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Russia's new submarine launched ballastic missile fails.

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ape

posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 12:46 AM
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nice touch




gn




posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by semperfoo

Originally posted by vK_man




american jobs from overseas, as well as other nations who want a piece of the fairtax. They will save huge somes of moneym, mean while providing americans with JOB'S-A-Plenty!!!.



The dollar wont collapse. I think its popular for you third worlders speculate it will. But we americans will leave the pure speculation up to you ppl
Our GDP is currently growing faster then our debt is. The debt is one of the main reasons why the USD has taken a hit. It will rebound. If the dollar were to callapse so would the interdependant world economy.

Another reason why the america will switch to the fairtax is the simplicity of the FairTax which frees Americans from our current overwhelming tax code and unshackles the U.S. economy. It will solve americas medicare and social security crisis.





The dollar wont collapse. I think its popular for you third worlders speculate it will.

fool , i didn't speculate it will collapse .i said its value will decline


Our GDP is currently growing faster then our debt is

in what terms are you talking current purchase rate or constant purchase rate



CAPITALISM! Thats the ticket
Dont forget that, THAT is the SOLE reason why you indians are currently employed by outsourced american jobs. Corporations look at you ppl like nothing more then a cheap prostitute.


yeah ,now those jobs are getting outsourced to poorer nations where salary is 1/5 of india and 1/50 of USA
i stated this to ape....bah



Meaning all american jobs that have been outsourced will be sucked right back into america so corporations can save huge somes of money. Did you bother to read any of my sources

overoptimistic .... other countries like china will be motivated in bringing down taxes and improve productivity further ..... which will nullify the so called 'good' effects...and


Part of the problem is the way Boortz and Linder are using the idea of embedded taxes. In an eight-year-old study paid for by AFFT, Harvard economist Dale Jorgenson noted that because the taxes paid by everyone in the chain of production are embedded in the cost of goods, prices could decline an average of 20 percent if all those taxes were scrapped. The FairTax Book devotes an entire chapter to this idea
What The FairTax Book fails to mention is that prices can only fall this sharply if companies cut wages. I asked Jorgenson about this, and he agreed. Say your salary is $100,000 a year today, but you take home $80,000 after taxes.
money.cnn.com...




Another reason why the america will switch to the fairtax is the simplicity of the FairTax which frees Americans from our current overwhelming tax code and unshackles the U.S. economy. It will solve americas medicare and social security crisis.

and create a new problem...




The "underground economy" that income tax advocates complain about will certainly increase under the FairTax system. Even if the highly dubious claim that there will be an "average producer price reduction of 22 percent for goods and services in just the first year after the adoption of the FairTax" is true,not having to pay a 23 percent tax on an item is a tremendous incentive to make a purchase in the "underground economy."
www.mises.org...


yes , go a. ,implement it and if it fails with this hype .. you americans will the laughing stock of the world



[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]


[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]


[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by ape

posted by vk_man






[edit on 3-1-2007 by ape]




because all of those american jobs are coming back.

those jobs are now being outsourced to poorer nations where salary is 1/50 of USA and 1/5 of india ...stop beating around with the rhetoric ...



you will either have to get a visa or just join the indian military

i don't need to , globalization has generated a great deal of employment and manmohan govt further plans to lower tax as per standards of WTO
which will bring more companies and yes fixed capital like land is being given at throwaway prices to companies so that companies set up shop in india rather than china , after all china is the greatest competitor of all



I laugh at how you would just post anything to try and refute something that cannot be refuted, HAHAHAHA.

actually thats the worst case scenario and i said IT COULD BECOME A DISASTER I DID NOT REFUTE AND YOU HAVE NOT EXPLAINED ME HOW THE POSSIBLE NEGATIVE IMPLICATIONS WILL BE SOLVED?


However, critics argue that it could be difficult to collect, having challenges with an underground economy (avoiding the tax),[4][3] and that it may not yield enough money for the government, resulting in cuts to governmental programs, increased deficit, or a higher tax rate.[3] Additionally, it may be difficult to permanently eliminate income taxation, as it would require a constitutional amendment to aggressively repeal the Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
en.wikipedia.org...





[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]


ape

posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 09:53 AM
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you keep mentioning underground economy which would actually be taxed and right now it currently is not being taxed, once again your comments prove you are not reading any of the material we have provided or even researched the fairtax subject so what makes you think you can engage in debate ???? there will always be some form of an underground economy thats an element that hard to be rid of, but if u can tax it wouldnt that make it a little bit more tolerable? take a good look at the current Us tax system if you can comprehend it, people work around it all the time and its mainly the rich.

you posted the information from JPFO which was debunked 2 years ago, then you quote something from wikipedia that says undergrounde economy, well that economy would get taxed, so would alot of other elements you're not taking into consideration.

you ignored about 86% of my posts and the information provided so im going to end this one with a ' I hope you learned something today'.



[edit on 3-1-2007 by ape]



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by ape
you keep mentioning underground economy which would actually be taxed and right now it currently is not being taxed, once again your comments prove you are not reading any of the material we have provided or even researched the fairtax subject so what makes you think you can engage in debate ???? there will always be some form of an underground economy thats an element that hard to be rid of, but if u can tax it wouldnt that make it a little bit more tolerable? take a good look at the current Us tax system if you can comprehend it, people work around it all the time and its mainly the rich.

you posted the information from JPFO which was debunked 2 years ago, then you quote something from wikipedia that says undergrounde economy, well that economy would get taxed, so would alot of other elements you're not taking into consideration.

you ignored about 86% of my posts and the information provided so im going to end this one with a ' I hope you learned something today'.



[edit on 3-1-2007 by ape]







you keep mentioning underground economy which would actually be taxed and right now it currently is not being taxed, once again your comments prove you are not reading any of the material we have provided or even researched the fairtax subject so what makes you think you can engage in debate ????

