Muslim leader: It's the woman's fault who is raped. She's "uncovered meat"

Originally posted by angelofmercy
IMO this cleric is a prime example of a religious extremisit at his best.

His views as you believe, do not portray islamic views. So that means that he is not a religious extremist.

Originally posted by angelofmercy
He may not have incited any rapes(or maybe he has, only God knows), but he is guilty of passing along a message of hatred and violence and should be held accountable for his words.

As I said. Hold the pope and danish cartoonist also responsible.

Originally posted by angelofmercy
All religions have their extremists. It is high time that we, the people of all nations, start holding all of them accountable for their words and actions in the name of God.

It is also high time that we, the people of all nations, start holding our governments accountable for their actions.

Originally posted by angelofmercy
It sounds as if the people of Australia are quite angry and outraged by this caveman's statements( justifiably so!).

Justifiably so huh? So when muslims are outraged at the insult of their faith, it is not justified?

Is he still alive? If so I am surprised!

You advocating death for a speech? lol. Wat happened to freedom of speech.

Originally posted by angelofmercy
Maybe he should be stoned in the town square just like countless poor young Muslim women are when they commit a sexual trangression!!!!

Maybe so, if he commits rape, but he hasnt. So back off a little.

Half_minded, So sorry to offend you. I tried so very hard not to. Please do not tell me to back off though. My opinions matter just as much as yours (even though I am a woman)and you seem to attack every person on this post that does not agree exactly with what you are thinking. I am sorry if you feel discriminated against. I feel badly for the millions of decent, peace loving Muslims out there that are constantly scrutinized due to the actions of a few extremists. When you retort so hatefully to others on this post, it makes you look like you have issues with women, as most of us you are arguing with are females. This forum is for respectful exchanging of ideas, not bashing ,so please be nice! You might just make some new friends!

[edit on 10/29/2006 by angelofmercy]

[edit on 10/29/2006 by angelofmercy]

Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by laiguana
Muslims elected that man to be in such a position and to 'voice' their concerns and beliefs in the Islamic faith. To say that muslims are now a victim of this man would be complete non-sense. Infact to me it only sheds light on the 'true meaning of Islam."


[edit on 29-10-2006 by laiguana]

hahaha thats funny. Muslims elected that man. Thats gotta be the worst generalization ever. Even if you were only referring to australian muslims, you would know that he is not some kind of president of Islam to be presenting the 'true meaning of Islam'. What a joke. People like you make me laugh and make me angry at the same time. Its wierd

You are angry because what this man said is the truth about Islamic faith; he shares his beliefs with thousands of other muslims in this world. It's no surprise when women in Islamic nations are regarded as animals or less. There is a line between what is civilized and is not. Western civilizations have no obligation to tolerate Islamic agendas in their countries. And it is clear that the Jihadist movement is trying to push their views into countries that regard all people as equals, regardless of race or gender.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Have you heard of free speech, people are entiltled to say what they like if you like it or not.

Free speech ??? Never heard of it. I am a bit slow you see and we are not that smart in Australia. Not like people in other countries who are better than us and think they know what goes on here.

I am exercising my right to use free speech just as the Sheik did and I have obviously upset you and others with my opinions. Just as he upset me and not just me and a minority...THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN AUSTRALIA. We must all be very ignorant in Australia then ??

I have a solution - Lets abolish free speech all over the planet.

Do not presume to tell me what to think and feel.

The Sheik has said even more in the last 48 hours...so go check it out.

[edit on 29-10-2006 by resistancia]

[edit on 29-10-2006 by resistancia]

Some more on this topic

www.news.com.au...

www.news.com.au...

www.smh.com.au...

www.smh.com.au...

www.smh.com.au...


In Pace Always
resi

Resi, thanks for the links. This is a truly disturbing situation for all Australians and is particularly problematic for the country's Muslim population. If this cleric is not a religious extremist, I do not know what he is. He is distorting religious views(like most extremists) and deserves to be sent back to the country he was born in. Maybe his country of citizenship will tolerate his views, but Australia should not!

your welcome angelofmercy

Just trying to help keep people up to date with the situation here


In Pace Always
resi

Just announced on the Ten Network in Sydney... 3.30pm Sydney time

Sheik Hialali has fainted and been rushed by ambulance to a nearby hospital. He was attending a meeting with elders to decide his future as Mufti of Australia.


In Pace
resi

Originally posted by half_minded
So how many women were raped due to the mufti's words?

