Israeli F-16's Fire At German Naval Vessels, page 3

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 01:17 AM

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Stumason,
Did you read the Source Link?
It says the German helicopter took off from a German aircraft carrier...
near the coast of Lebanon... The subs were apparently somewhere in the area.
The "helo" was the reason for the Air response...

I'm just saying... If everyone has radios and can communicate with one another...
as they apparently did... since No Missles were launched...
Why is this such an issue? Why is everyone so quick to call foul?
An unidentified "chopper" was in the air off their coast... They scrambled...
Sorted it out and nobody was hurt...

Fett Pinkus

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 01:38 AM

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Originally posted by Nygdan

And lets hope they don't. Look at what they did in ww2, they'll do it again.
[edit on 26-10-2006 by Nygdan]

Now what kind of biased comment is that? Apparently you have no clue as to what is going on in german society today!
Did you not note the fun we had here at the world cup? The rest of europe, especially England, was more than suprised by the way we treated our guests and the fact that we partied like there was no tommorrrow.Its about time that the rest of the world woke up,christ ww2 is happened like 60 years ago, its time to let go and take a new look at us germans.
How would it have been possible for the germans to patrol offshore off Lebanon under a UN mandat,if people still thought of us as war mongers looking for another war?
There is no way that there will be a repeat of ww2, we have learned our lesson for sure. I think its high time others toook a look at themselves and their own foreign policy before always picking on the germans.

[edit on 26-10-2006 by Fett Pinkus]

bg_socalif

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 02:17 AM

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Originally posted by xmotex
Both the French and the Germans are an entirely different caliber of opponent than the Israeli's have ever faced in the past.

That is true. They'd both probably immediately surrender.

Vitchilo

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 02:36 AM

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You do realize that that war would be even quicker than the Israel-Lebanon War no? The yehudis would mop the floor with them, and the euros, especially the french and germans, clearly aren't interested in overseas deployments.

Yeah right. And tell me again how Israël would manage the counter attack from all europeans countries, because they are tied.. you know the European Union.

The germans wouldn't stand a chance. They'd be knocked out of the med if they came by sea or destroyed inside lebanon as they enter it from the north. And if things got real hectic, Berlin'd get nuked.

Just in case, are you an Israëli? Berlin'd get nuked? And Israël would be wiped out the map by France, probably Russia & Great Britain, maybe even USA themselves.

And lets hope they don't. Look at what they did in ww2, they'll do it again.

Yeah right. Their grandfathers generation are the responsibles for one of the greatest massacre of the history and they would do it again in a time lap of 60 years? Are you crazy?

So shoot at them. If they're all there as UNIFIL, then an attack on one is an attack on all. BUt, of course, UNIFIL is a joke, as are any UN actions in the region.

Of course, when people aren't respecting anything the UN is saying...

He seems to be saying that he is going to ignore the french requests.

Good for him, bad for his army.

I doubt that they'd hesitate to use tactical nukes on an invasion fleet.

Any use of nukes against an European country no matter who is it would be wiped off the map, Israël or not.

I don't understand why people are even considering that the french woudl do anything here. No euros are going to attack the yehudis without an actual attack occuring,

Agree.

and certainly, if people are pinning their hopes on the military power of the french, well, then hope is all they've got.

Yeah right. They get defeated by a simple militia and a well organised army would lose? AHAHAHA.

And Pitt, Haraatz ``updated`` the article.. damage control due to exterial pression.

[edit on 26-10-2006 by Vitchilo]

kojac

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 02:58 AM

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Originally posted by Xfile
This is just outrageous behavior on israels part.What could have possibly been going thru their minds by attacking a UN warship?At the very least they deserve a stern warning at the UN that such behavoir will not be tolerated and UN forces will retaliate.I would really like to hear an official israeli explanation for this aggression.

Israel have had more "stern warnings" from the U.N than i've had hot dinners. Thay are as about as effective as a fly screen on a submarine.

Typical Israeli contempt for International law.

neformore

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 03:42 AM

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Originally posted by Pitt
Stumason,
Did you read the Source Link?
It says the German helicopter took off from a German aircraft carrier...

Germany doesn't have an aircraft carrier.

Anyone with google can quickly establish this.

neformore

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 03:45 AM

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I assume the US posters defending this here would have no problems if the same thing was done to one of their ships, by - say - the Syrians maybe?

DJMessiah

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 03:49 AM

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Originally posted by neformore
Germany doesn't have an aircraft carrier.

It was a navy frigate. In the yahoo news story, they show an image of one of the two ships, before they departed to Lebanon.

Here.

doctorfungi

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 04:08 AM

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Originally posted by neformore
I assume the US posters defending this here would have no problems if the same thing was done to one of their ships, by - say - the Syrians maybe?

Lol totally different situation. Regardless of that, I doubt any Syrian plane would be able to get in range before being blown out of the sky.

neformore

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 06:26 AM

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Originally posted by doctorfungi
Lol totally different situation. Regardless of that, I doubt any Syrian plane would be able to get in range before being blown out of the sky.

Why is it a different situation?

No state of hosilities exist between the US and Syria. And if the US launched a helicopter unnanounced while a Syrian patrol was passing by then they would surely be entitled to ensure there was no threat, and so what if they fire off a couple of shots - hey if its good for the Israelis then why not the Syrians?

Or are you suggesting that there are double standards in this world that need to be applied?

jsobecky

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 06:26 AM

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Originally posted by Pitt
Didn't anybody else read the "Source" link....?
It says a German helicopter lifted off of an Aircraft Carrier without identfying itself.
This was in an entire paragraph that was conveniently omitted from the original post. Why is everyone so quick to jump without getting the whole story.
I'm sure the headlines would have been much bigger worldwide, had two planes actually "fired" at any other subs...