,I AM TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBLE IMPLICATIONS FOR THE FUTURE YOU FOOL , FAIRTAX is NOT IMPLEMENTED MAN ...
AND YOUR SOURCES KEEP BEating around the rhetoric that fairtax is great , does not explain me the posible implications
YEAH, ACC TO THE CRITICS IT(underground economy) WOULD GREATLY INCREASE , CAN'T YOU READ............



there will always be some form of an underground economy thats an element that hard to be rid of, but if u can tax it wouldnt that make it a little bit more tolerable?

YEAH, ACC TO THE CRITICS IT WOULD GREATLY INCREASE , CAN'T YOU READ............



you ignored about 86% of my posts

I IGNORED THE POSTS WHICH SHOW THE USA IS INVINCIBLE MYTH MENTALITY

[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 3-1-2007 by vK_man]



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 01:28 PM
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You yourself know this blindful biased opinion to be truth? Meaning you have researched it yourself and know for a fact that what your posting is to be taken as 100% fact and nothing less? Or are you just trying to believe in anything that belittles the fairtax at which you then blow it way out of proportion to make your agenda more clear? You know damn well what the fairtax will do, and you cant stand it. You know that it would make America more powerful while sucking jobs out of your over populated country! Possibly collapsing your country. Im just going to tell you right now that, that is Not my problem.


The fairtax has been heavily researched for the past 8-10 years. We have had some of the britghest minds in economics who have agreed that the fairtax is best for america.

Your point is moot. Your not looking at any of the info we provided in regards to the fairtax. Your only looking at the negative aspects (which are weak) and there for you are talking out of your ass.


When it comes to the fairtax the pros outweigh the cons. I suggest you look into the fairtax a little deeper instead of looking into blinded biased opinions. and taking them as fact!

Just keep looking up the negative aspects, if anything more then to just help you sleep good at night. Because it surely wont save your countrys drop in employment rate once the fairtax is enabled! Your best bet is getting an American visa and coming to work in America.

Heres a start. I suggest you educate yourself with it
fairtax.net...

Unless you happen to think that 75 of the worlds economist who have studied and researched the fairtax for the past 10 years are wrong?!






[edit on 023131p://4101pm by semperfoo]


ape

posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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good link semper, this especially stood out




Side Note: It is possible that a person on any of the many federal aid programs (sometimes referred to as welfare) does not worry much about the cost of government, since they pay little or no federal taxes. But under the FairTax they would “pay” federal taxes as the FairTax will be added on to everything they buy. They will have been reimbursed in advance for this tax (through the pre-bate) but it will still feel to them like they are paying federal taxes because they will see it on their receipts and it will come out of their pockets, just like everyone else.




This will bring about new viewpoint for this person. He will now feel like a taxpayer. This is an interesting, but little discussed, benefit of the FairTax. Federal taxes being paid by everyone will bring awareness to everyone of the cost of government. The attitude, “I don’t care about taxes, because I don’t pay any!” will transition to “Hey! What are they spending all of my money on?” The FairTax will get everyone, even former non-taxpayers, VERY interested in what the government is doing with our money. We will have a much better system when ALL Americans are aware of the cost of government.



you know it's funny the foreigners on this site think everyone in america works and pays taxes and the people who dont are the bums they see in american movies and documentaries, they have zero clue how many people rely on the government and eat up my tax dollars and dont have to worry about a thing. now the people who actually need the help to get back up on their feet im all for but so many people abuse this system in the US it makes me want to puke just typing it. what kind of welfare social aid programs does india have? from what I can recall those people are the ones you see living tin huts drinking sewer water while people are going to the big corporation buildings right across the street to direct american business calls, haha yet this guy is here typing this madness.

when people spew garbage saying fair tax is for the rich and the poor will be burdened they are referencing the people who rely on the government who would now be paying taxes when they consume, this sysem is awesome.


the fairtax responses are for the bias people in this thread who say my country is going to collapse and will have no place in the future, not if my vote counts.

[edit on 3-1-2007 by ape]

[edit on 3-1-2007 by ape]



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by semperfoo





.




Just keep looking up the negative aspects, if anything more then to just help you sleep good at night.

Heres a start. I suggest you educate yourself with it
fairtax.net...







[edit on 023131p://4101pm by semperfoo]





America more powerful while sucking jobs out of your over populated country! Possibly collapsing your country

semperfoo stop the rhetoric you are making me laugh .. as for collapsing no , in fact india is expected to become a superpower by 2030




You know damn well what the fairtax will do, and you cant stand it.

it will create new jobs in usa ,boy , not bring back , the labour costs in India are very less and such that you can't imagine and companies don't pay provident fund,social security for the workers here .... and with special economic zones coming up the taxes will be nil for those companies operating in those zones ... now yes a cost benefit analysis
cost of labour in usa(annual wage system) =18000 to 24000 $
cost of labour in india(annual) = 360 to 720$

as you know labour costs is the most significant factor in the process of transport,production ,extraction etc.... the labour cost at each step add to the value of goods whether raw materials or finished ..

so even with fairtax , the labour costs in USA will have to brought down to something like 3600 $ to make it competitive



What The FairTax Book fails to mention is that prices can only fall this sharply if companies cut wages. I asked Jorgenson about this, and he agreed. Say your salary is $100,000 a year today, but you take home $80,000 after taxes.
money.cnn.com...



by prices in above mentioned para it means price of production of goods



When it comes to the fairtax the pros outweigh the cons.


in terms of western and latin competition yes ,but in terms of asian competition no , particularly because of labour costs and upcoming SEZ's , if you want to suck out the jobs from india and china , the labour wage will have to be brought down DRASTICALLY to 2400$ minimum (without tax)....





I suggest you look into the fairtax a little deeper instead of looking into blinded biased opinions. and taking them as fact!

i do not take everything as 100% fact.. there is nothing such as 100% absolute fact... but everything is partly true , partly false..





