Chinese massacres Tibetan refugees

Originally posted by warset
Alright, you won....

so what are you suggesting to do?

Trying to kill the mainstream Han chinese, burn down their shops, and retake tibet?
you know that's impossible right?

Or you rather talk things out and see if you find any solutions?

I know some tibetan are sad and acting actively about the free tibet issue, but you know it's not gonna happen, so why don't instead cooperate are see if it can be solved in other ways?

I see Dalai Lama has changed his agenda resently from having an independent tibet to a special administrative tibet (like the policy used in Hong Kong), that's a good sign of accepting reality.

I hope he can eventually work things out before he passes away.

ps. be optimistic about it!
being pessimistic won't solve anything, and only cause more sadness, am I right?

[edit on 10/30/2006 by warset]

Trying to kill the mainstream Han chinese, burn down their shops, and retake tibet?
you know that's impossible right?

Please, we the Tibetan people and the Tibetan govt in Exile do not want to harm our Chinese brothers and sisters.
We want to approach this peacefully, just as we have been since the day we were driven to Exile.
My people, our Dalai Lama, and our exiled Tibetan Govt plead for dialogue with the Beijing & humbly ask for mutual respect since the day we were Exiled, but we had doors slammed in our face many times but we are still hopeful because of my Chinese brothers like yourself, we (majority of Tibetans) trully believe in non-violent struggle and (again stating) Someone like you are the light in this never ending tunnel of suffering for us Tibetan. I thank you for your cooperation & I longed for the day when Beijing calls our Exiled govt for dialogue to resolve this issue and grant us Tibetans a true meaningful autonmous region where our people are not oppressed and we can all live in harmony.

[edit on 30-10-2006 by Himalayan]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor


First off, please point to where I am playing stupid. Second off, I never said all you "chicom lovers f*** off". I have never used that word in my life [chicom that is]. Perhaps you have me confused with Trickz. If anyone is dismissing people it would be you by calling us "Merrikans" who are ignorant. Or K4rupt saying we are all ignorant Westerners when we clearly seem to know more than you do (proved wrong by Himalayan).

Since this thread is about Chinese persecution of Tibet, I think you have made your point through argument and finally submission to Himalayan. Tata

First of all, retinoid, you are VERY ignorant of the PRC. Half the arguments you used are complete B.S. and the other half are your own idiotic opinions.

Secondly, Himalayan has NOT proved ANY of us wrong. Unlike you, retinoid, I'm a bit more open-minded. I never stated that all of the PRC's actions against the Tibetans ARE great, I'm just showing both sides of the story - the good and the bad. Yet YOU come here and start blasting the PRC with biased and half-true b.s.

The reality of the situation is simple - Tibet is part of China and NOTHING anyone can do about it can change that. The best thing YOU can hope for, is for a more liberal China and more autonomy to parts of China... which is exactly what the Dalai Lama is tyring to accomplish.


All that you China-bashers and Freetibeters are doing is taking a step BACk for Tibet. Instead, do what the Dalai Lama is doing - urge autonomy... nothing else. Don't talk # about China and it's people by making up lies, half-truths, and biased B.S. Don't be so hypocritical about China when your country has done the EXACT SAME #. Be open minded... (*hint hint, retinoid)

Himalayan, I thank you for being open minded and refraining frmo using B.S. to smudge China and it's people. Peaceful activism towards Autonomy is the correct way to go, and as long as your organization wants autonomy while staying with the RPC, refrains from bashing China's image and destroying the image of the Chinese people, I whole-heartedly support you.

I just pray more of the pro-tibet people become like you... then the Tibetan issue can truly move forward.



[edit on 30-10-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by k4rupt


Secondly, Himalayan has NOT proved ANY of us wrong.

Originally posted by warsetAlright, you won....

I think that kind of means Himalayan proved someone wrong when they say "alright you won". You know...the bs about Tibetan people being happy and all.

Unlike you, retinoid, I'm a bit more open-minded. I never stated that all of the PRC's actions against the Tibetans ARE great,

Wow so open minded. You said that killing, torturing, and cultural imperialism is not great. Geez I wish I was as open minded as YOU K4rupt!