That is completely NOT the point!!

The Danish cartoonist was expressing a truism: that Islam, from his perspectve, is violent; and protrayed that violence showing Mohammed and a bomb in his turban (Many Muslims have blown themselves up to murder others).

Theo VanGogh made a short film portraying how women are subjugated in Islam; which, if you've paid any attention to what's going on around you, you'd know is true (he was murdered by Muslims for his film).

The pope described Islam's teachings as violent; and, of course, this was proven by the riots over his statements. This is a truism.

That Aussie Cleric said women who get raped are asking for it like leaving uncovered meat out to be eaten by cats. Do you consider this a truism? Is what that Mufti said true in any way?

None the less; he is allowed to express his intolerant views without any fear of violence. Try going to, say, Saudi Arabia and criticizing the prophet Mohammed in public. You'd be charged with blasphemy in a heart beat!!

Your arguments Half_minded are half-baked.

Originally posted by half_minded
Many muslims do feel that people should not blatantly criticize Islam or the prophet. Why shudnt they?

Who cares that they feel? I don't. And to stifle myself from criticizing Islam because it's apostacy and un-Islamic means that I submit to Islam--which is exaclty what Muslims want. I won't do that!! You shouldn't either--unless, of course; you're Muslim.

Originally posted by half_minded
If someone standing outside your house called ur wife a whore while it is being popularized in the neighbourhood that she is a whore. What would u do?

What any senisibe, civilized law-abiding person should do: Call the police. He is not exercising free speech. This is harassment AND verbal assault because my family is being singled out.

Originally posted by half_minded
Just like the muslims have various reactions to the the P and D's opinions.

Nope. Not the same thing. Their expression were not directed to individuals. They were directed to Islam as a whole. Much different!!

Originally posted by half_minded
I never supported either P and D or the mufti but I wanna show the clear hypocricy of the people. and I think its crystal clear.

No hypocracy. You're just too stuborn or simple-minded to see the difference.

Originally posted by half_minded
Example: When muslims were shown celebrating after 9/11. Turns out that was false. Muslims were celebrating something entirely different at a different time, yet the media portrayed them as celebrating attacks on America.

Not false. There's a Palestinian community in Patterson NJ who were celebrating and dancng in the streets on September 11, 2001. I saw it with my own eyes. It just didn't get very much (hardly any) attention because it was just a flea-fart of a news item compared to everything else going on.

Originally posted by half_minded
You forget one very important thing. Self Defense. If someone attacks you and if you kill them you can get away with self defense.

That depends

Originally posted by half_minded
You could show that my insults were 'threats' to me. And you can present witnesses to show that I attacked you first. In that case, you would have killed me but still escape punishment for murder.

Wrong!! Insults are never threats of bodily injury. Where do you get your information?

Originally posted by half_minded
Dont twist my words and try to prove ur point in an irrelevant manner.

Don't need to. you're doing that just fine on your own

Originally posted by half_minded
I was talking to all the people that said that mufti should be arrested or deported or some action be taken against him.

People should not be jailed for insulting others. Jails would overflow!! Those who say this cleric should be jailed are simply expressing an emotional reaction out of anger. It only means they're human!! At least they're not chasing this Mufti down to kill him!! Maybe Muslims can learn to exhibit the same behavior. But I doubt it.

Originally posted by half_minded
So you are saying that the pope and the danish cartoonist didnt know they would offend millions of muslims worldwide with their comments or cartoons.

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know what they knew. That's the point. In any case; no one should be afraid to express themselves out of fear that they might offend someone.

Originally posted by half_minded
Thanx for proving my point. So you automatically are saying that the mufti did not know he was insulting women.

It's quite possible he didn't know. Maybe from Islamic teachings it's in his nature to believe that women who are uncovered entice "cats" and deserve to be raped.

Originally posted by half_minded
You seem to be advocating free speech without consequences.

Absolutely!! Always!

Originally posted by half_minded
Yet, earlier you were condemning the mufti for his words?

First; I don't have the power to condemn him. Second; his words simply provided another confirmation for me of the intolerant and misogynistic nature of Islam. Therefore, I openly excercise my right to say he's a dirty scumbag and it's my sincere hope that his "followers" and his "elders" ask him to step down from his leadership position (not holding my breath, though).

[edit on 30-10-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Originally posted by resistancia
Some more on this topic
www.news.com.au...
www.news.com.au...
www.smh.com.au...
www.smh.com.au...
www.smh.com.au...

