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CIA Tried to Silence EU on Torture Flights

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posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 03:02 AM
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Richard Norton-Taylor
Thursday October 26, 2006

The CIA tried to persuade Germany to silence EU protests about the human rights record of one of America's key allies in its clandestine torture flights programme, the Guardian can reveal.

According to a secret intelligence report, the CIA offered to let Germany have access to one of its citizens, an al-Qaida suspect being held in a Moroccan cell. But the US secret agents demanded that in return, Berlin should cooperate and "avert pressure from EU" over human rights abuses in the north African country. The report describes Morocco as a "valuable partner in the fight against terrorism".

On one occasion, CIA pilots and crew lived it up in Majorca after rendering Benyam Mohammed, an Ethiopian brought up in Notting Hill, west London, to Afghanistan where he was tortured. Benyam was detained in Pakistan early in 2002, and then flown to Morocco, where he says he suffered appalling torture. He is being held at Guantánamo Bay.



I've always been proud at being Westerner, but what should we be proud of nowadays, at the democratic values we're defending?

What does make us any better than the terrorists we are fighting, when we are practicing torture and other criminal activities; when we're doing the same we condemn Iran, Syria, and Saddam Hussein for.

It's sad to see how low we have fallen.




posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by Mdv2


It's sad to see how low we have fallen.


It's sad to see people making defeatist comments and criticisms when the west is in a very difficult situation. I believe the west is the next prime target for radicalist-muslim conquests. It is vital we obtain any information we can. This isnt like Vietnam, where if we lose this...we just go back home. The enemy is on EUROPE's doorstep and is ready to decay your countries from the inside out. Europeans better get their heads on straight and leave these moral and ethical sympathies behind for the time being.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan

It's sad to see people making defeatist comments and criticisms when the west is in a very difficult situation. I believe the west is the next prime target for radicalist-muslim conquests. It is vital we obtain any information we can.The enemy is on EUROPE's doorstep and is ready to decay your countries from the inside out. Europeans better get their heads on straight and leave these moral and ethical sympathies behind for the time being.


Are you trying to impress me by this Neocon bogus? There's no enemy on our doorstep. It's your government that is increasing the terrorist threat and Islamic radicalism and simulteneously limiting our freedoms.


Originally posted by XphilesPhan
This isnt like Vietnam, where if we lose this...we just go back home.


In case you didn't notice yet, the harsh reality is that the US is not going to win this war. However, it does result in something... it feeds anti Westerner feelings and prevented the Dollar from an early collapse.


It might be useful to the read the following article, since you obviously don't know what you are talking about:


Why War Fails

By Howard Zinn

10/23/06 " The Progressive" -- - - I suggest there is something important to be learned from the recent experience of the United States and Israel in the Middle East: that massive military attacks are not only morally reprehensible but useless in achieving the stated aims of those who carry them out.

In the three years of the Iraq War, which began with shock-and-awe bombardment and goes on with day-to-day violence and chaos, the United States has failed utterly in its claimed objective of bringing democracy and stability to Iraq. American soldiers and civilians, fearful of going into the neighborhoods of Baghdad, are huddled inside the Green Zone, where the largest embassy in the world is being built, covering 104 acres and closed off from the world outside its walls.

I remember John Hersey's novel The War Lover, in which a macho American pilot, who loves to drop bombs on people, and also to boast about his sexual conquests, turns out to be impotent. George Bush, strutting in his flight jacket on an aircraft carrier, and announcing victory in Iraq, has turned out to be an embodiment of the Hersey character, his words equally boastful, his military machine equally impotent.

The Israeli invasion and bombing of Lebanon has not brought security to Israel. Indeed, it has increased the number of its enemies, whether in Hezbollah or Hamas, or among Arabs who belong to neither of those groups.

Source



[edit on 26-10-2006 by Mdv2]



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 04:39 AM
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Mdv2, yes I wonder how many people are begining to realise that we are no better than our so called enemies.
Xphile, do you work for the Thought Police, the West is made up of Democratic Countries in which the populace have a right to free speech and to express their opinions. You obviously think that is wrong, people like Hitler and Stalin would of been proud of you and Bush would appalud you.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 03:11 AM
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If America loses it's morality and humanity while fighting this War Against Terror, then what will we have left to defend? If we allow all of our freedoms to be eroded in an effort to defend our way of life, what will we have that's worth all the lives and freedoms expended? I think we are now looked upon as bullies and thugs. We seem to be doing exactly what the American Indians said of us, centuries ago: "White man speaks with forked tongue." I don't want to have to awaken some morning and be embarrassed to say I'm an American... I love this country. I want to continue to love it, and be proud of America.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 04:26 AM
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Don`t believe everything you read.The CIA flights could be nothing more than moving equipment.There not very clandestine way of doin things the fact that the EU especially Spain are making a bit of a fuss at the moment proves that.Spainsh govt along with other EU countries at the moment a bit upset with current US Govt that probably decided that because EU states arn`t in the loop and supporting US why should they involve them when the CIA flies in.There isn`t any laws excluding these planes they don`t need permisson but it is good manners to tell the authorities you there, it just diplomatic tit for tat.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by zuri
Don`t believe everything you read.The CIA flights could be nothing more than moving equipment.


Is this some kind of denial stunt?


Johannesburg (AND) Denmark has become one of the first European countries to admit that the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) had used its airspace to transport terror suspects to unknown destinations

Source



Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos has admitted Spain may have been a stopover for secret CIA flights.

