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Chinese massacres Tibetan refugees

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posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by warset
No, that's not my point

I was thinking why CNN, BBC, REUTORS, and other big medias are not involved in?


I don't know warset. They are usually late starters on such things unless it involves Americans or Europeans in some way, shape or form.




posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 10:23 PM
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not really, if you go to their "asian pacific" section, they are monitoring news 24/7, and they have a separat channel too, for asia, which people can watch in Beijing.

As for such news, if CNN is not reporting it, I'd doubt its importance, it's not that because I only trust CNN, but the point is that there is absolutely meaningless for the government try to kill some powerless monk living so far away.

This news came early in "Taiwan News", but not many people have paid attention to. So it could be some properganda from Taiwan (they are one of the best place in making propergandas, almost on par with NK, a story in Taiwan can be told in totally different ways among the PianBlues and the PianGreens).

I tend to believe the firing is real, but still I don't see a point in doing such stupid thing -- killing 2 kids?....

[edit on 10/26/2006 by warset]



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by warset


I tend to believe the firing is real, but still I don't see a point in doing such stupid thing -- killing 2 kids?....


This thread is about how China persecutes Tibetans. How Tibet is no longer Tibet. And how China has killed, forced sterilized, etc. Tibetans. This story is a sprinkle on the cake


[edit on 26-10-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 02:38 PM
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sterilized.... lol the last time i check, the Tibetans are not subject to "One Child Policy"...



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 06:10 PM
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Lol... warset careful there... dont' wanna give em anti-China activists a heartattack.

They love to believe that China is persecuting the minorities, if you burst that bubble, they'd have to attack something else about China.

This is the type of ignroance I'm talking about that is just SO rampant here at ATS. Minorities in China are treated BETTER than the majority Han. They are not subject to the one-child policy, they are alloewd to have more than one child and often times, the punishments for their crimes are a lot less harsh than against the Han.




[edit on 27-10-2006 by k4rupt]



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
This film shows Chinese soldiers killing unarmed refugees


Refugees or Refugee?

There was only one fatality

How about a un-Biased account from a tibetian monk


"I just ran to save my life by praying to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. I think the soldiers fired for 15 minutes."

www.smh.com.au...

Gez, didn't he know the actual video only showed TWO SHOTS FIRED, and a statement from the filmer only states that TWO shots were fired?

Strange, i thought holy men dont lie?


But China has killed Tibetans in similar numbers


600,000 tibetians killed?

Just like the case of shooting for 15 minutes?


persecuted traditional Tibetan religion/customs.


Customary to have slaves in tibet just like the serfs in russia, should this be protected like the American indians?. Shun to "Reservations" to "preserve" their culture?



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 11:38 AM
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This is really silly how the 3 Chinese supporters come on threads exposing what China does and defends all of it. Well let's just examine the things said.

First this comes from the: www.state.gov...

[I don't know if you think the United States State Department is a Flun Gong organization or not but I wouldn't be surprised if you said something like that]


The government's human rights record in Tibetan areas of China remained poor, and the level of repression of religious freedom remained high. The government continued to view the Dalai Lama with suspicion and tended to associate Tibetan Buddhist religious activity with separatist sympathies.

Authorities continued to commit serious human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, house arrest and other nonjudicial surveillance of dissidents, detention without public trial, repression of religious freedom, and arbitrary restrictions on free movement.


About how your minorities are treated so much better than Chinese, did you forget about the huge societal discrimination that goes on there? Or the treatment of refugees, like North Koreans? If we treated all Mexicans and Cubans like China did to their refugees would be a total outrage in the International Community.

Or the religious repression in Tibet and the Muslims in Xinjiang? Well that is okay, how about the Chinese just send a bunch of Han Chinese to live there and all the complaining will end eventually when the original inhabitants are breeded out. I wonder what the Russians will do when China starts doing that in Moscow once Siberia is Han Chinese?

There are many sources that says Tibetan women were forced sterilized (many of them are ran by pro-Tibet people which you just WOULD NOT accept)....yet of course you post government censored news.