Thanks for the links resistancia.

Here are some quotable quotes from a couple of those links:

His words were greeted by cheers and applause from dozens of supporters among hundreds of worshippers at mosque.

Many worshippers told smh.com.au they supported the sheik and many seemed bemused by big media attention.

I think so-called "moderate" Muslims are going to have their hands full stuffing the "extremist" genie back in the bottle.

Then in a clear reference to the gang rape trial of Bilal Skaf, he said: "A woman possesses the weapon of seduction. It is she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us ... then it's a look, then a smile, then a conversation ... then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay jail. Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years."

Sex before marriage warrants severe punishment under Islam. The problem is that a woman must produce two male witnesses on her behalf for her testimony to carry any weight under Sharia Law. If she is raped and she cannot produce witnesses she can be stoned to death.

The only incitement committed by 18-year-old Ms C, who was raped 25 times by up to 14 men including Skaf in 2000, was being Australian. Sitting on a train, dressed for a job interview in her best suit, and reading The Great Gatsby, she was a slut, an "Aussie pig" as they called her later, while boasting: "I'm going to f--- you Leb style."

Even wearing a suit these "cats" couldn't resist.

"A victim of rape every minute somewhere in the world," Sheik Feiz Mohammad told 1000 people at Bankstown Town Hall last year. "Why? No one to blame but herself. She displayed her beauty to the entire world ... strapless, backless, sleeveless, nothing but satanic skirts, slit skirts, translucent blouses."

1000 people! Sorta gives a new meaning to "tiny minority". Doesn't it?

You are most welcome Freedom_for_sum.


In Pace Always
resi

Originally posted by angelofmercy
Half_minded, So sorry to offend you. I tried so very hard not to.

You are not sorry for anything and you should not be.

Originally posted by angelofmercy
Please do not tell me to back off though. My opinions matter just as much as yours (even though I am a woman)and you seem to attack every person on this post that does not agree exactly with what you are thinking.

Arguing about a topic is what I am doing. If you did not want anyone to come and debate about the argument then why is anyone here? You seem to be attacking me too with your posts instead of a proper argument.

Originally posted by angelofmercy
I am sorry if you feel discriminated against. I feel badly for the millions of decent, peace loving Muslims out there that are constantly scrutinized due to the actions of a few extremists.

R u really? Then why again and again do people keep pointing fingers at muslims everytime the media decides to put some nutcase in the limelight even though he is not even a government authority. If people go to his sermon, it does not mean that everyone followes everything he says or everyone accepts everything he says.

Originally posted by angelofmercy
When you retort so hatefully to others on this post, it makes you look like you have issues with women, as most of us you are arguing with are females.

Retort hatefully? Hmmm.....i dont remember, maybe you can refresh my mind with my actual quotes that were directed to all the women out there.

Originally posted by angelofmercy
This forum is for respectful exchanging of ideas, not bashing ,so please be nice! You might just make some new friends!

And yet you are doing the same thing because my view differs from yours. Disregarding everything I posted, you make assumptions about me and accuse me without backing up your claim. Typical.

Originally posted by laiguana
You are angry because what this man said is the truth about Islamic faith; he shares his beliefs with thousands of other muslims in this world.

Yeah Mr Know it all. Seems like you have more knowledge of Islam than me (even though I am muslim).

Can you elaborate what this man said exactly? What do u think he said and how do you conclude that its the truth about Islamic faith? And on top of that you also made the assumption that thousands of muslims around the world are same!!!???

Originally posted by laiguana
It's no surprise when women in Islamic nations are regarded as animals or less.

Ofcourse it should be no surprise. Women in every nation have faced this some time or the other. Since all nations have humans, this is bound to happen in Islamic nations too. Its not an exclusive thing to Islam.

Originally posted by laiguana
There is a line between what is civilized and is not.

And you can never see the line unless you actually take effort to know more about the subject. Unless you have extensive knowlege of Quran and Islam, I suggest you do not pass judgements.

Originally posted by laiguana
Western civilizations have no obligation to tolerate Islamic agendas in their countries.

But Islamic nations should tolerate western occupation and military and attacks???

Originally posted by laiguana
And it is clear that the Jihadist movement is trying to push their views into countries that regard all people as equals, regardless of race or gender.

Jihadist movement? Do you even know what Jihad actually means? Go do some research before posting stuff you have no idea about.

Its funny how every muslim basher here claims to know more about Islam than the muslims themselves.

