What I don't understand is why are people defending what China did by mentioning that they developed the country? Like Tibet absolutely could not have done it alone...

I wonder what they would have said if some country invaded China during Mao's rule and justified it saying it was a corrupt evil place...They probably would be condemning the country

Originally posted by sbob


I know my country does some bad things and I get disgusted at that.

But to deny and spin is a sad lacking of thinking, and diminshes future posts.

People were shot of the Tibetan border and china did try to cover it up.

Exactly! I condemn every single country for the bad it does (especially when the US does bad things). Yet I don't understand why k4rupt and chinawhite will sit there and defend anything China does. It is really beyond me...

When have I defended it?

I'm defending the SPIN you put on it, I'm not defending the actions of the story... It's really as simple as that.

What I don't understand is why are people defending what China did by mentioning that they developed the country? Like Tibet absolutely could not have done it alone...

LOL, you honestly think Tibet could have done it alone? LIke how? The slaves uprising against the corrupt aristocrats who held the coutnry down just like how Europe was during the Dark Ages? *SARCASM* How about Bangladesh and Africa? Like they couldn't have done it alone...

Don't be so naive to think that ALL Undeveloped Nations can suddenly boom and develop themselves out of nowhere... especially in a society like Tibet. That's not even ignorance, that's stupidity.

I wonder what they would have said if some country invaded China during Mao's rule and justified it saying it was a corrupt evil place...They probably would be condemning the country

You're missing out the whole point... you talk of Tibet as if it was a BETTER palce to live BEFORE the PRC... which it obviously wasn't and has been shown already...


[edit on 7-11-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by k4rupt


You're missing out the whole point... you talk of Tibet as if it was a BETTER palce to live BEFORE the PRC... which it obviously wasn't and has been shown already...

I never said that, I said China has committed horrible acts towards Tibet and its people. Which it has. Yet you are still somehow making it look alright.

you are saying as if chinese government is torturing its ppl are making destroying the country?

then why are most chinese ppl so patriotic today?

ask yourself this question, it's as simple as that.

I know a lot of american living chinese hated china because they are either came to the US during the 1940's - 1980's or they are involved in anti-china movements.

but the chinese government today is nothing like the old soviet regime, although anti-china ppl claim that the chinese government made no improvment over the last 20 years, indeed it made huge improvments, and is still improving and reforming today, newer improved version of laws and regulations comes out every few months. It's improving almost as fast as the rate of the economic growth or military sophistications.

and as for tibet, I'd predict it would be something like mongolia's living standard if Dalai Lama's regime is in charge of the place. The standard of living will definitly be lower, although you may argue that the living quality for tibetans might be slightly higher, on the otherhand.

Warset, the standard of living would not even BE comparable.

Tibet would still be under a Feudal Society similar to Europe's Dark Ages, with slaves who were exploited by the corrupt aristoratic rulers... There would be barely any electricity, running water, fresh food or even education. God, even the thought of bodily mutilation as punishment because slaves were so hungry they had to steal, is despicable.

Sigh, Westerners try to portray AND BELIEVE that Tibet before China was like heaven... When will their hate for the PRC stop them from being blinded by ignorant propaganda?

And Retinoid... I'm not DEFENDING the actions of those soldiers nor am I denying some of the actions the PRC has committed to Tibet. HOWEVER, I'm just trying to counter the EXTREMELY widespread ignroance about Tibet AND the PRC - something that you are blindly fueling with your biased accounts. All your posts and threads suggest that China has DONE NOTHING for Tibet - which is BLATANTLY wrong and IGNORANT. I'm showing BOTh sides of the story, not just one. Something to think about while you deny ignorance.




[edit on 7-11-2006 by k4rupt]

K4rupt great...so what is the point of posting how "lucky" Tibet was? This whole thread is about how Chinese soldiers shot fleeing refugees. Couldn't you have made your own thread? Why did you have to steal mine?

First of all they are not Tibetan ‘refugees’, just Tibetans got killed in their own land. Or just you meant to say they are already living as refugees in their own land.

So what, huge number of them got killed when their lands were first invaded by Chinese army. Then Mao forced them to produce wheat for the Chinese instead of barley, Tibetan’s traditional crop. The wheat failed due to the harsh Tibetan weather. Famine killed a large number of them. Then the PLA locked Tibet to the world for nearly 3 decades. What happened there was open secret, simple plain genocide. The ethnic cleansing is still continuing in every possible way.