Your point is moot. Your not looking at any of the info we provided in regards to the fairtax. Your only looking at the negative aspects (which are weak)

they are weak for western systems which overtax but not chinese and indian for us these are even better loopholes to exploit, in fact ,fairtax will motivate the chinese and indian govt to give more incentives to companies .. i m happy that fairtax will be imposed because indirectly it will increase efficiency of workers here and hence create even more jobs in china and india..




Your best bet is getting an American visa and coming to work in America.

no need of that ,globalization has created millions of jobs in india and has benefitted the indian economy a lot , and indirect taxes are going to be lowered by congress govt as per WTO standards ....


fairtax is best for america.

off course , good for america and even better for us indians and chinese
if it helps usa it will make us more competitive , if it fails then more jobs of usa will come to us


Because it surely wont save your countrys drop in employment rate once the fairtax is enabled!

but in fact , thankfully fairtax will motivate us to be more competitive which is the essence of free market and generate even more jobs than ever!!!!!!!








[edit on 4-1-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 4-1-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 4-1-2007 by vK_man]



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by vK_man
only civilain communications... its military communications that are necessary to destroy and SS-18 launch would alert american nuclear forces...


The American military communications are not hardened to anywhere near the extent Russia's is and unlikely ( according to the senate reports i have seen at least) to survive in the state that would be required to fight a long term nuclear campaign.


for that purpose marabu is needed..


There really is no need for stealth generators or stealth planes.


well ,according to Krutov , russia has lost a good amount capability that it had ...
that can be reconstructed only with sovietia


Krutov is not a specialist and going by what he has to say i think he has no background in military or intelligence matters. Please show otherwise as i do not see why i should choose his word over well established source material



you could talk to him
www.communist.ru


If that is the only place i could talk to him i would rather not as hanging out in such a place is not helping him seem any more credible than his ignorance on military matters has so suggest him to be.


In recent years, support of Stalin has resurged.


Please! Where do you come up with this stuff? They want a strong leader; not the return to Stalinism!


Millions of Russians, exasperated with the downfall of the economy and political instability after the breakup of the Soviet Union, want Stalin back.


Very few of them were alive at the time Stalin ruled so they can not know to want him back unless their are being propagandized in such a manner. I don't see that that is what the current Russian education or media services are doing...


A recent controversial poll revealed that over thirty-five percent of Russians would vote for Stalin if he were still alive.[23] This is seen by some as a return of Stalin's cult.

en.wikipedia.org...


As i said Stalin died in 1953 and that would make require 35% of the current Russian population to be age 55-60 to even begin to form a understanding of what the USSR were like under him. If those 55-60 age group ask for another Stalin they must be suffering from some kind of form of amnesia as things have only gotten better since those days. I don't think you should believe in every pole result you see. If the younger people are asking for a Stalin they don't know what their asking for and i suggest some education to cure them of their ignorance.


there have been other russian surveys , this was a western one...


And those are far more reliable, yes.
Any report that suggest most Russians want a Stalin type person back or pretends that such people know what their asking is not imo related to reality.



We have calculated all our moves far in advance. If we take power in Russia, only a miracle will be able to stop us. And we will take power, I promise. According to sociological polls, most of the Russian people (53-72% depending on the social group) support Stalin and Stalinism

www.worldthreats.com...


This guy is certifiable not very sane imo.


and 100000 conventional tomahawk cruise missiles


According to official sources it's less than 10 000. Feel free to provide your source material .


ven podvig argues that , but he also says that some part is true , particularly on the warning system


No he does not and i am surprised you say such easily disproved things.

Well please go look at his response again as he makes it clear that the early warning system are perfectly capable of noticing the type of strike that could pose a strategic threat to Russia. He makes no mention of the large scale ABM deployments either so he clearly understands his 'mission' on the Internet.


Originally posted by vK_man
stellar , krutov is talking about rearmament beginning in 2007...not a few cruise missiles...


Why is he trying to predict the future when he does not know what happened before or what is happening now? I have not seen him say much that is related to open source material and without sources i don't see why you have chosen to just believe him....


pasted over by accident but according to you a majority of Russians support 'stalinism'


I just can't take such claims very seriously without knowing just how twisted the questions were that could have lead to a study concluding something like that.



This observation leads to a convincing explanation for recent trends in Russian politics: having lost its sense of national identity after 1991, Russia is struggling to create a new one based on a blend of tsarism, communism, and Stalinism (3/14).
www.foreignaffairs.org...


Trust American think-( not)tanks to know what sort of social movements are forming in Russia... I still don't see how it's Stalinism if it's a blend....


what you state is official ....


It was stealthy in that there was no way to target such weapons with counter fire; they could be trusted to keep firing as long as you could provide them with reloads. I am not sure how they were supposed to be able to make these missiles 'stealthy' and unless i see something more specific i will just assume that Krutov chose to assume that their survivability ( as suggested in defense journals) had something to do with them having 'stealth' generators of some sort; it seems like the sort of leap this guy could make...


AYAKS was designed for this purpose , it would travel through the mesosphere , avoiding the thermosphere and generates a plasma field that would absorb radar beams ....


I'm open minded and i will listen as long as you don't expert me to believe this based on what Krutov says...


its russia that keeps running around the USA for treaties


Please do some research as to who runs to who always benefits most by these treaties. Then please investigate how the USSR and Russia always breaks whatever parts of the treaties they want with the CIA and others hiding this from civilian oversight or simply having American politicians choose to ignore it.. It is easily proved that it is Russia who have always gained by signing 'disarmament' treaties.


as for NATO ,it no longer fears russia ... and that is coloured revolutions have took place and small nations like Poland ,georgia are joining NATO ..
and Poland is going to have a ABM base....


The revolutions matters relative little as the US is massively overextending itself while getting very little strategic benefit for the tremendous cost and negative sentiments it creates by these actions. If a war does eventually break out the world's sympathy might very well be with Russia.....



