Chinese massacres Tibetan refugees

Very true warset.

As again here on ATS, ignorant people suspect me of being "brainwashed" by the CCP. lol, I went to a Catholic school in San Francisco, so.. hm... I guess brainwashed wouldn't be too far off. Anyway, no one was able to argue against my comments:



- Yea yea, just keep blabin away.....just because you read some books by PLA/CCP you think you know my people?

No, that's not my point

I was thinking why CNN, BBC, REUTORS, and other big medias are not involved in?

Supposingly they should have such shocking news annouced much quicklier and making more attentions?

Or are they just like me wondering about the credibility of the film?



But in this case, I believe the shooting to be real. but again, what's the point?
- TO KEEP MY PEOPLE IN TIBET UNDER CHINESE RULE! so they can keep lid on what is really going on in TIBET.

It must be some ignorant soldiers' own decision, or local authority's decision.
- What? this is norm to them. that is why it doesn't phase them, shooting at kids, nuns, monks, just cilivians

Tibet is an automotive region rather than a province, it's kinda like canada's 3 nothern terriories. The central government pays less attention to them due to their scarce population, and give them some advantages ex. they can get into a university with a lower average grade.
- WHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT ? at what COST? huh? just tell me that? i will tell you ! Rob my country of its culture,tradition,religion,freedom and human rights and you are saying OOHH look they get some advantages, my ass... all these means nothing to us Tibetans, our land our religion our culture are the ESSENCE OF TIBET AND ITS PEOPLE

I double chinese government would spend a lot of time planning on carrying out an assassination to some powerless monks living far away. They'd rather focus on issues like NK nuclear crisis or some global economical events, you see my point here?
- You are right, they don't give a shttttt, unless it gets media attention. then they try to ease up on their cruel practice.

and according to the news, 2 people(kids) were killed during the firing. So why would the government plan such meaningless killing?
- They didn't plan it stupid.... the killing,torturing are norm in TIBET.
the gov't basically wants to keep the lid on the TIBET's issue, so basically the local authority do what ever they can to do that... even if it means killing, torturing, prisonment..what ever...

Originally posted by warset
not really, if you go to their "asian pacific" section, they are monitoring news 24/7, and they have a separat channel too, for asia, which people can watch in Beijing.
- But you don't see the true intention if it were broadcast in Beijing, it is filtered. Hell all the chinese i've met in my life dont' know much about tibets suffering and what the govt did, they view tibet as ohh the roof of the world, lets travel to our western country...My country not yours, get it right. Tibet was never part of China and will never be part of China.
I Just think Chinese should put in effort to see why Tibet is now ruled by China and why its people are totaling diff than them. it is their duty to do so as a human being.
theres no excuse. but i blame the govt and people who run it, and the people who run the propaganda about tibet

As for such news, if CNN is not reporting it, I'd doubt its importance, it's not that because I only trust CNN, but the point is that there is absolutely meaningless for the government try to kill some powerless monk living so far away.
- You doubt its importance? OK, do you value Human lives? how about if your family member gets shot and killed and no media covers it? huh? and just imagine it in a much much MUCH bigger scale and then try to relate.

This news came early in "Taiwan News", but not many people have paid attention to. So it could be some properganda from Taiwan (they are one of the best place in making propergandas, almost on par with NK, a story in Taiwan can be told in totally different ways among the PianBlues and the PianGreens).
- I admit Taiwan supports Tibet because they are in the same boat as far as not wanting to be under Communist dictatorship rule! you get it?

I tend to believe the firing is real, but still I don't see a point in doing such stupid thing -- killing 2 kids?....
- READ MY OTHER POST!

Maybe so, but wtf? China introduces Majority han into TIBET by anymeans nesessary (not to mention by the QUINHAI railway to LHASA) and has been and even more more Tibetans are minority in our own Land.

Originally posted by warset
sterilized.... lol the last time i check, the Tibetans are not subject to "One Child Policy"...

What the fkkkkkkkkkk?

Minorities treated better than Majority Han?
- BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL #TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Often times, the punishments for their crimes are a lot less harsh than against the Han.
- This has got to be the must ridiculoous statement ever!

