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Israeli F-16's Fire At German Naval Vessels

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posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Pitt
Stumason,
Did you read the Source Link?
It says the German helicopter took off from a German aircraft carrier...
near the coast of Lebanon... The subs were apparently somewhere in the area.
The "helo" was the reason for the Air response...


Er, yes. Apparently, you did not, or at least, read something entirely different. Your making as much sense as a chocolate tea pot. There is no mention anywhere in that article about submarines.

Again, what are you on about?




posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanator
Isreal has every right to shoot at any ships they like if the Germans don't like it they can go home and cry about it to someone who cares. I personally think the Germans should count themselves very lucky to still be afloat if the Isrealis had wanted to they could have sunk it easily. The UN is a complete failure and should just be disbanded before they become anymore of a laughing stock and keep out of Isreali and American business.


What a retarded comment, I don't even know where to start.

Firstly, the UN (here I go again, I've lost count how many times I have to say this) is made up of member countries and is not some "other" organisation. If you have a problem with the UN, the the issue is with the Security Council, namely the 5 permament members who water dowm, veto and otherwise ruin any attempts at global justice.

Also, i suppose that, say, Iran has every right to shoot at any ships it likes? If they want to, lets let them bomb tel Aviv, they have the right don't they? According to your twisted logic. Or don't they have a right? Is it only Israel that can ignore international law and do as it pleases?

As for your comment about the German ship lucky to be afloat.. Whatever. Go back to your War wet dreams. The Brandenburg class (which the F-218 is one of) appears more than adept at taking on multiple air targets and being able to leave a sizeable dent. A couple of F-16's (which, to be honest, are not naval fighters and I doubt were equipped with anti-ship weapons) would pose only a minimal threat.

Perhaps America and Israel can keep out of other countries business too, or are only those two allowed to do as they please?



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 03:08 PM
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Really tragic. For sure...

So according to you the IDF just came in and killed those civilians for no good reason.

If I was to speculate why the IDF incursion came to an end... it might be something along the lines of the Hezbollah terrorists ran out of civilians to hide behind.

A ridiculous position... of course.


Kind of like the entire premise of this thread, my anti-Israeli friend.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by golemina
If I was to speculate why the IDF incursion came to an end... it might be something along the lines of the Hezbollah terrorists ran out of civilians to hide behind.


Friend, if that were the case, and Israel were truly telling the truth about hezbollah, then why did Israel destroy any means of escape for the civilians there? Don't you find it strange that they destroy the airports, bridges, gas stations, and then start telling the media that Hezbollah are keeping the civilians there?

[edit on 26-10-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 04:39 PM
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As someone else stated: Israel needs put in its place and FAST before they keep pulling these stunts and upgrade them to unquestioning acts of genocide.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Vekar
before they keep pulling these stunts and upgrade them to unquestioning acts of genocide.


Yeah, cause what the IDF does to the Palestinian people DAILY is not questionable ?. I have just gradually come to terms with the fact Israel can do what eva is wants without repercussions, whether thats murdering UN troops or Palestinian kids. If the international community ask questions Israel will just play the holocaust card like clockwork.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 07:24 PM
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Frankly, while their dealings with the Palestinians have been brutal and opressive, they do not qualify as "genocide". "Genocide" is a specific term with the specific meaning - the attempt to exterminate a group of people. Israel has oppressed the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, but has not attempted to exterminate them. Though I wouldn't put such a thing past some of their more extremist political factions.

There's really no need for that kind of hyperbole - what Israel is doing is despicable enough, it doesn't require exaggeration and the misuse of terms.

[edit on 10/26/06 by xmotex]



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
All i say is just wipe any war plane that is not lebanese or international over the lebanese airspace. Countries MUST respect international law, Iran, Israël or the US.


There is no such thing as international law? ...

There is however an international moral code which we expect all humans to abide by even though in times of war are irrational. No one is enforcing it, no one can enforce it and no one actually wants to enforce it. No international law.. a country does not actually need a "reason" to go to war either.. that is another illogical assumption made by those who do not understand international relations and human history/nature.

I propose we shoot down any German aircraft that exist German airspace.

See how ignorant that sounds? .. tape your self and hear the words you speak, you are no better then the Israelis that attacked Lebanon.. your just like them.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 09:25 PM
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>why did Israel destroy any means of escape for the civilians there?

Those were also supply lines.

It's not like those nitwit Hezbollahs didn't get resupplied during the course of the 'conflict'.


With regards to the 'Palestinians'...

Poor, poor oppressed peoples.

Unfortunately, the Arab world uses those people as disposable.

The only thing the Arab world seems to provides the poor oppressed people is weapons and explosives and support for THEIR inhumane behavior.

If they spent their time producing some product besides hate and murder, they wouldn't live in the squalor they do.