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 12:26 PM
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This is how Lt.-Gen. Oleg Gromov, the deputy commander of the Space Forces for acquisitions, described Russian early-warning satellites. Speaking at a round table at the Federation Council on 11 November 2005, Gromov complained the Space Forces do not have the resources to bring the early-warning constellation to the “minimum necessary” level and [even if they had,] all that they have is the “hopelessly outdated” 71Kh6 and 73D6 spacecraft.
russianforces.org...
as krutov said OUTDATED... in 2001


Actually if you look at the physical structure required for constant surveillance of the American land based ICBMs Russia have never had a gap in coverage for more than a few days since 1990. It may be 'outdated' but it's there and unless he is claiming that it's not working he is just saying what so many in the west would like to believe. Is is not his job to plead for more equipment when his in 'acquisitions' any ways? Just interesting that i must disregard a 70 odd page document i recently read on the Russian EW satellite constellations in the cold war so i may believe what he now claims. The Sat's Russia have had in orbit ( declared launches) are enough to guarantee spotting a land base assault from the US ICBM bases and remember that while their EW capacity is a classified matter it's also well known that they have dozens of military satellites in orbit anyways. I just find the whole argument of Russian strategic inferiority quite groundless if one goes beyond the political declarations that have always been staged for the western press...


Let's talk about the early warning systems. My understanding is that as the Soviet Union broke up, that the radars in its forward states were dismantled. How has the early warning system been affected by the loss of these radar stations in the outlying states of the former Soviet Union?

There were eight [ground-based] early warning stations in the Soviet Union, in Russia. And there was also a space-based system. Out of the eight stations, five were left outside of Russia. However, the only one, not some, but only one, radar station was destroyed. The only one that's not working now is the one in Latvia, in Skundia. As a result, a sector formed where, if we had not taken any additional measures, we would not have been able to observe the launches with a second echelon of systems; only with the first one. However, we took the following measures. We compensated partially for this empty, so to speak, sector, by other stations. That's the first thing. The second thing is that an attack from the West is probably least conceivable given the current situation. So we don't foresee any problems here.

When were these measures taken to fix the radar problem in Latvia? What year?

By September 1st, of the last year, the station in Skundia stopped working. And at the same time exactly, partial measures were taken to compensate for the loss of that sector. All the other stations are fully operational, such as the one in Ukraine, in Azerbaijan. We are planning to put into operation a station in Belarus, in Beronovich.

www.newshour.org...



The two nations have explored waysof addressing the problem at least since last year, when another CBO study suggested giving Russia access to the U.S. early warning satellite system. Faced with considerable political pressure not to release such sensitive information to the Russians, Daschle asked the budget office to consider "nontraditional" alternatives.

Since then, according to the letter, the CBO has learned that Russia has built seven new early warning satellites, but "is unable or unwilling to devote the resources necessary to launch them."

The United States could buy Russian rockets -- which are less expensive than American rockets -- and launch six of the satellites for about $200 million, the CBO said.

The letter lists several arguments against the option, including the fact that if Russia were sufficiently worried about false alarms, it could cough up the money itself. In addition, the six satellites would not allow Russia to monitor launches around the globe, only in the United States.

www.fas.org...



Most Russian military payloads reaching the orbit would be identified only as Cosmos satellites with particular numbers. Any civilian satellites, whose purpose the government would not want to explain, would also receive Cosmos names. It was up to independent observers and historians around the world to struggle with a puzzle of secret space programs. They based their analysis on a combination of available official data and satellite tracking information.

The post-Soviet Russia adopted somewhat "westernized" approach to information policy on military space: the military launches are identified as such and receive traditional Cosmos names.

www.russianspaceweb.com...



According to Russian Space Forces Commander Colonel-General Vladimir Popovkin, there are approximately 60 Russian military satellites currently in orbit.[1] This represents a decrease of two-and-a-half fold since 1990.[1] However, there has been an increase in the percentage of satellites functioning within their normal service lives from 19% in 1999 to 40%.[1] Popovkin points to this as a qualitative change in Russia's military satellite fleet and notes that Russia is again testing new technologies.[1]

cns.miis.edu...



However, we can be fairly confident that Yeltsin's football showed that Russia was not under attack and that the Russian early-warning system was functioning perfectly. In addition to the string of radars surrounding the border of the former Soviet Union, Russia had inherited a complete fleet of early-warning satellites that, even by 1995, still maintained continuous 24-hour coverage of the U.S. continental missile fields. In the early 1990s Russia had still managed to launch replacement satellites for its early-warning system as the previous ones died out -- thereby retaining continuous coverage. Because of those satellites, Yeltsin's display must have shown that no massive attack was lurking just below the horizon.

www.pbs.org...



State Department spokesman James Rubin told a news conference that it would be difficult to assess the current situation over Russia's missile defense system because of its classified nature. "...Nevertheless, it's fair to say that we are concerned about the potential deterioration of Russia's ballistic missile attack warning capabilities without referencing any specific systems,..." Rubin said.
Yadernaya Bezopasnost magazine

Major General Vladimir Dvorkin, the Head of the 4-th Central Research Institute of the Defense Ministry gave some comments on the Post's publication in an interview to the Russian NTV (a TV company). However, he refused to talk about the current status of the Russian EW system. "...I am unable to speak or confirm how many hours we can or can not watch, because this matter is a state secret. Regardless of what I'll say, if these figures are good or not - I'll have to give my next interview being in jail somewhere in Siberia..." (NTV News, 22:00, February 10, 1999)

www.armscontrol.ru...


If that does not make sense to you please go research how many sat's of what types are currently being deployed by the Russians and then figure out how many they need to have to spot a large scale American strike. I have and there really is no logical reason for him to contradict what the Russian government officially confirms on other occasions as that would be revealing classified information and probably ( as one Russian defense ministry spokesmen suggested) mean Siberia.