The reality of the situation is simple - Tibet is part of China and NOTHING anyone can do about it can change that.

And why is Tibet part of China? Why are Tibetans a minority now in their own country?

All that you China-bashers and Freetibeters are doing is taking a step BACk for Tibet.

No we are bringing up what China has done and is still doing. You come on here and first try to air brush it, and now you say we are ignorant. Don't know how that works really...

Don't be so hypocritical about China when your country has done the EXACT SAME #. Be open minded... (*hint hint, retinoid)

I am not "hypocritical" because I never stook up for what my country is doing or has done that is bad or imperialistic. I actually condemn my country when it is wrong, even if it is my country unlike you. Oh nevermind you said what your country did in Tibet isn't "great".

Himalayan, I thank you for being open minded and refraining frmo using B.S. to smudge China and it's people.

I never wrote anything to smudge China's people, only China's government. Tata

Everyone should chill out here, there is no reason to call each other idiots or use silly names against one another, we're all here to have a discussion.

Moderators

Here is a comment made by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz which was openly racist. I hope it will be dealt with accordingly

^^^^ Very racist indeed, lol I hope you choke on those slave labor chop sticks.

MOD: If you please read this thread, I am certain you'll come to conclusion to not to lock this thread, well, that is if you are considering locking it.

-regards

[edit on 30-10-2006 by Himalayan]

We are dealing with people who are not here to have a sensible discussion about the topic. Lets all get back on topic now.

Why, WHY are the chinese killing people trying to LEAVE???

Originally posted by Nygdan
We are dealing with people who are not here to have a sensible discussion about the topic. Lets all get back on topic now.

Why, WHY are the chinese killing people trying to LEAVE???

My people have been and still are fleeing because we are oppressed under Chinese rule and they are getting shot at and killed because China wants to keep a lid on the Tibet issue, they don't want the world to know what they have done and still are doing in Tibet. The refugees that are regularly received in Dharamsala (where our Exile Tibetan govt is located), they tell of horrible atrocities still carried out against Tibetans. There are about 150,000 + Tibetan living in Exile, (mostly in India but through out different country) because of this never ending oppression that we are faced with my people are constantly fleeing to India. If we are so properous and happy under Chinese rule then why would we flee, knowing the life and death danger that we know awaits us when we flee. With the situation not getting any better now that Hans are populating Tibet, and not the mension the Bombardier Railroad that has recently been finished, thus systematically eradicating my peoples identity.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by Himalayan]

When i saw your replies, i dismissed you as a troll and decided not to post. But now your making up all these lies so i decided i'll reply

Originally posted by Himalayan
hinder my peoples struggle for freedom. you are hoping the foreigners would stop supporting us by bringing up false information

My people, Earth to Moses. You dont represent or are not the representative of any group

Freedom?

Before the china re-took tibet, it was under a fedual system of government where there were masters and slaves, quite like the times of the serfs in Russia pre-1917. You make it out as though all tibetians are religious in nature, which is not true. They were bought up in a system like the middile ages worshipping a god of sorts. If chinese funding wasn't supporting tibet, it would end up disease infested and still developing the three pointed pitch fork

Flase information?

Jesus, all accounts from any tibetian should be taken like a pinch of salt. A supposedly "eye witness" from the tibetian camp claimed the soldiers fired at them for 15mins to make it sound like a masscare took place. We have a actual video which ONLY shows TWO shots being fired. How do you expect foreigners to believe in tibetian accounts

- REBELLION! because we are oppresed under your Chinese govt rule

And if i went out in america and started signing praises for the governemnts distruction and shooting the police, i would also get thrown in jail. I think thats just what happened in Afganistan and Iraq.

that is why USA does not treat minorities that way anymore

Why dont they get off the land and give it back to the native americans?.

Holding a picture of the dalai lama is not a offence, holding a picture of the dalai lama and preaching about a rebellion in his name is.