China prohibits domestic human rights groups and bars entry to international human rights groups. Chinese citizens who contact international rights groups risk imprisonment.

hrw.org...

^ Hmmm, I wonder why they would do that. Probably for national security.


And the Olympics are being held in China in 2008, well I guess it is time for the government to "sweep everything under the rug" if you know what I mean. So none of the "liars" spread "disinformation".



tata



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 01:55 PM
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alright, if you go to the official sites through out most Euraisan countries, you'll find similar comments about the US, and how bad the US government is, how they tortured people, how they use terms such as "war on terror" to unite its people and wage unjust war in order to gain more resources and influence, and how they kill other people in order to gain resources to feed their own hunger and greed, and yet they disguise themselves as so called the "freedom fighters", and so on.

I'm not here to judge which side is right or wrong simply because this is something called "biased" or "double standards" or "difference in point of view" or "difference in thinking structures", it happens all the time through history. If you want to know more about this, I suggest you to take anthropology in universities, usually the first lessions are about bias among different groups of people.

[edit on 10/28/2006 by warset]



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 05:25 PM
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About how your minorities are treated so much better than Chinese, did you forget about the huge societal discrimination that goes on there? Or the treatment of refugees, like North Koreans? If we treated all Mexicans and Cubans like China did to their refugees would be a total outrage in the International Community.


And do you have any proof they are not? Or are you just b.s.ing to make China look bad? Like how you b.s.ed about forced sterilization? You just can't accept the fact that China isn't repeating what the Americans did to it's native inhabitants, can you?


Or the religious repression in Tibet and the Muslims in Xinjiang? Well that is okay, how about the Chinese just send a bunch of Han Chinese to live there and all the complaining will end eventually when the original inhabitants are breeded out. I wonder what the Russians will do when China starts doing that in Moscow once Siberia is Han Chinese?


Really? if it was the sole purpose of the central gov't to wipe out the original inhabitants, then why are minorities NOT subject to the one-child policy? HM? Explain that..


There are many sources that says Tibetan women were forced sterilized (many of them are ran by pro-Tibet people which you just WOULD NOT accept)....yet of course you post government censored news.


Like what sources? Freetibet.org? Lol, or am I supposed to take your word for it again, retinoid. You're funny, you are probably one of the most ignorant-of-the-PRC people here on ATS, yet you talk and bash the PRC like you're some sort of expert.

Tibetans AREN'T SUBJECT to the One-Child policy, why the hell would there be forced sterilizations? God, at least get some of the facts straight before you post B.S.... please? It'd make it a ibt harder for me to debate against you. Oh, and a lesson on debating - don't make up lies, spread ignorant rumors that have no fact to it at all, and especially rumors that can be easily proven as lies... thanks.

Over and over again, I've debunked MANY of your "facts" in previous threads, yet you keep coming and bashing the PRC and me. We aren't supporters of every action the PRC gov't makes, BUT WE DO fight against the constant flow of propoganda for the ignroant about the PRC that you love to spread with your half truths and often b.s.

Good day mate.





[edit on 28-10-2006 by k4rupt]



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
This is really silly how the 3 Chinese supporters come on threads exposing what China does and defends all of it.


Exposing?

There is no exposing, there is only one person claiming a lot of things from random TI websites. There is a difference between quoting a annoynous site on the internet and claiming you exposed something and actually exposing REAL news with ACTUAL edvidence


The government's human rights record in Tibetan areas of China remained poor, and the level of repression of religious freedom remained high. The government continued to view the Dalai Lama with suspicion and tended to associate Tibetan Buddhist religious activity with separatist sympathies.


The second half answered the first half. Considering the fact that there was a open rebellion because of religion, the chiense authorities have every right to clamp down on religion if its the cause of trouble. Isn't that what other countries have done?



Authorities continued to commit serious human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, house arrest and other nonjudicial surveillance of dissidents, detention without public trial, repression of religious freedom, and arbitrary restrictions on free movement.


Get use to it.

