't make people hate america, they already hated america. ANd if waterboarding people would've prevented 911, then, YEAH, I think everyone that died in it would've prefered that there was some water boarding going on."

"IF" waterboarding would have prevented 9/11? Hw about if The government heeded all the warnings about it ahead of time.How bout Codelisa Rice doing something about the report "Osama determined to strike within the U.S".How bout instead of firing CIA/FBI agents for wanting to question those involved in the 9/11 "attacks" before they occured,they lt them do there jobs.There were plenty of people within this country who knew about 9/11 before hand.Look at all the insider trading that occured during those days.Look at the early wrnings telling people not to fly on 9/11.Or look at the fact that the supposed 9/11 terroists have never been confirmed.Look at the fact Osama is even wanted for 9/11 on the FBI's own website.If your saying waterboarding could have prevented 9/11,then i say waterboard this administration and see what the "truth"really is.If waterboarding is used to get info from "potential terroists and threats"to get info,then why hasnt the administartion been meet with that same form of information gathering?Truth is,if there is not 100% proof,Osama and people in caves w/boxcuters were behind 9/11 without a doubt,and no help from this government,we shouldnt believe this governments "official"story till we have proof.And if theres doubt about what happened that day,then we should also highly doubt the idea of waterboarding people.Waterboarding is torture,period.Its wrong and its what seperated this country from those we fought.That thin line that seperates us from the enemy is evaporating.And if you look at the NSA wire tapping,Hapious Corpses being watered down,who have to begin to wonder if the American people are now the enemy of this administration.