In one of versions of Third World War, 5 (five) are enough to bring United States to its knees. They move through North Pole, surrounded by fighter escort. Two of them (from left and right) are DRLO planes, the central three ones are cruise missile carriers. They jam all communications and radars, and when they are near Canada, they launch nuclear-armed Kh-101 cruise missiles, which are almost impossible to track until they hit target, that means United States won't be able to counter-attack. After nuclear cruise missiles have crippled USA's nuclear and anti-air potential, Soviet ground troops go in to claim the ground. This plan was widely discussed by Soviet military elite
www.technocracy.ca...


How do they jam "all communications and radars"? It's broad sweeping statements like those that just leaves me wondering why you consider this guy credible? Why are the cruise missiles impossible to track? How can a few dozen cruise missiles with nuclear war.s 'cripple' the US nuclear forces? While i am VERY open minded i don't just go around believing things without proper sourcing and if you can't find at least some kind of related material online we are only speculating and not really contributing.


the soviet plans .... unofficial also , he has given short details here of other interesting weapons
many of lasers were in saryashagan


Well US inspectors went there in the early 90's and found nothing they could relate to such testing or a functioning system. I would suspect that they would test such weaponry elsewhere as those proving and testing grounds were very well known and watched in the 60's and 70's.... If your testing something knowing that you are being watched you probably want to ward of aggression ( as the USSR still had to do in the early 60's hence the testing of the V-1000 and related equipment) by showing off your strength but considering the leap particle beam weaponry were i suspect they did only the basis indoor research there and built the actual systems in some of the locations the DIA suggested...

What is a M-1000 Jet and where can i find information related to that weapon possible being real? I don't mind if you want to speculate and repeat rumours ( i have heard stranger one's that turned out to be accurate) but I'm not going to join you and i would like to keep our discussion related to things being discussed by western/soviet defense or intelligence officials. If that is not possible then it's not constructive and that's the type of information i try stick to.

Stellar



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 01:47 AM
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The American military communications are not hardened to anywhere near the extent Russia's is and unlikely ( according to the senate reports i have seen at least) to survive in the state that would be required to fight a long term nuclear campaign


most of the american military communications since 2000 has been or are being upgraded to fiber optic which is immune to electromagnetic interference




Krutov is not a specialist and going by what he has to say i think he has no background in military or intelligence matters.

certainly he is , go ask ryan mauros



I have been convinced of his authenticity by his in-depth knowledge of Marxist-Leninist strategy and thinking in the modern age, and the real theories of Communism, minus all the different interpretations and adaptations that often manipulate the Western image of the philosophy. He has provided me with pictures, information, and video that has convinced me that he is who he claims to be. He also provided me with a picture of himself in the uniform of a Soviet ground troops commander from before the Soviet Union disintegrated, holding up the newspaper of the date.

My interview with him is meant to serve as an educational guide to understanding the psychological and philosophical guidelines of people such as he involved in the post-Soviet Communist structures that I have discussed and intend to discuss more thoroughly in the future. Here is some background information on Mr. “Ivan Krutov”:

--He is the founder of the AD-13 hacker alliance, a political-oriented cyber warfare group that works in unison with his Communist allies.



--He is the founder of the ATF-BTR Party.



--He is a high ranking “colonel” of the group ASNSR.



--He has flown Soviet and Russian aircraft during several conflicts. He has flown in Vietnam, Africa, Latin America, Egypt, Afghanistan, Chechnya and Iraq.



--In an interview available on the Internet, a link I will provide in a moment, Krutov is described: “I managed to communicate with an underground group engaged in clandestine operations aimed at, as they put it themselves, ‘purifying Russia of American influence and Americans themselves.’ The organization’s name is the Russian Rebel Army (RRA

www.worldthreats.com...





If the younger people are asking for a Stalin they don't know what their asking for and i suggest some education to cure them of their ignorance.

this so called corrupt western democarcy has made the youth desire leaders like Stalin



And those are far more reliable, yes. Any report that suggest most Russians want a Stalin type person back or pretends that such people know what their asking is not imo related to reality.

well,its a fact, people hate democracy there , because it brought them nothing except suffering,prostitution ,poverty and rule of jewish oilgarhs etc..
i say russian reports are more reliable than western ones ,i take opinion of russians as reliable than westerners



This guy is certifiable not very sane imo.

i understood his hardcore stalinism makes you shudder ... i even makes me



It was stealthy in that there was no way to target such weapons with counter fire; they could be trusted to keep firing as long as you could provide them with reloads. I am not sure how they were supposed to be able to make these missiles 'stealthy'


there capability to avoid the thermosphere



I'm open minded and i will listen as long as you don't expert me to believe this based on what Krutov says...

AYAKS is SSTO with a MGD and MHD powered by a nuclear reactor ...
MHD is meant for operation in the mesosphere and the stratosphere and MGD is meant for operation in thermosophere and space ... ,in the mesosphere it could generate a plasma field around itself that could absorb radar beams


it could also be used to operate b/w earth and moon and if upgraded to tokomak fusion reactor it could be used for interplantery travel in the solar system ...




Please do some research as to who runs to who always benefits most by these treaties. Then please investigate how the USSR and Russia always breaks whatever parts of the treaties they want with the CIA

possibly so because himoyad nukes are far more powerful than conventional nukes and russia may be making those..






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posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 02:20 AM
link   


Actually if you look at the physical structure required for constant surveillance of the American land based ICBMs Russia have never had a gap in coverage for more than a few days since 1990


most american nukes are in AIRFORCE OR SUBS and mere 440 are ICBM's


Fig.1. Russia's existing ground-based early-warning radar network, intended to detect incoming missiles, provides incomplete coverage [yellow]. Most of the radars are positioned along the country's periphery, with a few scattered in neighboring countries. From corridors on both the north Atlantic and the Pacific, submarine-based Trident ballistic missiles could fly, undetected, to attack Moscow and Russian missile fields.
russianforces.org...
If a Trident attack were to come from the Atlantic, Moscow could be destroyed in less than 10 minutes after the initial radar detection, provided that no blinding precursor attack had been attempted. Within minutes of that strike, most Russian strategic ICBM fields would also come under attack. If a Trident attack were to come instead from the Pacific, Moscow could be destroyed with zero warning time.

the problem is not ICBM's its the tridents which are a problem ... even i do not believe this model many icbm are in under radar coverage ,its a theory
model that is not possible


How do they jam "all communications and radars"?

ionospheric weaponry ...