If someone argues that it is not happening nowadays means probably PLA is already through with their goals.

But what I don’t really understand is what the Tibetans have ever done to the Chinese to deserve this, this much hatred.

I am sorry for you Himalayan and for your people. There is no one, no nation, out there to help fighting your cause. The world is fighting against the so called terrorism, violence, but it is not ready to fight for non-violence, you people practice. This is perfect example for how useless the UN is.

And you are expecting peace from a nation where powerful minds, students, scholars like are slaughtered like pigs, all dead and gone. Remainders are silenced, not willing or incapable of voicing their concerns. Isn’t it present day China founded on the graveyard of its own culture, very foundation and supporting column of any nation.

Yeah, the greatest achievement by the communist is they have lifted a large number of poor people out of misery. But at what cost? Only difference today in China is, people are silenced by currency instead of gun point which has now changed position from forehead to back. If huge sky-scrappers, gigantic malls, fast trains, Mc-Dos are what the development happening in China, then it is worst than American’s oil-sucking ripe-meat-off-the-bone consumerism culture. At the very least the Americans have freedom of speech, enlightened people like Martin Luther King, Jr, Dian Fossey, etc. Hell even Myanmar (Burma) has people like Aung San Suu Kyi. What China has other than Mao Zedong?

Even for terrorists, robbers and murderers, being rich is glorious. How can you justify it? Or living in golden cage is glorious?

If China is represented by people like above posters justifying Tibetan genocide, then God save China. And terribly sorry for Tibet.

[edit on 12-11-2006 by CosmicScorpion]

The world is extremely beautiful and colorful, just because of humanity wears variety of cultures and traditions. Tibetan culture is no doubt beautiful and unique in its own way. More importantly, they are peace loving folks.

We already lost so many cultures and native people in the name of progress, greed and war. But what happened and is happening till date in Tibet is something unheard in human history, for they are dying in every possible way of death, war, famine, genocide, torture… for remaining list see Tibet. They are/were never aggressive or tried to dominate other culture to deserve such an inhuman act.

Himalayan, there is one old saying, if you want to understand one’s culture, first listen to their music. No matter the Tibetans lived as nomads or slaves or aristocrats, your culture and music is one of the purest and exceptional in the world. I am a great fan Tibetan music (of course, Chinese traditional/classic music too, only surviving part of true China), especially Nawang Khechog, the flautist and composer.

I don’t know what to say, the future looks really bleak. But there is no harm in placing our hope in time. May the mysterious time one day permit you to rebuild your culture and let your people live their life in their own way.

Originally posted by CosmicScorpion
At the very least the Americans have freedom of speech, enlightened people like Martin Luther King, Jr, Dian Fossey, etc. Hell even Myanmar (Burma) has people like Aung San Suu Kyi. What China has other than Mao Zedong?

This showed your ingorance about china, and yet you are posting wronged opinions based on you assumption.
You are assuming there is no enlightened people in china simply because you are not knowledgeable enough to know any, in fact, the so called open minded american education system would not teach you any.

and you are saying that the terrorists are dying for money? will, just go to a middle eastern country and see how much the people there wanted to free themselves from the grasp of the US.
In fact the so called terrorists are just ultra-radical people that chose to protest the american government through the means of violence and terror.

PS. your claim of the so called "pure culture" is in fact suggesting chinese people should not change their way of living, and should still have an old and un-developed society. Well, why don't Americans today live in an old Celtic life? Perhaps they should ride horses and chop tree branches instead of slaughtering middle eastern people for oil?
It's ironic that evnethough most americans claim themselves to be more openminded, the average of americans actually knows less about chinese people than the average chinese people knows about americans.
So what does that imply?

There have been enough discussions made on this topic, I don't want to go further.

[edit on 11/12/2006 by warset]

As the 20th century author Upton Sinclair put it:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Hence the reluctance of major news media to report on the videotaped shootings of Tibetans.

Less than 10 years ago, the U.S. management writer and educator Peter Drucker reminded us that in China historically, revolutions happened on average every 75 years. Ergo, the Chinese government is now overdue for a transfer of power. Gender imbalance in China (more men than women) may be the critical destabilizing factor.