Originally posted by angelofmercy
Resi, thanks for the links. This is a truly disturbing situation for all Australians and is particularly problematic for the country's Muslim population. If this cleric is not a religious extremist, I do not know what he is. He is distorting religious views(like most extremists) and deserves to be sent back to the country he was born in. Maybe his country of citizenship will tolerate his views, but Australia should not!

So you agree that he is distorting the religioius views and yet again you claim that he is problematic to the australian muslims. Why is this a muslim issue, just coz mufti is muslim?

Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by Long Lance
i don't see how a cartoon (noone ever got hurt by pictures) or the pope's Islam bashing can be in any way compared to somebody gloating over victims of (gang-)rape, but that's just me.

Exactly, you dont see the comparison. But lot of open minded people will see it and realize what I was trying to imply.

Stop these implicit insults, ffs, a lot of open minded people (like you apparently,,,) who have to view everything from a religious point of view.


Look, i'll make it slow for you:

If The Pope as a religious figure goes out on a limb and (apparently on purpose) offends The Islamic Faith, it may cause a lot of turmoil among those who feel concerned ie. catholics (and to a lesser degree Christians) and muslims. buddhists, hinduists, taosits, atheists etc just won't care.

If the representant of a community (which again represents their faith, to a lesser degree, just like a measly Cartoonist represented Denmark to a lesser degree) makes a general statement about rape victims and how it was their own fault, it begs the question whether he represents his community's view on the subject, which in turn doesn't just affect muslims but potentially every single woman on earth.

The key issue is that most of the world gets along just fine without veils, if this particular community doesn't, then i hope even someone as 'open minded' as you will see the obvious problem. It's not primarily about what he said, it's about silently embracing a point of view which justifies violence against third parties who don't follow a minority's guidelines.

it's called agression, simple as that. if there was no history of uncontrolled violence like in Paris (all of Europe, but the media just ignored it) in 2005 i doubt such a statement would generate strong ripples, but it fits into a disturbing pattern, even if most apologetic people ('open iminded' ?) on this board will categorically deny it: for example: what about black minorities in France, do you think the eeevil racist white majority that doesn't give the poor Algerians enough jobs will treat blacks any better? do Black French minorities riot ?

cnews.canoe.ca...

halfminded is not arguing against this mufti or muffin or however you spell it. He is arguing with the people here who are retaliating against what this muslim leader said. So to me that says that halfminded agrees with the muftin and is trying to undermine his position in the Islamic faith. Is it that you are ashamed of what this man said half or are you more ashamed that you agree with him and you can't admit it?

Originally posted by laiguana
halfminded is not arguing against this mufti or muffin or however you spell it. He is arguing with the people here who are retaliating against what this muslim leader said. So to me that says that halfminded agrees with the muftin and is trying to undermine his position in the Islamic faith. Is it that you are ashamed of what this man said half or are you more ashamed that you agree with him and you can't admit it?

I am ashamed at people like you who attack muslims on a daily basis. I am trying to prevent the image of my faith which has been destroyed by some muslims and laregely due to western media. But its useless because ignorant people will never open their minds

Oh my, shock horror an ignorant fool has spoken out again, what are we to do, panic, get Hysterical, oh I dont know I'm so scared, its not safe to walk the streets any more you might get hurt by this mans thoughts. Or you can act like inteligent rational human beings and deal with this in a logical manner and allow the authorities to do their work instead of acting like a lynch mob. Restistancia why not just admit that your a man hater and a racist, that is what come's through your posts.

HalfBaked,
In response to Foley not having his words held up to public scrutiny or punishment, let me set you straight on that point: the entire Republican party may lose the upcoming election because of his words. Punishment enough for you?

You highlight my words then offer an opinion then deny that you were talking to me. ????? It is impossible to reason with unreasonable people.

If you'd like a discussion on Islam origins we can start another thread elsewhere and I'd be happy to discuss it with you there. Not "unwilling to confess" but I am unwilling to hijack this thread.

You obviously don't understand the difference between insulting and threatening. Having seen, already, your deliberate obtuseness, I am unwilling to continue trying to explain it to you.

I said in an earlier post that my views were from an American indoctrinated point of view and that IF Aussie laws were similar THEN a similar American punishment could be handed out. Twisting others words to make them fit your preconceived opinion is evidence of a weak mind.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Rilely, Well well well, you finally show your true colours, the raped women of Iraq/Afganistan dont count, you are a women arent you, so how do you bring yourself to say that.