They are not subject to the one-child policy, they are alloewd to have more than one child
-but at what cost? loosing ones culture, religion, freedom, SOUL !

They shot at refugees !
killing 2 !
capturing many...

you want un-biased account?
- How ? HOWWWWWW are my people supposed to do that? when we have been in exile for about close to 50 yrs....
How are my people supposed to do that when our People are constantly fleeing tibet because of the oppression by Chinese?
How?
how?
How are we supposed to keep a neutral view when we are the once oppresed.?

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
This film shows Chinese soldiers killing unarmed refugees

Refugees or Refugee?

There was only one fatality

How about a un-Biased account from a tibetian monk

"I just ran to save my life by praying to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. I think the soldiers fired for 15 minutes."

www.smh.com.au...

Gez, didn't he know the actual video only showed TWO SHOTS FIRED, and a statement from the filmer only states that TWO shots were fired?

Strange, i thought holy men dont lie?

But China has killed Tibetans in similar numbers

600,000 tibetians killed?

Just like the case of shooting for 15 minutes?

persecuted traditional Tibetan religion/customs.

Customary to have slaves in tibet just like the serfs in russia, should this be protected like the American indians?. Shun to "Reservations" to "preserve" their culture?

Originally posted by warset
alright, if you go to the official sites through out most Euraisan countries, you'll find similar comments about the US, and how bad the US government is, how they tortured people, how they use terms such as "war on terror" to unite its people and wage unjust war in order to gain more resources and influence, and how they kill other people in order to gain resources to feed their own hunger and greed, and yet they disguise themselves as so called the "freedom fighters", and so on.

I'm not here to judge which side is right or wrong simply because this is something called "biased" or "double standards" or "difference in point of view" or "difference in thinking structures", it happens all the time through history. If you want to know more about this, I suggest you to take anthropology in universities, usually the first lessions are about bias among different groups of people.

[edit on 10/28/2006 by warset]

- SO WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? ITS OKAY?
YOUR COMPLAYCENCY IS VERY SADDENING

Originally posted by k4rupt

About how your minorities are treated so much better than Chinese, did you forget about the huge societal discrimination that goes on there? Or the treatment of refugees, like North Koreans? If we treated all Mexicans and Cubans like China did to their refugees would be a total outrage in the International Community.

And do you have any proof they are not? Or are you just b.s.ing to make China look bad? Like how you b.s.ed about forced sterilization? You just can't accept the fact that China isn't repeating what the Americans did to it's native inhabitants, can you?

- CHINA IS REPEATING WHAT CHINA HAS DONE IN THE PAST ! SHAME ON YOU! DO YOU HAVE SHRED OF COMPASSION IN YOU?
I've lived a in exile in India, i know of Tibetans fleeing Tibet, it is still happening, WHY? because they are treated like a second class citizen!
that is why!

Or the religious repression in Tibet and the Muslims in Xinjiang? Well that is okay, how about the Chinese just send a bunch of Han Chinese to live there and all the complaining will end eventually when the original inhabitants are breeded out. I wonder what the Russians will do when China starts doing that in Moscow once Siberia is Han Chinese?

Really? if it was the sole purpose of the central gov't to wipe out the original inhabitants, then why are minorities NOT subject to the one-child policy? HM? Explain that..
- You are trully a Chinese Communist gov't agent, aren't you ?
You have already introduced Majority hans in tibet, Now my people are minority, treated extremely poorly, often looked down upon

There are many sources that says Tibetan women were forced sterilized (many of them are ran by pro-Tibet people which you just WOULD NOT accept)....yet of course you post government censored news.

Like what sources? Freetibet.org? Lol, or am I supposed to take your word for it again, retinoid. You're funny, you are probably one of the most ignorant-of-the-PRC people here on ATS, yet you talk and bash the PRC like you're some sort of expert.
- LIKE WHAT SOURCES? HUMAN RIGHT GROUPS ! such as Human Right Watch

Tibetans AREN'T SUBJECT to the One-Child policy, why the hell would there be forced sterilizations? God, at least get some of the facts straight before you post B.S.... please? It'd make it a ibt harder for me to debate against you. Oh, and a lesson on debating - don't make up lies, spread ignorant rumors that have no fact to it at all, and especially rumors that can be easily proven as lies... thanks.