Originally posted by Uphill
As the 20th century author Upton Sinclair put it:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Hence the reluctance of major news media to report on the videotaped shootings of Tibetans.

What the hell? U.S. Major news medias money don't come from China at all... what are you talking about? Western news outlets won't spend a second of time to think when it comes to spewing biased accounts on China. The reason why they aren't reporting on this is because it isn't reliable at all. Anyone can tell you that it seems to be doctored. No major news media would want to lose credibility - simple as that.

Less than 10 years ago, the U.S. management writer and educator Peter Drucker reminded us that in China historically, revolutions happened on average every 75 years. Ergo, the Chinese government is now overdue for a transfer of power. Gender imbalance in China (more men than women) may be the critical destabilizing factor.

That writer is wrong... dynasties have lasted for HUNDREDS of years before changing power. Since the economy in China is doing so well, the gov't is liberalizing ever so surely, AND more than 90% of people believe the gov't is doing a wonderful job; revolution is HARDLY a matter at hand... To be honest, there isn't really even a whiff of wanting a completely new govt by the majority of the Chinese people.

Originally posted by k4rupt
The reason why they aren't reporting on this is because it isn't reliable at all. Anyone can tell you that it seems to be doctored. No major news media would want to lose credibility - simple as that.

Um...the BBC did report about this. I don't know if that is a major news source to you or not.

BBC has NOT referred to the video as a source... and BBC's title of the story is "Tibetans shot 'in self-defence'" not Tibetans massacred... Don't you see, when they don't know the facts, they don't JUMP in and put b.s. pretending it's true - they post both sides of the story.

So, NO, BBC has not, in any way, endorsed the video as fact as the video tries to present, or even the incident for this matter.

And BELIEVE ME, BBC is not exactly pro-China when it comes to their reporting...

[edit on 13-11-2006 by k4rupt]

On Wednesday a British climber, Steve Marsh, told the BBC of his shock when he saw Chinese border guards shooting dead a Tibetan refugee in a group trying to flee to Nepal.

Am I blind or did I miss something? Where does BBC even mention the video? Where does BBC imply the video as undoctored fact that they WOULD endorse?

The video is quite damning if true and undoctored, and I'm sure Western media outlets wouldn't HESTITATE to put it out for the rest of the West to see... However, none have, and there's quite a good reason for that...

The major Western news agency are known for their biased accounts AGAINST the PRC. I know its quite hard for you to see it... but it's true. Hah, I remember on CNN when the news lady scoffed when China asked for an apology and 1 million dollars in retribute when a US spy plane caused a Chinese jet to crash... stating that the most China should get would be $30,000 or something like that... HAH, a multi milllion dollar jet and a man's life - for $30,000?

You think all news agencies are fair and balanced? (Hint hint: Fox News)

BTW, Have you even READ the previous posts I did comparing to Tibet NOW and before the PRC?

Whatever Retinoid... wander in your pool of ignorance.




[edit on 14-11-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by Uphill
As the 20th century author Upton Sinclair put it:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Hence the reluctance of major news media to report on the videotaped shootings of Tibetans.

Less than 10 years ago, the U.S. management writer and educator Peter Drucker reminded us that in China historically, revolutions happened on average every 75 years. Ergo, the Chinese government is now overdue for a transfer of power. Gender imbalance in China (more men than women) may be the critical destabilizing factor.

Now I got it what you wanted to say.

Yeah, that is true, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his 'salary' depends on his not understanding it."

Originally posted by k4rupt

Am I blind or did I miss something? Where does BBC even mention the video? Where does BBC imply the video as undoctored fact that they WOULD endorse?

They are referencing the video even though they aren't naming it. If they didn't there would be no story and they wouldn't have interviewed the climbers.

Hah, I remember on CNN when the news lady scoffed when China asked for an apology and 1 million dollars in retribute when a US spy plane caused a Chinese jet to crash... stating that the most China should get would be $30,000 or something like that... HAH, a multi milllion dollar jet and a man's life - for $30,000?

Heh? Are you sure you aren't making things up right now?

You think all news agencies are fair and balanced? (Hint hint: Fox News)

No

BTW, Have you even READ the previous posts I did comparing to Tibet NOW and before the PRC?

So the hell what, you are making it seem like Tibet should be THANKFUL that China invaded them and made it a second China. I wish the Western countries invaded China during Mao's reign, I wonder what you would say THEN.