That's why Soviet goverment choose other way - development of ionosphere weaponry: drones or missiles that create large plasma clouds that absorb energy of radar beams, converting it to IR signature, not distinguishable when used at large scale. They can also project artificial "polar lights" (or how is it called in English) to scare the enemy (some of the UFO sightnings looked exactly like tests of these, but I am not sure).
www.technocracy.ca...



How can a few dozen cruise missiles with nuclear war.s 'cripple' the US nuclear forces?
What is a M-1000 Jet and where can i find information related to that weapon possible being real?

m-1000 was to be variant of gerakl aircraft to be based on AN-225
it could carry 900-1000 tonnes of munitions ,missiles ,1200 soldiers etc..
these things would carry hundreds of cruise missiles
another link:
www.astronautix.com...


It is Soviet M-1000 (Molniya-1000) "Gerakl" project. No working prototypes was ever constructed, it was done purely mathematically. We know it will work because it uses the same details and nodes as An-225. Any factory that can produce An-225 can produce M-1000. You can trust this thing, because it was constructed by legendary Lozino-Lozinskiy, the same person that created "Buran" and "Molniya-MAKS
www.technocracy.ca...



While i am VERY open minded i don't just go around believing things without proper sourcing

then start searching russian websites
p.s , even krutov had said once that s-300 can intercept ICBM's


As i said Stalin died in 1953 and that would make require 35% of the current Russian population to be age 55-60 to even begin to form a understanding of what the USSR were like under him. If those 55-60 age group ask for another Stalin they must be suffering from some kind of form of amnesia as things have only gotten better since those days

stalin was a madman ,known fact, but he industrialized russia at lightning speed .....
if you believe stalin murdered 20-60 million thats nazi propaganda used by rummel for his 'black book on communism'
stalin is resp for 5-8 million deaths in USSR

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posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 04:44 AM
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STELLAR , MORE ON M-1000(a mod of gerakl)


Molniya is a leading aircraft research and production company set up in 1976 under the Buran project that led to the single flight in November 1988.
Since the 1980s, Molniya has embarked on the "flying space launch site" effort and has developed the Molniya and Gerakl heavy-lift carrier aircraft
en.rian.ru...




Skyfurnaces from "Red Star" ( redstar.com ) remind me real-life Soviet planes M-1000. These are REALLY HUGE aircrafts, which can be used as:
a)Transport (YEAH, "KRAWL DROPS"!!!)
b)Kh-101 missile carrier (two or three of these beasts are enough to wipe out ALL American defence systems)
c)Superefficient AWACS system
d)Laser carrier (imagine the situation: USSR nukes USA, USA nukes back, but M-1000 shoot American nukes down)
e)Flying aircraft carrier
d)Flying spaceship carrier (can carry small MAKS assault shuttles, which can rip all NATO space systems to shreds in a matter of minutes)

If you want pictures of M-1000 and other Soviet advancements, visit my site:
soviet-technology.boom.ru...

Soviets are probably the most creative nation ever.
Flying aircraft carriers? Not a problem (was used against Nazis)!
Flying SUBMARINES? No problem!
Walker robots? As easy as everything else!
Hypersonic crafts? Easily!
UFOs? Yes!!!
Ion thrusters? Plasma stealth field generators? Plasmochemical drives? Yes! Yes! Yes!
Again, pictures of all these inventions can be found on my site:
soviet-technology.boom.ru...
www.politicsforum.org...



more credible than his ignorance on military matters has so suggest him to be

thats a silly comment stellar , go try argue with him and you will know


I studied mathematics, physics, biology, chemistry, quantum mathematics, superstring theory, and many other fields. I am not even mentioning cybernetics and evolutionary theory—I founded my own laboratory to test my ideas in ways to fuel evolution. You can find me articles in the archives of the website of the Russian underground electronic magazine, “Hacker” (www.xakep.ru)”.
www.worldthreats.com...



Why is he trying to predict the future when he does not know what happened before or what is happening now? I have not seen him say much that is related to open source material and without sources i don't see why you have chosen to just believe him




We DID give up power in the Soviet Union (but without destroying our agent network—we became a shadow force behind Russia), to show the Russian people what life under capitalism means. Now, disgusted and oppressed, they are calling us to help them. And we will come back
www.worldthreats.com...

they gave up power because of the fool gorbachev ,but always had some plans or the other


It may be 'outdated' but it's there and unless he is claiming that it's not working he is just saying what so many in the west would like to believe.

even podvig in 2005 , after seeing new russian source material said the radar gap is small.


Is is not his job to plead for more equipment when his in 'acquisitions' any ways?

i did not understand ????
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posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 07:08 AM
link   


i said Stalin died in 1953 and that would make require 35% of the current Russian population to be age 55-60 to even begin to form a understanding of what the USSR were like under him. If those 55-60 age group ask for another Stalin they must be suffering from some kind of form of amnesia as things have only gotten better since those days. I don't think you should believe in every pole result you see. If the younger people are asking for a Stalin they don't know what their asking for and i suggest some education to cure them of their ignorance