The Spanish government is investigating more than 60 suspect flights, most of them passing through Palma de Mallorca and Tenerife.

Mr Moratinos said US authorities had given assurances that there had been no secret passengers on board planes stopping over in Spain.

However, Spanish authorities were investigating flights which could have been used to detain or fly prisoners before or after the stopovers, he said.

Source


With other words, CIA authorities lied to their Spanish ally as the following sourc will confirm:


The CIA used planes of Air America, a group of private companies it secretly owned, and a second company, Aero Contractors. A CIA Gulfstream V jet, frequently used for the secret rendition of prisoners, flew to Diego Garcia, the British Indian Ocean territory where the US has a large base, the book says. Grey plans to publish more than 3,000 logs of the CIA flights on the internet this week.

CIA pilots, sometimes using false identities and whose planes regularly passed through Britain, ran up huge bills in luxury hotels after flying terrorist suspects to secret locations where they were tortured. But they revealed their whereabouts and identities by indiscreet use of mobile phones and allowed outsiders to track their aircraft's flights.

On one occasion, CIA pilots and crew lived it up in Majorca after rendering Benyam Mohammed, an Ethiopian brought up in Notting Hill, west London, to Afghanistan where he was tortured. Benyam was detained in Pakistan early in 2002, and then flown to Morocco, where he says he suffered appalling torture. He is being held at Guantánamo Bay.

Guardian


and




posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 03:18 AM
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You haven`t posted any CIA documents admitting that they carry prisioners on these flights (and u unlikely to as against T&C of this site).Like l said the govts are a bit upset the US doesn`t tell them whats going on.The US a bit upset that they haven`t had more help previously.Plus as you have posted these rumours you can hardly expect the NSA,CIA to inform anybody as there media obviously doesn`t mind publishing these damaging facts.



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by zuri
You haven`t posted any CIA documents admitting that they carry prisioners on these flights (and u unlikely to as against T&C of this site).Like l said the govts are a bit upset the US doesn`t tell them whats going on.The US a bit upset that they haven`t had more help previously.Plus as you have posted these rumours you can hardly expect the NSA,CIA to inform anybody as there media obviously doesn`t mind publishing these damaging facts.


I think you're missing the point: the EU Govts have been lied to by someone who claims to be an ally and have been implicated in illegal acts by allowing the CIA to transport suspects through their airports for torture.

If the EU were to do this to US citizens you guys would be up in arms / bombing Europe, the EU is expected to keep quiet as America has 'God on its side' and therefore is above criticism.

It's not a question about being a 'bit upset', it's about adhering to international law, having some standards of decent behaviour.

The CIA etc have never admitted they're torturing people because they know it's completely illegal.



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Strangerous


I think you're missing the point: the EU Govts have been lied to by someone who claims to be an ally and have been implicated in illegal acts by allowing the CIA to transport suspects through their airports for torture.


They didn`t lie they just didn`t tell them.Every govt in this world does thing`s that are illegal.You can`t put the countries leaders in prison.Every Embassy around the world uses Diplomats that are nothing more than members of the intel community.They don`t ring and ask permission.At the moment there isn`t any evidence for any thing that has been done illegally.



If the EU were to do this to US citizens you guys would be up in arms / bombing Europe, the EU is expected to keep quiet as America has 'God on its side' and therefore is above criticism.


Are you sure they don`t.Don`t be so nieve.Secrets excist for lots of reasons.Just cos it ain`t being discussed on the net or news don`t me it has or doen`t happen.



It's not a question about being a 'bit upset', it's about adhering to international law, having some standards of decent behaviour.


Please state and show your evidence of any law breaking.



The CIA etc have never admitted they're torturing people because they know it's completely illegal.


Yes but sometimes the needs are more imprtant than international laws.The CIA a capable of transporting people around the globe without needing to land in commercial airports.There are plenty of military planes one could strap a suspect to the belly of a B52 bomber.Doesn`t need to land and l`m sure after a few minutes the guy would be singing like a canary




posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 11:31 AM
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Torture is illegal under international law. Torturing POW's is unlawful under the Geneva Convention - do some basic research into the subject and then you come back and show me where it's legal to torture people.

If, as you suggest, people could be transported 'without using international airports' then there wouldn't be an issue (apart from the principle of a country flouting the law) - the fact is they can't, people were 'rendered' using EU friendly-nations' airports and that is what our Govts are annoyed about - being made an accessory to a criminal act by a supposed ally.

Thank god for the EU - having the cojones to stand up to the US bully and question the abuses and crimes committed in GWB's jihad. Shame T. Bliar didn't demonstrate similar conviction / faith in the law



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Strangerous
Torturing POW's is unlawful under the Geneva Convention - do some basic research into the subject and then you come back and show me where it's legal to torture people.


My 2 yr old dog knows torture is illegal, he also knows that the US openly ignores and disregards and dosn`t sign to the geneva convention.

The point Zuri made was that secrets cover up and therfore don`t excist so no laws are being broken because nobody knows.I cant arrest you for drug taking whilst using ATS if l don`t know u doin it, but if you stupid enough to include a web cam showing you doin it, thats different, but if all it shows is you sat there doin nothing l also can`t accuse you but i could right stuff all over the net stating that you are breaking the law along with your picture.Then call that evidance.

Thats rubbish yes so is stating these aircraft are being used to transport and torture victims.

There simple used by high ranking intel members to move around the world meeting other super spooks.You don`t think the head of the NSA,CIA travel Pan Am.



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