Over and over again, I've debunked MANY of your "facts" in previous threads, yet you keep coming and bashing the PRC and me. We aren't supporters of every action the PRC gov't makes, BUT WE DO fight against the constant flow of propoganda for the ignroant about the PRC that you love to spread with your half truths and often b.s.

- YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT SPREAD YOU EVIL PROPAGANDA! thats what you have done!
you should give more credit to people than you already are...

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
This is really silly how the 3 Chinese supporters come on threads exposing what China does and defends all of it.

Exposing?

There is no exposing, there is only one person claiming a lot of things from random TI websites. There is a difference between quoting a annoynous site on the internet and claiming you exposed something and actually exposing REAL news with ACTUAL edvidence

- I'M HERE ! you are simply trying to hinder my peoples struggle for freedom. you are hoping the foreigners would stop supporting us by bringing up false information..

The government's human rights record in Tibetan areas of China remained poor, and the level of repression of religious freedom remained high. The government continued to view the Dalai Lama with suspicion and tended to associate Tibetan Buddhist religious activity with separatist sympathies.

The second half answered the first half. Considering the fact that there was a open rebellion because of religion, the chiense authorities have every right to clamp down on religion if its the cause of trouble. Isn't that what other countries have done?

- REBELLION! because we are oppresed under your Chinese govt rule, my people are getting imprisoned, killed, tortured ...you name it .. so we suppose to stay quite?

Authorities continued to commit serious human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, house arrest and other nonjudicial surveillance of dissidents, detention without public trial, repression of religious freedom, and arbitrary restrictions on free movement.

Get use to it.

-THERE IT IS, THE TRUE INTENTION.

Many countries have laws like that in place. Im not going to name any country but it starts with U and ends with A. Its own citizens and citizens it had kidnapped under a banner of terrorist.
-YOUR COMPLANCY MAKES ME SAD.

Imagine sitting in your house and troops take you away and torture you then they ship you off to cuba for more questioning and torturing, just because you live in a country which was labeled a torrorist nation
- YES ! YES ! IMAGINE THAT ! this is how Chinese do to my people, even now, simply for having Dalai Lama picture.

Well that is okay, how about the Chinese just send a bunch of Han Chinese to live there and all the complaining will end eventually when the original inhabitants are breeded out.

Sounds like the history of the United states

-AND YOU ARE DOING WHAT HERE? Just saying USA did this USA did that., i admit that was horrible and that is why USA does not treat minorities that way anymore... it is a democratic government.

-WHERE DO YOU GETOFF COMPARING USA W/ CHINA! in america People actually have freedom to practice their religion and not get imprisoned/tortured or killed for holding picture of Dalai Lama

Originally posted by k4rupt

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

And you will find that most Americans are honest and think the SAME THING. lol. Yet it seems Chinese people are not if you look at just this board. But I have about 3 Chinese friends who moved to the US for more rights and better education who pretty much would agree on many of the things said about the Chinese government.

Again that is your argument? Your "three Chinese friends." We post facts and all you come up with is mor b.s. Retinoid, all your claims against the PRC have been debunked, it shows how far you will go to attack China - to the point of making up lies, quoting biased and untrue sources, and forcing us to "believe" in what you say.

Notice how, isntead of finding a rebuttal against ALL the arguments me and Chinawhite made (arguments that proves he's full of it), he AGAIN IGNORES IT and goes off bashing China, with his argument source being his "three friends."

- HE IS NOT BULLSHTTTIN ! THIS IS TRUE ! ADMIT IT!
why do you have to support a govt that oppresses its people? i've Chinese friends and they sure have their world views correct unlike you guys who support the Chinese govt simply because YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! or don't want to listen to the truth for that matter......
SHAME ON YOU.