You don't have to look any farther than the Palestinian leadership to see who their real oppressors are...


bih

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 09:42 PM
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gee and now Im wondering why did hitler killed so many jews



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by rogue1
NOt if it were a conventional conflict, the French would hvae their ass handed to them. Sure the Israeli's would suffer some major damage, but the French forces would be decimated.


Really? I completely disagree..
The French could carry out stand-off missile attacks from way out in the Mediterrenean with surface & sub fleets while providing excellent air defence cover with the Rafale mounted CDG.
The Israelis wouldn't be able to dent the battle group.
Any adventurous Israeli surface vessels would be easily picked by French SSKs and SSNs.
As for attacking French soveriegn territory, well conventionally its a near impossibility for the Israelis.
In terms of mounting an invasion?.. well invasions haven't been too successful ever since the 1970s!!!



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 10:59 PM
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Another thign about International waters..
Anybody can buzz anything in international waters..
Its an open game..
In terms of EEZs, the native forces may feel more obliged to have the upper hand and visibly show that upper hand.
But as far as the UN goes.. well as long as its in international waters, one wouldn't mind, EEZ or not.
Scrambling fighters is ALSO ok as long as they keep to defensive postures and not engage in provocative actions in international waters..
Shooting off flares is NOT provocative, but its an obvious sign of distrust, which is just not called for.

International waters and EEZs are very complicated things, as witnessed by the unfortunate incident with the chinese fighter and the US surveillance jet.
Even though things got quite rough over here, the US jet/crew survived due to a visible submissive stance after the collision. Unfortunately the chinese pilot lost his life (or so they say).

I have just posted this article on another relevant thread. Its shows how things can REALLY go bad when proper procedure is not followed. Any untoward action can/HAS to be considered as hostile and can have an extremely tragic end. Here 16 people lost their lives due to absolute tomfoolery.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 11:05 PM
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You think those German ships will 'lightup' any future Israeli jets again?



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
You think those German ships will 'lightup' any future Israeli jets again?


So are you trying to imply that a peacekeeping ship should turn off all defenses all together because they need to fear israeli reprisal for "lighting them up" with radar? What if it turns out they are Iranian or Syrian jets headed towards them and not Israeli? They should leave themselves open just so the israelis don't become offended? After all we are talking about the Axis of evil and they may strike at any given moment. Not possible? Im not a military person but without being able to "Light up" an approaching jet can they tell who is who?



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by golemina
>why did Israel destroy any means of escape for the civilians there?

Those were also supply lines.

It's not like those nitwit Hezbollahs didn't get resupplied during the course of the 'conflict'.


Utterly ridiculous. So they can justify destroying the only means of escape for anyone, just to punish a few?

Using the same logic, would you justify police officers barricading a door to a burning apartment building, to keep drug dealers from putting their drugs on the street, while also keeping innocent people locked in there as well?



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by golemina
If I was to speculate why the IDF incursion came to an end... it might be something along the lines of the Hezbollah terrorists ran out of civilians to hide behind.

A ridiculous position... of course.


Kind of like the entire premise of this thread, my anti-Israeli friend.


Why the anti' comment my friend?

I think the war ended because world wide opinion was against it and Israel and the US knew it and it was getting out of hand... the outrage!

Funny but I guess you didn't see any of it?



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 02:23 AM
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Okay here some more new news as to what really happened:

The german boot involved in the incident was apparently not part of the international troops,but was offshore in some mission.The boot inself is called the Alster and does not have a helicopter onboard.

The story about the helicopter was a different one that happened several days back and did not cause a furore. That incident and this one involving the overflying of the ship do not have anything in common and are not related to each other.

source

Its in german and i translated part of the first 2 paragraphs, if i find anything in english ill post it but its nice to find a german view of this incident as there does seem to be some confusion involving this incident that is apparently 2 different incidents getting mixed up.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 02:28 AM
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Good find!


I have the Babelfish translated page. Some parts are a little hard to read and understand, but as a whole, I think we should be able to understand the article.

Here's the link to Fett's article, translated through babelfish.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 05:49 AM
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You think those German ships will 'lightup' any future Israeli jets again?


Yep I think they will.
And the French sure as hell will if the Germans don't.

Neither country has much to fear from a power a fraction their size.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by Shamanator
Isreal has every right to shoot at any ships they like if the Germans don't like it they can go home and cry about it to someone who cares. I personally think the Germans should count themselves very lucky to still be afloat if the Isrealis had wanted to they could have sunk it easily. The UN is a complete failure and should just be disbanded before they become anymore of a laughing stock and keep out of Isreali and American business.


Israel doesn't have the right to "shoot at any ships they like".

They wouldn't have "sunk it easily".

And no the UN isn't a "complete failure", it's the reason you can sit at home typing on your computer without worrying if your country's going to get bombed by some other random country.

How can the UN keep out of American business if USA are a key member and the headquarters are in New York?




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