Many countries have laws like that in place. Im not going to name any country but it starts with U and ends with A. Its own citizens and citizens it had kidnapped under a banner of terrorist.

Imagine sitting in your house and troops take you away and torture you then they ship you off to cuba for more questioning and torturing, just because you live in a country which was labeled a torrorist nation



Well that is okay, how about the Chinese just send a bunch of Han Chinese to live there and all the complaining will end eventually when the original inhabitants are breeded out.



Sounds like the history of the United states




[edit on 28-10-2006 by chinawhite]



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by warset
alright, if you go to the official sites through out most Euraisan countries, you'll find similar comments about the US, and how bad the US government is, how they tortured people, how they use terms such as "war on terror" to unite its people and wage unjust war in order to gain more resources and influence, and how they kill other people in order to gain resources to feed their own hunger and greed, and yet they disguise themselves as so called the "freedom fighters", and so on.


And you will find that most Americans are honest and think the SAME THING. lol. Yet it seems Chinese people are not if you look at just this board. But I have about 3 Chinese friends who moved to the US for more rights and better education who pretty much would agree on many of the things said about the Chinese government.



posted on Oct, 28 2006 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

And you will find that most Americans are honest and think the SAME THING. lol. Yet it seems Chinese people are not if you look at just this board. But I have about 3 Chinese friends who moved to the US for more rights and better education who pretty much would agree on many of the things said about the Chinese government.


Again that is your argument? Your "three Chinese friends." We post facts and all you come up with is mor b.s. Retinoid, all your claims against the PRC have been debunked, it shows how far you will go to attack China - to the point of making up lies, quoting biased and untrue sources, and forcing us to "believe" in what you say.

Notice how, isntead of finding a rebuttal against ALL the arguments me and Chinawhite made (arguments that proves he's full of it), he AGAIN IGNORES IT and goes off bashing China, with his argument source being his "three friends."







[edit on 28-10-2006 by k4rupt]



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 12:18 AM
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Hmm, well this is one more thing for me to hate China over.
Assuming it's true, but even if it was'nt, I still hate China.


I'd really like to know why no organization ever does anything
about this,oh yeah, that's right, there all spinelss bleeding heart
idiots who are'nt willing to kill.

NOTE:
I don't mean liberals, I just mean people who are to sympathetic
for there own good who would'nt kill to save their own life.

[edit on 10/29/2006 by iori_komei]

[edit on 10/29/2006 by iori_komei]



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by iori_komei
I'd really like to know why no organization ever does anything
about this


Let me see,


Fifth girl dies after Amish school shooting


Why isn't there a ban on firearms in america?


Since 1960, more than a million Americans have died in firearm suicides, homicides, and unintentional injuries. In 2003 alone, 30,136 Americans died by gunfire: 16,907 in firearm suicides, 11,920 in firearm homicides, 730 in unintentional shootings, and 232 in firearm deaths of unknown intent, according to the National Center for Health Statistics. Nearly three times that number are treated in emergency rooms each year for nonfatal firearm injuries.



What should we categorise this as? government neglect?.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 01:01 AM
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Not the same thing.


The Chinese government disallows many freedoms.
The Constitution of the United States allows for the ownership
of guns so as the American government does'nt become
something like the Chinese government, or worse.


Also,s omething you said in an earlier post;
No, no government has the right to take away religious freedoms
just because it can lead to violence, in fact governments don't
have rights, the individual citizens have rights.

And, as much as I may totally hate my own government, I'll point
out that we don't restrict freedom of religion/belief just because it
could lead to violence, hell we don't even restrict it when it's clearly
not a religion, but a giant con.
**cough*cough*Scientology*cough*cough**



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by iori_komei
No, no government has the right to take away religious freedoms
just because it can lead to violence


Damn,

We should have told that to the afgans and iraqis, what were we thinking. Forcing them to stop preaching about the destruction of israel and America, what were we thinking


I'll point out that we don't restrict freedom of religion/belief just because it
could lead to violence



How about if scientology was selling drugs to teenagers or giving them guns to shot government soldiers, wouldn't you have a problem on your hands

Communist china now is different from communist china of old, i have to get your defination of "restrict". I'm not trying to kid anybody here, in china there is restrictions and its not a demoracy, but thats how society has been run for the last 2000 years bar the 80s and 90s



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Damn,

We should have told that to the afgans and iraqis, what were we thinking. Forcing them to stop preaching about the destruction of israel and America, what were we thinking


Fair point I suppose, but there's a difference between saying you
want it, and actually having the weapons to successfully do it,
and subsequently do it.