Its got nothing to do with religion, tibet has its own dalai lama and it has tibetian churches, why dont the tibetians what to pray there?. I'll tell you why, they have their own intentions and they want to go back on the treaty they signed with china in 1950 which the DALAI LAMA SIGNED HIMSELF. I dont care what you make of this, all treaties are signed under pressure and this was no exception.

Tibet was never a free country or a independent country. It has always belonged to china and the western powers acknowledged that with the nuermous treaties signed in the 19-20th centruy




--------------

The Video on the BBC shows the PLA shooting at a long column of people. It shows he was firing one bullet at a time and at the lead of the group suggesting he was trying to stop them leaving.

What it doesn't show is what happened before the shooting which chinese soldiers have claimed they were attacked. This could suggest a reason why the chinese soldiers would be shooting at them

Here is how a imagine it went

- Group of tibetians try to cross into india
- Stopped by small group of PLA soldiers
- Argument erupts and that group lets them go
- PLA back to base camp where they report to commander and gets order to stop them
- Two far away already and decide to enforce the law either though possible warnings shots "excluded" by westerners and then shooting them to mean their serious

Here is the video,

news.bbc.co.uk...

The soldier shot once and felled the first one which later got up and ran, the soldier did not re-fire on him again and later on fired into the back of the group which suggest he gave them a warning with the first shot and wasn't trying to make it fatal

Originally posted by Himalayan
sbusive parents? serial killer ? crack addict?
- SO you just punish the whole population?

Like you have said, this is a form of big brother help.

If policies of group within a country was causing harm to another person within the country. I would pass laws to prevent these from happening again. Thats why the concept of jails and law exist. You cannot do anything you wish because thats not demoracy, that is mob rule.

Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz
Why is it k4rupt, Warset, and Chinawhite all attack everything that exposes a part of their favorite government? Which is why I would not be suprised you would be connected to that government in some way.

Jesus, i wonder what agenda you have?. Using racist Neo-conservative words like chicom

You can call me a chicom only if i can call you a fat american pig?. How about that trade off, unless you like that i think we better use proper words instead

I'm a Tibetan, What is so wrong about calling other Tibetan "My People"
You are bringing Moses in this and is that suppose to degrade me somehow? actually, i'm honored and at the same time that is funniest comment i've ever heard.

Before the china re-took tibet, it was under a fedual system of government where there were masters and slaves, quite like the times of the serfs in Russia pre-1917. You make it out as though all tibetians are religious in nature, which is not true. They were bought up in a system like the middile ages worshipping a god of sorts. If chinese funding wasn't supporting tibet, it would end up disease infested and still developing the three pointed pitch fork

You can't break down Tibet in 2 groups, master and slaves, Thats the Propaganda that your govt is pushing and you are working for that. you know it and i know it.
so 150,000+tibetans living Exile are we all Aristrocrats? thats absurd, or are we all slaves? then why would we run away? China supposed to have liberated us? right?

Tibetan people are form vast diff backgroud, Merchants, Farmers,Aristrocrats,Tibetan doctors, Theater actors, singers, artists,serfs, nomads, theifs, monks, warrior clan, fortune teller, traders, bandits, philosophers, writers, politician, ... and many more Just like anyother civilazation.

Jesus, all accounts from any tibetian should be taken like a pinch of salt. A supposedly "eye witness" from the tibetian camp claimed the soldiers fired at them for 15mins to make it sound like a masscare took place. We have a actual video which ONLY shows TWO shots being fired. How do you expect foreigners to believe in tibetian accounts

- And that is just a tip of the iceberg. Shame on you, do you have shred of compassion?

And if i went out in america and started signing praises for the governemnts distruction and shooting the police, i would also get thrown in jail. I think thats just what happened in Afganistan and Iraq.

- Who said we want destruction? you are not reading my post.

that is why USA does not treat minorities that way anymore
Why dont they get off the land and give it back to the native americans?.

-How does that justify what China is doing? Did i ever said What America did was right?

Holding a picture of the dalai lama is not a offence, holding a picture of the dalai lama and preaching about a rebellion in his name is.