GRIFFITHS: Fast cars, cash and casinos – modern Russia doesn’t look like a nation struggling with the ghosts of its communist past. This is a society where money rules, which makes it all the more bizarre to discover that having discarded the dreams of a worker’s paradise years ago, Russians are still deeply divided over the legacy of Joseph Stalin.
ALEXEI SIDOROV: For me he’s the figure who played the greatest role in the 20th century. A figure for which he undoubtedly should be highly praised.
JOE GLAZER: Stalin to my opinion, and I keep quiet about it, shouldn’t be remembered at all. Not a word.
GRIFFITHS: Stalin ruled the Soviet Union for nearly thirty years. Under his reign millions perished, executed by the secret police, killed in famines or sent to die in labour camps. Yet Comrade Stalin was also . of the Red Army when it defeated the Nazis.
Nowadays there is fresh interest in Stalin. You can buy DVDs and plenty of new released books about the man. In some of them he’s painted as a tyrant, in others as a hero, but this isn’t just an argument about history. It’s also about politics in Russia today.
Stalin has always had his diehard fans among older Russians who grew up when the world respected the power of the Soviet Union.
ELDERLY RUSSIAN LADY: He is the man who created our country. How can you not love him? I know that he was just, honest, and as you know when Stalin died we were all crying.
GRIFFITHS: The difference now is some of their grandchildren agree. Young Russians who were still kids when communism collapsed, like Alexei Sidorov.
ALEXEI SIDOROV: There is still a demand for the man who ruled the very first State where the working people received the right to run the country.
GRIFFITHS: For his admirers, Stalin is above all the successful war leader. He led the country to victory in the great patriotic war, World War II and claims his place alongside the Red Army’s other heroes. To twenty-three year old Alexei Sidorov and his friends, Stalin is the ultimate leader.
GRIGORY SHVEDOV: Well we don’t know personally but that was really a popular thing that even in Gulag, people were believing that this is a mistake, Stalin is a hero, they’re innocent and this is just a tragic mistake.
GRIFFITHS: File upon file of tragic mistakes. Official soviet records show more than six hundred thousand executions and nearly three million sent to camps. Many believe the real numbers are much higher.
GRIGORY SHVEDOV: People don’t want to remember these dark things. People don’t want to remember millions of deaths. People don’t want to remember a country which became a huge concentration camp.
GRIFFITHS: That’s certainly not the same Stalin Alexei Sidorov knows and loves. He says Stalin’s opponents exaggerate the figures.
ALEXEI SIDOROV: First of all, we have to look through the archives, the statistics, and not invent figures which are offered liberally by amateurs which belong in the Guinness Book of Records.
GRIGORY SHVEDOV: Russian public consciousness is fully supportive to renaming streets with Stalin’s brand, renaming towns, naming their parks with Stalin and some other Soviet symbol names so I think this victory is already in the Kremlin
www.abc.net.au...



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 07:11 AM
link   
Make us, Russians, your slaves but feed us., April 25, 2005
124 years later Dostoyevsky's view of Russia and the "Russian Soul" in this book is still proving to be terribly valid. Through his characters Ivan and The Grand Inquisitor he expresses a profoundly Russian view of the world, that man prefers security abd even death to freedom of choice.
This book is a fascinating story about murder, but to me what Dostoyevsky reveals about Russia, in telling that story, is even more fascinating. And, yes, chilling (they are the only people who, in a matter of hours, could devastate us). If as you read this book you keep in mind what is going on in Russia today, you will see that Dostoyevsky's Russia is still intact, but now with nukes. Current events are proving the truth of what experts on Feyodor Dostoyevsky have said in the past: if you want to understand Russia you must go to him as a source, "He is Russia".
Russia after trying freedom is turning away from it step by step just like Ivan, The Grand Inquisitor, that is, Feyodor predicted. In Russia freedom is being traded for bread and a sense of security.
Dostoyevesky is dead but his spirit still rules in the Kremlin.
.
. A poll of Russian people showed that nearly a half of them want another leader like Joseph Stalin. President Putin sounds like the Grand Inquisitor when he says the break-up of the Soviet Union was a great catastrophe! But another poll indicated that 70% of Russians want Putin to be even more authoritarian. We may not like the fact that Putin is moving away from freedom but he is looking over his shoulder at Dostoyevsky/Russia and is afraid that he is not moving fast enough. .
What a genius Dostoyevsky was in understanding and describing nature so basic to his people and instincts so deep that they are even immune to revolution and exposure to freedom. And he weaves this revelation all into a complex multi-dimensional novel about patricide. Or it could be vica versa
www.amazon.com...

[edit on 5-1-2007 by vK_man]



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 03:48 AM
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SSTO is "AYaKS", because it uses powerful MGD-drive and MGD-thruster. It is not even SSTO, it is complete aerospace vessel. It do not "goes to orbit and returns". It can go "in-between", i.e. in mesosphere. Just for you knowledge: mesosphere area is invulnerable for American weaponry. You cannot hit it with missile or laser.

"AYaKS" hull converts energy of surfacial plasma to boost efficiency of MGD-drive. MGD-drive itself works as on-board reactor, with energy output, enough to light (i.e. provide with energy - or obliterate) medium-sized city. This energy goes to on-board systems and weaponry.

Since most powerful compact lasers today is Russian MGD-lasers (all modern American military-grade lasers are based on Russian MGD-device "Pamir ZU", sure, it explains much), produced by "Almaz" and "TRINITI", "AYaKS" reactor is completely compatible with most powerful Soviet laser weaponry.

www.technocracy.ca...

------------------------------------------------------

STELLAR THESE ARE DETAILS ABOUT AYAKS AND THERE WERE ONLY 2 PROTOTYPES IN EXISTENCE IN FORMER USSR
------------------------------------------
"AYaKS" SSTO (!) military-grade shuttle with MGD-drive (!), MGD-reactor (!) and MGD-thruster(!), which starts from ordinary airstrips (payload - 7 tons); unlike most other orbiters, flight of this one is extremely cheap, because it uses fuel which more than 90% consists of ordinary water (!), thanks to surfacial plasma energy conversion technology, which automatically processes water, breaking it down to oxygen and hydrogen (other 10% of fuel is ordinary low-quality cerosine), this plane has complete natural plasma stealth capability, which makes it invisible for radar; my verdict - most sophisticated and advanced aerospace vehicle ever concieved

www.technocracy.ca...
-------------------------------------------------

this is for normal aerospace mode, with ion thrusters these could be modified to interplanetary mode



Please show otherwise as i do not see why i should choose his word over well established source material


no need to ... be comfortable and as for krutov , too many things he told or warned about have come true , and yes too many russians(nazbols) believe him .. rather than 'western' intelligience material..

and he was a former scientific engineer and officer of the KGB , fine ,by me a very good source i must say..