How about if scientology was selling drugs to teenagers or giving them guns to shot government soldiers, wouldn't you have a problem on your hands

I personally would'nt have a problem with that, as I believe that
if a person wants to do drugs, that's there perogative.

As for selling guns, well the day that our cities are actively patroled
by soldiers, will be the day we should be destroying the military/
government.




Communist china now is different from communist china of old, i have to get your defination of "restrict". I'm not trying to kid anybody here, in china there is restrictions and its not a demoracy, but thats how society has been run for the last 2000 years bar the 80s and 90s.

I know it's different now from how it was 50 years ago, big difference
being capitalism introduced.

My definition of restriction would be disallowing them.



[edit on 10/29/2006 by iori_komei]



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 01:00 AM
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Cho Oy pass is a common escape route for fleeing Tibetans. If this incident is real, why have similiar incidents not happened in the past, and similarly, will something alike happen in the future? Also, what prompted this particular guard to open fire (assuming that this is indeed a true story)
- This has been happening since the invasion in early 50s.
- My parents fled Tibet when they were 6 or 7 and soon were orphaned.
- This particular incident happened to be caught on video.
- What promted guards to shoot you say? well, frankly speaking, because China wants to keep Tibetans from telling the world of what they are faced w/ in their on country.
* The Type 81 Assault Rifle rifles which are utilized by the PAP are automatic weapons with a maximum effective range of 500 metres and with only a moderate accuracy. Then why do we hear one clean shot, then see a Tibetan fall at the same time, then another clean shot, then another Tibetan falling, so on?
- What are you talking about? who the hell you think those people were shooting at fleeing refugee? they even stop by the climbers camp to gather more info. regardless Do you have shred of compassion in you my fellow chinese brother?
* Even if the PAP was using a sniper-rifle (I'd assume that the PAP would use something similar to a Dragunov), why is the gunshot and the fall at the same time? The Dragunov bullet travels at 830 m/s, while sound travels at 340 m/s (but would have been slightly slower in the cold temperature). The climbers said that they were one kilometer away, which means that there was approximately a three-second delay before they heard the actual gunshot.
- The body drops few milliseconds later. besides what are you exactly trying to do here? what is up with your rejection of the truth that is layed infront of you. If the oppression is not real like this, then why the fk would there be 150,000 + refugee Tibetans living in exile? you think we want to leave our country?
* The previous fact means that in order for the Tibetans to have been seen falling at the same time as the gunshot, the PAP was 2.49 kilometers away from the Europeans in any direction, which also means that the nearest the PAP could have been was 1.49 kilometers, and this is assuming that the PAP could shoot through the mountain!
- Wtf?, people pls ignore this person, i don't know what his agenda is. I'm telling you this from my experience as a Tibetan refugee born in exile in India, now living in U.S.



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 01:05 AM
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* Why did the rest of the refugees seem to be unaffected by their fallen comrades? It is not a normal reaction when you see someone shot down and you continue walking.
- What the hell you expect? you are under gun shots and you have been travelling for many days for this. It is not normal but this is the reality of the level of cruelty my people are faced.
Oh, and by the way, let's not forget to thank the thousands of Chinese soldiers who died building a railroad to Tibet, modernizing the region, giving the people running water and electricity.
- Wtf? again... who wanted the Bombardier railroad? who? the Chinese not my people, Who benefits most from it? Chinese. China killed 1.2 million Tibetans (estimated by Tibetan Exile govt in India) and you are saying that now look "china has built these railroads...wow" WTF? what is all this? when your people are killed, culture is being assimilated into Chinese culture systamatically by transporting hundreds of thousands of Chinese into Tibet. huh? Shame on you for even implying that. You think China did favor on us Tibetans? We are more than capable of improving our on country, just look at how organised and succesfull our govt has been in exile. do you even know the polital agenda behind the railroad? to populate it w/ Majority Han Chinese