-To this i will call you a Liar.

Its got nothing to do with religion, tibet has its own dalai lama and it has tibetian churches, why dont the tibetians what to pray there?. I'll tell you why, they have their own intentions and they want to go back on the treaty they signed with china in 1950 which the DALAI LAMA SIGNED HIMSELF. I dont care what you make of this, all treaties are signed under pressure and this was no exception.

-The 17 point agreement was forced by Chinese Communist Party. You know it is the truth, why would we give our Country away? China has only caused us Grief.
What you are saying does not make sense at all. Do you even think before you type these down?

Tibet was never a free country or a independent country. It has always belonged to china and the western powers acknowledged that with the nuermous treaties signed in the 19-20th centruy

-You are talking out of your ass, China pays some Western Scholars and so called Tibtologist to write an extemely biased report on Tibet and Tibetans and give talk shows in other countries, that does not count.

The Video on the BBC shows the PLA shooting at a long column of people. It shows he was firing one bullet at a time and at the lead of the group suggesting he was trying to stop them leaving.

by walking infront? btw it was a nun

[edit on 31-10-2006 by Himalayan]

What it doesn't show is what happened before the shooting which chinese soldiers have claimed they were attacked. This could suggest a reason why the chinese soldiers would be shooting at them

- By shooting at childrens, monks, and nun who are walking at a far distance, how could they possibly be threat to well armed Chinese troop?

I hope EVERY SINGLE ONE of the ATS member would read at what you are saying.

Rebelliong 1959

This rebellion was lead by the highest order of the tibetian hierarchy, because tibet had a feudal type system in place, the majority of its population were serfs which were merely slave like people who had to do what the "lamas" of tibets 200 most powerful families had told them to do.

The chinese government had begun a campaign of land reforms in the 1950's and this was seen as a great danger to the power of the lamas which ran the country. As some people would know, the communist took land away from the rich and powerful people and divided it equally among the rest of the people. This was happening all over china at this period and was aimed againest the dreaded landlords in china with the lamas being its direct counterpart in tibet.

What the lamas didn't like was this fact and order their serfs to rebel in the name of a non-violent religion. In retrospect, china was trying to emulate communism in an country stuck in the middile ages with lords and slaves. The question asks, if the situation was so bad, why did a small portion of the tibetian population leave and the "700,000 of an estimated total population of 1,250,000---were serfs" stayed in china where they were freed of slavery?. If you missed my connection, it was the upper class lama familes which fled

Originally posted by HimalayanWhat is so wrong about calling other Tibetan "My People"You are bringing Moses in this and make mock me? actually, that is funniest comment i've ever heard.

You it make if sound as if your leading them somewhere, which you are not. Not all tibetians share you views about tibet and your making a sterotypical comment and generalising about things you have said.

Notice i do not say, my chinese people think, i would say, i think the majority of chinese people think about it as. Unlike you, I am not overly nationalistic about any country and to refer to them as your people suggests you have got a big head about these matters

Unless you were the dalai lama, i would excuse you. But any other tibetian wouldn't excuse you for saying that you commanded them because your not a representative of any of them

You can't break down Tibet in 2 groups, master and slaves,

Do you know what the feudal system is?.

Here is a exact from wikipedia about the serfs in tibet

In 1953, the greater part of the rural population---some 700,000 of an estimated total population of 1,250,000---were serfs. Tied to the land, they were allotted only a small parcel to grow their own food. Serfs and other peasants generally went without schooling or medical care. They spent most of their time laboring for the monasteries and individual high-ranking lamas, or for a secular aristocracy that numbered not more than 200 families. In effect, they were owned by their masters who told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. A serf might easily be separated from his family should the owner send him to work in a distant location. Serfs could be sold by their masters, or subjected to torture and death.

Along with the upper clergy, secular leaders did well. A notable example was the commander-in-chief of the Tibetan army, who owned 4,000 square kilometers of land and 3,500 serfs. He also was a member of the Dalai Lama's lay Cabinet.