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posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 03:01 AM
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Some really interesting technical information VK and even thought i have seen some related material before it's certainly worth taking a closer look at... That is all fine but Krutov seems to go out of his way to dismiss current Russian strength ( something one can prove) and focus all his energy talking about the rise of a communism and weapon systems that we have little evidence is or will be deployed any time soon. I can not consider him credible while he tries to paint the US as a credible threat ( at this stage as things can change fast) to Russian strategic security only to encourage nationalism and militarism in his apparent youthful cohorts.

Why not study what we know and can prove that so strongly shows that Russia never gave up it's strategic dominance and only used their strength to reform both their conventional forces and strategic forces which were always relatively inefficiently ( they deployed units far in excess of long term maintenance capacity expecting the US to make a last desperate grasp for power) deployed and maintained beyond their nomimal service periods.

It did give them a overwhelming superiority but much of the infrastructure contributed little and simply drained the civil economy of what little vitality it had... If one investigates how the breakup proceeded you might quickly discover how much they gained and how little they really lost...

I will respond to your posts in more detail later...

Stellar

[edit on 7-1-2007 by StellarX]


ape

posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 03:58 AM
link   

posted by stellarx
I can not consider him credible while he tries to paint the US as a credible threat


oh right compared to russia the US is a third world power, even vk_man is trying to talk some sense into you but it appears you're to damn stubborn.

russia is a regional power not a super power, a super power projects economic influence along with other aspects of influence, a super power also maintains all of it's forces and projects force worldwide something russia does not, what information can you provide that proves russia is a. of the US???

I work in telecommunications, right now verizon is building in fiber all over the country and are even competing with cable with its fios program, fiber is being installed in new houses and businesses and being overlayed in existing homes and businesses, in 20 years most of the US will be fiber optics, so there goes your theory about US equipment being vulnerable, I know because I live and work in this country, you dont have the slightest clue stellarX.


vk man please quote this because stellarX has me ignored

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posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 12:35 AM
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Some really interesting technical information VK

thanks for the praise stellarX



Krutov seems to go out of his way to dismiss current Russian strength ( something one can prove) and focus all his energy talking about the rise of a communism

well, even i agree he dismisses russian strength to some extent and focuses on communism




weapon systems that we have little evidence is or will be deployed any time soon.

YEAH??
LIKE THE PHOTO OF AYAKS ON HIS WEBSITE THAT SNAPPED IN THE 80'S , DON'T YOU REALISE ITS REAL?
and russians tested their weapon system , many yeaRS in advance like ka-50 was tested in afghanistan under the name v-80 and used to destroy tunnels and it withstood several hits from stinger missiles AND EVEN USE TO SURVIVE STINGER HITS ON THEIR TAILS AND MANAGED TO RETURN TO BASE.... AROUND 50 WERE TESTED ...

YES I AGREE THEY ARE NOT OFFICIALLY DEPLOYED


I can not consider him credible while he tries to paint the US as a credible threat

usa is the biggest threat because of PNAC primary goal to destroy russia once and for all....
bush is a member of PNAC







Originally posted by ape
fiber is being installed in new houses and businesses and being overlayed in existing homes and businesses, in 20 years most of the US will be fiber optics, so there goes your theory about US equipment being vulnerable


BUT, THERE ARE COMPONENTS LIKE PHOTODIODES AND LED'S OR LASER EMITTING DIODES THAT ARE VULNERABLE AS THESE ALSO USE ELECTRICAL SIGNALS , AND FROM WHAT I KNOW ONLY MILITARY HARDENS THESE COMPONENTS

ALSO THE POWER GENERATION INFRASTRUCTURE IS VULNERABLE TO EMP , BUT MILITARY COMMUNICATIONS HAS BEEN IMPROVED HEAVILY AND VULNERABLITY OF US MILITARY TO EMP IS VERY LOW NOW....


russia is a regional power not a super power, a super power projects economic influence along with other aspects of influence,

agreed....russia is a regional power economically


a super power also maintains all of it's forces and projects force worldwide something

correction ,this is imperialism if you are talking in terms of military



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ape

posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 01:18 AM
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BUT, THERE ARE COMPONENTS LIKE PHOTODIODES AND LED'S OR LASER EMITTING DIODES THAT ARE VULNERABLE AS THESE ALSO USE ELECTRICAL SIGNALS , AND FROM WHAT I KNOW ONLY MILITARY HARDENS THESE COMPONENTS



here is some information on how the US and companies would go about this.

www.heritage.org...

consider this article is from 2 years ago.

fiber optic cables are not vulberable to EMP only copper is that is not protected, however what is vulnerable are the switches and controls that use microelectronics in conjunction with the fiber optic cable that need to be protected and hardened which could easily be done.

the US is concerned about EMP but fiber is helping reduce these fears but the proper precautions and testing must be taken into consideration before getting comfortable, the US spends alot of dough and so do the companies installing the fiber, you can bet safeguards will be in place.

" Assess which assets of the nation's power grid and telecommunications infrastructure are most critical to the overall system and Harden those critical assets against EMP"

the US wont get 1upped in this scenario, they are laying fiber because not only is it the future it is not expensive to harden like copper is and has a higher probability of survival in an EMP scenario compared to copper.



correction ,this is imperialism if you are talking in terms of military


look up the term superpower and whats involved to be considered one.





[edit on 8-1-2007 by ape]




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