I see you waited a while before responding.. conveniently neglecting to quote me in context.
Let me help you:

Originally posted by Riley

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Riley does your anger over the rape of women only extend to white women or all women.

All women.

Iraqi women who are being raped by US/UK forces they dont count do they as they are Muslims.

They 'don't count' in this instance because this thread is not about them.. my not mentioning them does not mean I don't care about them. It means I'm actually staying ON TOPIC.

Seems you hate this being on topic because you wanted to talk about evil US soldiers raping women in middle eastern countries.. or perhaps you were trying to set a trap so you could missquote me and say [again] that I was being racist by prompting me to use the words 'don't count' [your words]? Oh wait.. you did.

Wanting to stick to the topic IS NOT RACIST.I'm sure there are other threads you could derail.. unless you only want to derail this one?

So when you say why do I bring these into the topic its because of people like you and your attitude thats why.

People 'like me'? What the hell does that mean? I'm a woman that does not tolerate anyone, especially public figures, perpetuating myths like 'rape victims cause rape'.. and, unlike you, I don't believe he should have immunity from the consequences of such hateful statements.

The fact that you mention this person is Muslim and is brainwashing Muslim men to rape white women is bordering on the hysterical and is a total lie.

Hysterical and lieing am I? The mufti actually made mention and condemned their jail sentences and blamed their victims. He has obvious bias for them so I don't see how the two aren't related.. anyone who denies a connection obviously is desperately refusing to see it.
I really don't think it's 'hysterical' or even illogical to wonder if the gang rapists [apx 14 men] attended the same mosques as the rapists came from the same area of Sydney where this mufti preached. Thats more than co-incidence IMO.. they learnt too hate white women somewhere.
I also notice that the fact that they were a major part of his speech.. you know where he defends Australia's worst sexual predators got ignored. Again.

Yes I spelt hajib wrong.. big deal. But how on earth does that make me a liar..? That was just an excuse to denograte me as people know exactly what I was talking about and I never claimed to speak arabic. I will refer to it as a scarf in future.

Its interesting that your concerned of the effect this peson may have on others but does the same apply to you, have you been so easily brainwashed by Bush and his lies into believing that people of the Muslim faith are a threat to you and your way of life.

What on earth are you on about? Is this kneejerk or something? I DO NOT LIKE BUSH and he only gets a mentioned in our media when he stuffs up on camera or is jogging with Howard. Thats not enough to brainwash with and our news does not consist of stories from the US. Other places exist. I said this before.. maybe you habbitually use "bush supporter" when abusing americans but I'm Australian so your going to have to get some different material. I also have PERSONAL experience with this sub culture as I had a rock thrown at me from a muslim gang member at a train station [incidently thats where most of the rape victims were first approached..] who called me a "white slut" and all his mates proceeded to verbally abuse me as well. I ended up on crutches from it so I would appreciate it you stop assuming that our knowledge comes from american shows we never actually see. Apparently if a muslim women gets assaulted or raped it's 'racism', if a non muslim woman gets assaulted or raped it's 'deserved' and if any woman publically disagrees with a muslim cleric's statements she is.. just being racist. Halfminded.. your joke WAS sexist and WAS disrespectful.. making fun of looking at lots of women's vaginas on a thread about rape is not 'funny'.. especially as you've just admitted to watching porn which is something else that exploits women. I didn't mention it to discredit you.. you've done that all by your lonesome and given the way you've spoken to women on this thread it's becoming really obvious that you don't respect them in general.
I'm not going to put up with being attacked anymore.. I haven't lied or been racist and now it seems I get called that and anything else they can think of for just refusing to agree. There is a subculture of hate in Islam, not unlike christianity's KKK where men have raped in the name of 'muslim pride'. The gang rapists proved it [I provided links earler], the cleric condoned it and like it or not George Bush didn't hold the women down so you can't go blaming the evil US this time. They did it all by themselves and a cleric gave them the a-okay for it. Deal with it and face reality.. continually accusing us of being 'racist manhaters' is not going to work either as no-one has said all muslims do this. We KNOW they don't.. it's just the standard cheap shot to shut people up by threatening the 'racist' slur. Grow up.. if you don't like the perspective of the extreamist side of Islam, have the guts to address it within Islamic culture and fight against it's influence instead of pretending it doesn't exist or palming the blame onto victims. Disgraceful.

I'm done.

[edit on 30-10-2006 by riley]