As you can read yourself, the vast majority of your population were practically slaves to the upper class lamas and their families and did whatever they were choosen to do. Tibet might have been a religious or made out to be one, but they sure had their fair amount of injustices



And "my" government?, sterotyping again?

Shame on you, do you have shred of compassion?

Compassion?

I'm not going to believe reports from tibetian nationalist which have a bone to pick with the tibetian government. The reports you have read are completely exaggerated on the same lines as the tibetian eye-witness who mysteriously saw 15minutes of shooting while actual video showed only two shots being fired.

I think you are the one brain washed to completely believe the tibetian side. If you want to know why im not brain washed in comparison to you, i will tell you that my line is not the PRC line and have have made my own opinion based on the facts that i have seen presented by each side.

Notice how the tibetians only have "indiviual statements" instead of edvidence or proof like photos or physcial dead bodies of masscares. There were some tibetian sites stating that the chinese government was forcing tibetians to do all these strange acts which is un-charateristic of chinese culture, eg making people dance on a dead person grave (which is considered a grave offence to chinese). I wonder why i dont show compassion

How does that justify what China is doing? Did i ever said What America did was right?

Firstly do you have proof of anything?. As you should be aquiated, innocent until proven guilty

Secondly, you said america was a demoracy yet it has commited all these acts. SO the question whcih comes to my mind is where should the standard be set or who is the judge to these acts?. I know for a fact that tibetians are telling chinese soldiers to get out of china so they can become a independent country or whatever. Why should china do anything when a western country is doing the same thing while it is labeled to have morals

To this i will call you a Liar.

A liar is should who has not told the truth, yet you are the one which are making statements without any edvidence. You can call me a liar all you want, without any proof means you are just ranting to anyone who will listen

The 17 point agreement is forced by CCP

Which you signed so easily in a matter of days. Now i'll ask you a question which treaty is not forced?

Which treaties have been agreed on with the majority of the repective populations involving land claims?. You make it out as if treaties western or non-western are some type of "fair" agreement which guarantees a "live happily after" situation. Not the case, you "king" the dalai lama and his offical representatives signed off your country with offcial consent. More than enough for the international community.

Or if you want to break this treaty, there are a lot more treaties that would have been broken after this one

China pays some Western Scholars and so called Tibtologist to write an extemely biased report on Tibet and Tibetans and give talk shows in other countries

Im a liar, now i talk out of my mouth?. Sounds like someone has trouble hearing things he doesn't like. Instead of actually attacking the person, why dont you try to disprove anything i have said.

I resent you comments about china paying Scholars or your so called "Tibtologist", because its the tibetians who are doing the people relations campaign. Their websites about the so called "tibetian" lifestyle or about chinese brutality are all propaganda created by tibetians. This pales in comparision china has ever done

by walking infront? btw it was a nun

Walking in front?

The story goes that the tibetians assualted the small group of chinese soldiers. The video does not show 70 people, which suggest that some people waited behind and didn't take the trek yet. They got into a fight with the chinese border guard at a checkpoint before that crossing and then tried to run away. You act as if they were walking out and didn't do anything.

If wouldn't matter if it was the pope that got shot, the group commited a crime of assualt againest paid representatives of the PRC government. In american, they would have got shot as well. I can provide video of that if you want

By shooting at childrens, monks, and nun?

Notice you left out saying men, why was that?. You wanted to increase your story?. The fact is, the last person or the first person in a 20 person column just happened to be a nun,

They shot at a column and did not aim to shoot at children, monks and a nun. They just happened to be in the column. The complete details of the story and even now are so sketchy that their purpose was travelling in that direction was unknown. Even the number being shot at was not even rightly reported. 70 people got arrested not shot at. If they were crossing a check point in palestine or iraq with western controlled guards, they most likey would have been shot on approch.

If these tibetians were prosucted so much, why didn't they leave for another part of china, where they could find some work and live unprosocuted lives in the cities of china. Instead they sit there and do nothing, expecting the chinese government to give them money or make their children go to school.