[edit on 28-10-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by iori_komei
No, no government has the right to take away religious freedoms
just because it can lead to violence

Damn,

We should have told that to the afgans and iraqis, what were we thinking. Forcing them to stop preaching about the destruction of israel and America, what were we thinking

I'll point out that we don't restrict freedom of religion/belief just because it
could lead to violence

How about if scientology was selling drugs to teenagers or giving them guns to shot government soldiers, wouldn't you have a problem on your hands

Communist china now is different from communist china of old, i have to get your defination of "restrict". I'm not trying to kid anybody here, in china there is restrictions and its not a demoracy, but thats how society has been run for the last 2000 years bar the 80s and 90s

---- YOU ARE SAYING BUDDHISM GIVES GUNS TO PEOPLE?
---- WELL THEY DID, BACK IN 1959 MONKS TOOKUP ARMS, why you say? BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN YOU GUYS CAME IN KILLING MY PEOPLE, INVADING MY COUNTRY

Originally posted by iori_komei
I personally would'nt have a problem with that, as I believe that
if a person wants to do drugs, that's there perogative.

How about abusive parents?. What happens if they turn into serial killers or crack addicts behind the wheel when they go high or they kill someone close do you. Is the response "Now its personal?"

My definition of restriction would be disallowing them.

There is religious worship in china, but its state controlled to keep stupid religion out. Maybe its a cultural thing, but the "strange" is frowned upon in china

sbusive parents? serial killer ? crack addict?
- SO you just punish the whole population? this is alsor a form of an oppression if you don't see it is because you are not the oppressed. Just stop for a second to look at this situation from a big big brother type of point view.
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- In any case, i want you and your comrade to reply to all previous post. Let ATS see how your ignorant mindset causes suffering on my people.
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by iori_komei
I personally would'nt have a problem with that, as I believe that
if a person wants to do drugs, that's there perogative.

How about abusive parents?. What happens if they turn into serial killers or crack addicts behind the wheel when they go high or they kill someone close do you. Is the response "Now its personal?"

My definition of restriction would be disallowing them.

There is religious worship in china, but its state controlled to keep stupid religion out. Maybe its a cultural thing, but the "strange" is frowned upon in china

Himalayan it is very sad what happened to Tibet and is still happening. Especially how China is sending huge numbers of Han Chinese to Tibet now where Tibetans are the minority. It is even sadder that there are people who are horribly brainwashed that their dignity and human compassion is erradicated for certain types of people.

Like I said, I am waiting for China to send people to Moscow like they are doing to Siberia and see how the Russians like it!

Retinoid, I love how you ignore the arguments me and Chinawhite has made against your B.S. and you go on spewing more.

Great way to debate!

Himalayan it is very sad what happened to Tibet and is still happening. Especially how China is sending huge numbers of Han Chinese to Tibet now where Tibetans are the minority.

Okay? Is that a crime? Is that illegal for a different ethnicity to migrate to a region? Hm..., last I checked, ALL OF America was inhabitated by the Native Americans, where did they all go? Little reservations? Talk about hypocrisy...

It is even sadder that there are people who are horribly brainwashed that their dignity and human compassion is erradicated for certain types of people.

What are you talking about? Uttering more B.S.?

Seriously though, retinoid, go back to the few posts me and Chinawhite made. Why'd you ignore the arguments we made? Can't find a rebuttal? Lol... pathetic, keep ignoring our arguments and bashing the PRC...

That is just pathetic.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by k4rupt


That is just pathetic.

Not really considering I sent links to the US state department on what happens in Tibet and I said there are many links found on google on what happens (even history of forced sterilizations) but they aren't reported on anything that you guys would "accept" so I don't even need to waste my time linking them.

That is what is pathetic.

Now go complain about how the Japanese were so bad to you in World War 2 while defending what China has done in Tibet and is doing there.

I may be wrong, but doesn't the person who falls with the first shot gets up and starts running when the video reaches 00:35?

The article is also a little different from the video in some cases.

The article says:

A climbing guide from the US told the mountaineering website Explorers Web on condition of anonymity that "Without warning, shots rang out.”
“Over, and over and over," he continued. "The line of people started to run uphill - they were at 19,000ft. Two people were down, and they weren't getting up."

The only person who is seen running is the first on the line, the other people keep the pace, and (unless I am mistaken) the first on the line was the first to went down, so he/she did get up.