Hm... Don't I remember an article in which the Dalai Lama stated that Tibet "needed" China. As well, he thanked China for modernizing Tibet.
- May be, but again, him and the Tibetan people have never ever asked for it. ok, lets imagine for a min, somebody kills your family and tells you later that i did this for your own good, look at all the improvements i've done toyour house...

Off topic, but something the ignorant west should know about.
-Igonorant? YOU are the ignorant! how dare you mislead people.

DON'T TELL ME TO NOT GET EMOTIONAL, THIS IS EMOTIONAL FOR ME BECAUSE I'M A TIBETAN.
[/quo



posted on Oct, 29 2006 @ 01:22 AM
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why can't I find this news on the Falungong media and CNN? Such type of sensitive news would be reported by those two media soon as they came out, and cause relatively great attentions, but why don't i see it being reported on other major medias?
- So what? Major news media didn't cover it, so what? You need to see that on major news media to believe in it?

I double the reliablilty of the news, as most of the "Tibet and Falungong stories" turns out to be made up after the US invenstigations.
- WTF are you talking about? i'm a tibetan and this is what has been and still is happening in my homeland. Most of the heart breaking news are from people who actually suffered in Tibet who then lived and fled to india to talk about it.

The first ones in the 1940's are REAL, but those tibet stories came out later on tend to be made up.
- Shame on you. Why would we make up stories? our country was invaded by brute force killing god knows how many of my people... reason why my both of grandparents from mom and dad side were killed.

but it's kinda amazing if china is still doing it today. I really don't see the point of doing it. China is becomming one of the strongest nation on the planet with most of its ppl loving their nation, they don't lack food, money, or even patriotism, so what's the point of shooting some harmless tibetans?
-Because if they let my people go, they'll tell of the sufferings they had to endure under Chinese rule. This is the reality, we get many refugees in daramsala (tibetan exile govt in India) and they tell of all these horrible atrocities committed on Tibetans. Just think about, what the hell my people keep fleeing when they know of the danger of fleeing. there are about 150,000 + Tibetans living in exile as of now.

(it's different from USSR because most chinese ppl today actually enjoy their lives and very patriotic, this is mainly due to their success in economy, where as the old communist states were often too poor, and ppl hated their way of life, so the government has to use propergandas to avoid protest. that's why i tend to not believe some western's saying about china's "brain washing", I rather think those sayings are actually propergandas used to "contain" china's economy by making people boycotting what ever china is doing.)
- What? Yes it is different now, Because time has changed, the world now has greater access that is why China is being carefull but still my people are still suffering under Communist rule. You are really an ignorant person, blind to the truth. Have you ever lived in a Tibetan community in exile? i was fckin born there, lived there for 14 yrs... i know from my own experience.

I suppose this type of incident doesn't happen too often, this one must be one of the biggest incident happened in many years. I just don't get what's the point of firing? especially when ppl are trying to get OUT of the country?
- Well let me tell you this, this just happened to be caught on Video. that is the only difference. you still don' t get it?

I don't see Mexican government shoot their ppl; only the US would worry in such case. So isn't that Nepeal supposed to be the one who's worrying?
- Yea duh ! because they are mexican. My people are getting shot because they are Tibetan not Chinese. also Chinese govt practices dictatorship, you get it now?

that's pretty stupid, must be the local military officers' decision rather that the central government's decision, since the chinese central government actually has less influence in such region compares those tibet local officials, who are local ppl, often not as well educated and intellegent, and still believes in the old and outdated communism philosophy, which, for many years, has not been used in modern areas.
- what an excuse. great jop. clap clap, ATS people clap for this person.
but of course, my above opinion is base on the assumption of the incident to be real.
- Yes sure is.




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