Tibetians have the highest concentrations of monks person citizen comapred to any place in the work. It being 1:35 compared to otehr countries where the ratio is sometimes 1:1000. And these consider this contailing their religion?. Like i have said before, this is more to do with religion


I hope people on ATS do read my post, thats one of the reasons i post here

[edit on 31-10-2006 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by Himalayan
My people have been and still are fleeing because we are oppressed under Chinese rule and they are getting shot at and killed because China wants to keep a lid on the Tibet issue, they don't want the world to know what they have done and still are doing in Tibet.

Why is the chinese promoting tourism in tibet if they are trying to keep a lid on their supposed crimes?

Why dont they pick up the phone and call green peace, instead of trying to assualt a border guard and cross the highest mountain range in the world?. Why dont they take a picture of this and then send it to Richard Gere?. Why dont they tell their stories to the western tourist who comes to the tibet regualry?



[edit on 31-10-2006 by chinawhite]

How, are you expecting Han chinese to respect tibetan if they always do things like boycotting Beijing Olympic? That will only harm the relationship, and bring more tragic.

and people are stupit some times... You should know that the success of Beijing Olympic will benefit china as a whole, including tibet. As the government and other bussiness firms get more money, more can be spent to help to develp the western side.

If the entire chinese society is poor, and no doubt tibetans are going to become the poorest among all, living standard will drop, and tibetans will suffer more. It will be a deadweigh lost to the entire society.

it's like saying if everybody is poor who's going to help tibet?

On the other hand, if the general living standard in china rises, than tibet will benefit too, it is benefit for the whole society.

See, you think you are helping tibet by struggling and protecting, but really you just making things worse, like I have suggested earlier.

ps. when americans call for a boycotting, I can understand that the american government is trying to contain china, so that it can maintain its possition. But for tibetans to do that, it's just stupid because that will only make tibet worse and create more hatred.
remeber now that tibet is just one part of china, any method used to contain china and prevent it from developing will directly affect the development of tibet in a harmful way. If the government has no money, and people are poor, no one is going to help tibet. Remember that.

[edit on 10/31/2006 by warset]

Rebelliong 1959
This rebellion was lead by the highest order of the tibetian hierarchy, because tibet had a feudal type system in place, the majority of its population were serfs which were merely slave like people who had to do what the "lamas" of tibets 200 most powerful families had told them to do.

-Tibet had serfs and master but as i stated earler, that is not the whole Tibet, just like any other Country, slaves and master did exist and no body can deny that but Tibetan people do not need China to butt in and so called "liberate us" that is completely ridiculous...we are more than capable of doing it ourselves

The chinese government had begun a campaign of land reforms in the 1950's and this was seen as a great danger to the power of the lamas which ran the country. As some people would know, the communist took land away from the rich and powerful people and divided it equally among the rest of the people. This was happening all over china at this period and was aimed againest the dreaded landlords in china with the lamas being its direct counterpart in tibet.

Hah, we were living fine untill China came in.
So you are saying that 150,000 Tibetans living in Exile are Aristrocrats? so, here ATS member can see how determined & misleading you/china is.

What the lamas didn't like was this fact and order their serfs to rebel in the name of a non-violent religion. In retrospect, china was trying to emulate communism in an country stuck in the middile ages with lords and slaves. The question asks, if the situation was so bad, why did a small portion of the tibetian population leave and the "700,000 of an estimated total population of 1,250,000---were serfs" stayed in china where they were freed of slavery?. If you missed my connection, it was the upper class lama familes which fled

- Freed of Slavery? then why are there so many imprisonment & torture in Drapchi prision and many other prisons? Have you ever to Tibet, My people cherishes Buddhism and support our Monasterery, We love our lamas, that is what makes us. how can you say Lamas were using us.

You it make if sound as if your leading them somewhere, which you are not. Not all tibetians share you views about tibet and your making a sterotypical comment and generalising about things you have said.

you are not making any sense.