The article also says:

However, Matei's video clearly showed that the Tibetans were unarmed and had their backs to the soldiers. There was no resistance, and Kelsang, the teenage nun, was apparently shot in the back.

In the video, the soldier who is seen shooting (and we only see one shot being fired) is not shooting from behind the Tibetans.

I don't know if this is the original video, after all, anyone can post anything on YouTube.

As for the lack of interest from the TV networks, the article says:

The incident was also taped by Segiu Matei, a Romanian cameraman with Pro TV. The station, along with Euronews and CNN, aired the tape over the weekend.

I usually see Euronews, but not on weekends, so I do not know if the video was really aired.

Just one more thing, why do we only have one name, the name of the 17 year old nun? Was she shot because she was a nun? And the other people who were shot, could it be they were shot not because they were going to Nepal or was there any other reason?

K4RUPT: Read all the responses to you and your butt buddies that i wrote last night...its on Pg 2 and 3

Talk to me ! Lets debate if thats what you want. YOUR PATHETIC ATTEMPT TO HINDER MY PEOPLES STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM WILL NEVER SUCCEED ! FOR EACH ONE YOU OUT THERE TRYING TO MISLEAD THE WORLD, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOMEONE LIKE TO BRING THIS TO LIGHT !

C'MON TALK TO ME!

LETS SEE HOW ALL THE BOOKS AND ARTICLES YOU READ ABOUT MY PEOPLE, MY LAND, MY CULTURE, MY RELIGION....DIFFERS FROM WHAT MY PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIVE.....OR LIVED FOR THAT MATTER.

- I DARE YOU COWARD, PURPOSELY HIDING BEHIND THE PROPAGANDA THAT CHINESE GOVT HAS PUT FOURTH.... SHAME ON YOU.

Originally posted by k4rupt
Retinoid, I love how you ignore the arguments me and Chinawhite has made against your B.S. and you go on spewing more.

Great way to debate!

Himalayan it is very sad what happened to Tibet and is still happening. Especially how China is sending huge numbers of Han Chinese to Tibet now where Tibetans are the minority.

Okay? Is that a crime? Is that illegal for a different ethnicity to migrate to a region? Hm..., last I checked, ALL OF America was inhabitated by the Native Americans, where did they all go? Little reservations? Talk about hypocrisy...

It is even sadder that there are people who are horribly brainwashed that their dignity and human compassion is erradicated for certain types of people.

What are you talking about? Uttering more B.S.?

Seriously though, retinoid, go back to the few posts me and Chinawhite made. Why'd you ignore the arguments we made? Can't find a rebuttal? Lol... pathetic, keep ignoring our arguments and bashing the PRC...

That is just pathetic.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by k4rupt]

ArMaP: READ THIS + all my other responses that i posted last night to these people who trully seems to lack compassion ->Page 2 and 3
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Video footage of Tibetans who were crossing into Nepal being shot by Chinese
border police on September 30 refutes official claims that the troops fired
"in self-defence".
The video footage, taken by a Romanian cameraman who was at advance base
camp on Mount Cho Oyo at the time, depicts a line of Tibetans walking uphill
through the snow on the Nangpa Pass when a shot is heard and one of the
figures falls to the ground. The video clearly depicts that the Tibetans had
their backs to the soldiers, were unarmed, and offered no resistance. The
nun who died, Kelsang Namtso, appears to have been shot in the back.
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www.protv.ro...
(video)
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www.savetibet.org... 1
www.savetibet.org... 2
www.savetibet.org... 3

--------------------------------
& Here is the actual interview with the climber !

www.mounteverest.net... (interview)
=====================================================
* The world need to see this ! and realize that this is JUST THE TIP OF A ICEBERG !


[edit on 29-10-2006 by Himalayan]

[edit on 29-10-2006 by Himalayan]

OK, so the video is the real one, but I still see some differences between the video and the article, so now that I know that video is really the eyewitness' video, I will believe it more than the article, at least when they both talk about the same thing.

I had some problem reading your replies to the other posters because you didn't separated the original post from your answers, so, I confess, I didn't read them all.

PS: see your U2Us, please.