Notice i do not say, my chinese people think, i would say, i think the majority of chinese people think about it as. Unlike you, I am not overly nationalistic about any country and to refer to them as your people suggests you have got a big head about these matters
Unless you were the dalai lama, i would excuse you. But any other tibetian wouldn't excuse you for saying that you commanded them because your not a representative of any of them

It is not just Dalai lama's job, it is my job also & i'm going to keep saying "My People".

Do you know what the feudal system is?.

no need to site, i know. But i stated earlier, Tibetan people are not just serfs and masters, We are from vast # different background. I'm gonna say it again because you are purposely avoiding it: "Tibetan people are form vast diff backgroud, Merchants, Farmers,Aristrocrats,Tibetan doctors, Theater actors, singers, artists,serfs, nomads, theifs, monks, warrior clan, fortune teller, traders, bandits, philosophers, writers, politician, ... and many more Just like anyother civilazation. "

btw:My father side is Shaungpa (farmer) & my mother side Drokpa (Nomad), Don't tell me i'm from aristrocrat background, Stop the lies

Compassion?
I'm not going to believe reports from tibetian nationalist which have bone to pick with the tibetian government. The reports you have read are compl

That is fine, do whatever, but stop misleading other people. It is a pure common sense that you don't ask an oppressor about the oppressed, you ask those who are oppressed.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by Himalayan]

Originally posted by warset
How, are you expecting Han chinese to respect tibetan if they always do things like boycotting Beijing Olympic? That will only harm the relationship, and bring more tragic.

Olympic stands for peace and harmony and mutual respect. China most definately does not meet the requirement. and allowig it means, allowing the atrocities that are still committed against human rights.

and people are stupit some times... You should know that the success of Beijing Olympic will benefit china as a whole, including tibet. As the government and other bussiness firms get more money, more can be spent to help to develp the western side.

But you see the wealth does not trikle down to Tibetans.

If the entire chinese society is poor, and no doubt tibetans are going to become the poorest among all, living standard will drop, and tibetans will suffer more. It will be a deadweigh lost to the entire society.

-Yes but China is still commiting atrocities on my people and if you are not boycotting it then you are approving the what the China had done and still are doing!!!!!

it's like saying if everybody is poor who's going to help tibet?
On the other hand, if the general living standard in china rises, than tibet will benefit too, it is benefit for the whole society.

This should benefit the whole society, but Tibetans are not included in it. Only thing Tibetan are included in is a systematically destruction of my people.

See, you think you are helping tibet by struggling and protecting, but really you just making things worse, like I have suggested earlier.

Yes i'm helping Tibet by shedding light on the the sufferings of my people. It is through aknowledgment from Chinese govt that Tibet and China as a whole will see improvements.

ps. when americans call for a boycotting, I can understand that the american government is trying to contain china, so that it can maintain its possition. But for tibetans to do that, it's just stupid because that will only make tibet worse and create more hatred.

- You realize that you are about 98% of the Tibetans stupid because this is what we a for, you ask any Tibetan how they feel about Dalai Lama, they will tell you withou hasitation that they love and respect his judgement for a true autonomous tibet where our people are not oppressed.

remeber now that tibet is just one part of china, any method used to contain china and prevent it from developing will directly affect the development of tibet in a harmful way. If the government has no money, and people are poor, no one is going to help tibet. Remember that.

- I agree but my people can't sit back and watch as our brothers and sisters and our culture is being assimilated systematically, we can't just sit on our ass and wait for conditions in Tibet to get better, we have to be active, we have spread the awareness of what is actually going so average people through out the world knows our sufferings and support or non-violent struggle.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by Himalayan]

How, are you expecting Han chinese to respect tibetan if they always do things like boycotting Beijing Olympic? That will only harm the relationship, and bring more tragic.

- I know some Han Chinese do have respect for us Tibetans because i've met many in my life.
- What about all the violent demonstration against Japan? Your people fought for their and your freedom from The Japanese and still are figting because of what Japan is doing, Rewriting history by stating that their War crimes are exaturarted and not true. Now are you and others going to listen to Japans view on what happened in NANJING?
- Your people are still fighting, does that means anything to you?

Calm down. Keep the discussion civil.