It's called selective interpretation. People also conveniently failed to acknowledge this part of the source statement:

Defense Minister Amir Peretz on Wednesday denied the reports in a call to his German counterpart, Franz Jozef Jung, and said Israel had no reason to attack German forces. He also said that Israel wanted to increase its coordination with UNIFIL forces in preventative actions. UNIFIL told Channel Two Wednesday that it had received no complaint of Israeli fire.

All this talk of who can beat up who is nothing more than chest-thumping. Someone even said that German tanks were the answer.

A true attack would result in little more than a compaint to the UN, followed by a Resolution, and we all know how effective those are.

ephrin

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:16 AM

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The reason for this incident was a helicopter that lifted off from the German vessel. According to the Israelis they have no permission to do so. Thus, they forced the helicopter to land... Thats what the Israeli side is saying...

xmotex

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:26 AM

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So let me get this straight, the Germans need Israeli permission to launch a helicopter off the Lebanese coast? When they're participating in a UN mission the Israelis signed off on?

Sorry, but these folks need to be taken down a peg or two.
Their failure in Lebanon clearly hasn't sunk in yet.

Rockpuck

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:29 AM

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Originally posted by Pitt
Didn't anybody else read the "Source" link....?
It says a German helicopter lifted off of an Aircraft Carrier without identfying itself.
This was in an entire paragraph that was conveniently omitted from the original post. Why is everyone so quick to jump without getting the whole story.
I'm sure the headlines would have been much bigger worldwide, had two planes actually "fired" at any other subs...

In regards to Israel, that is how it is treated here on ATS, any chance to bash them, acuse them, in any other way desicrate their name on the board will be taken and used to the fullest extent.

Agenda? .. I think so.

Reality Hurts

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:39 AM

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Originally posted by Rockpuck
In regards to Israel, that is how it is treated here on ATS, any chance to bash them, acuse them, in any other way desicrate their name on the board will be taken and used to the fullest extent.

Agenda? .. I think so.

No kidding.

I'm no fan of the American support of Israel, or Israel's constant disregard of international law, but come one people, at least hold all nations to the same set of rules. If you're going to vilify Israel for doing something, you can't let another nation, like say Iran or Syria, do the same sort of thing with impunity.

You can't say one thing and then let another get away with it. That makes YOU a hypocrite.

JamesinOz2

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:46 AM

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Back on topic...the Debka version states that the incident involved six IDF F-16's, that no missiles were fired, that battle stations were manned on the German command ship and that the IDF F-16 film of the event is being sent to Berlin to prove that no missiles were fired. Make of it what you will. One thing I do know is that there's a heck of a lot of state of the art military hardware on land and at sea in that part of the world at the moment.

Excerpt from:
www.debka.com...

Conflicting versions released by Germany and Israel of an incident in which two Israeli F-16 warplanes flying low said to have shot two missiles at a German naval vessel off Lebanon

October 26, 2006, 11:32 AM (GMT+02:00)

DEBKAfile’s military and intelligence sources have investigated the incident, which was first disclosed by the German daily Der Tagesspiegel earlier Wednesday, Oct. 25 . They confirm that it did occur and involved six Israel F-16 warplanes and the German navy command ship, the Mecklenburg-Vorpommern F 218 frigate, which leads the UN naval force opposite Lebanon.

Tuesday evening, Oct. 24, Israeli warplanes were flying low over Damour 20 km south of Beirut on their way to gather intelligence of arms smuggling to Hizballah through the Lebanese coast. The European fleet deployed to monitor the coast for arms smuggling cannot get close enough because the ships are not allowed by the Lebanese government to access coastal waters. On their way from west to east, the Israeli F-16s passed low over the German command vessel, releasing infra-red decoys to ward off any rocket attack. This triggered an alert on the German frigate and its crew jumped to battle positions.

At this point, the Israeli and German versions diverge.

The frigate’s officers flashed Berlin a signal that Israeli air force planes had fired two missiles near the ship. Israel denies this. The Israeli defense minister Amir Peretz, who talked by telephone to the German defense minister Franz Josef Jung Wednesday night, insisted the ship’s officers were wrong. The conversation was described as acrimonious. DEBKAfile’s sources in the German capital add that Israel agreed to send over films taken by its warplanes in the course of the episode to convince the Germans that no missiles were fired and expected Berlin to release a notice of clarification on this point.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

[edit on 26-10-2006 by JamesinOz2]

Rockpuck

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:50 AM

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Now that the real story is out and all those who jumped to conclusions.. what do you have to say now?

Of course you no doubt hate Israel still, even though this story was not true and was fabricated by the german navy.. I think they should applogize honestly.

rogue1

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:56 AM

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LOL, if the Israeli's had wnated to sink the German ship it would hvae been sunk. I can assume that firing 2 shots probably means 2 bursts from teh 20mm cannon, nothing more. No big deal as some may like to think.

JamesinOz2

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 09:20 AM

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Whatever alarms were triggered on the German command ship were sufficient for battle stations to be manned. I'm not familiar with on board protocol in these situations, however it seems that the Germans armed and aimed their anti-aircraft weapons ready to retaliate. I wonder what kind of anti-air armaments exist on such German Command ships? I'm also guessing that they could've called in air support from the Charles De Gaulle in the form of Mirage aircraft, Harriers from the Italian carrier or maybe even Luftwaffe assets based on Cyprus? I'm no expert on this subject so if any on this board with naval expertise wish to elaborate please do so.

Britguy

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 09:37 AM

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If the German ship, on UN business, was in International or Lebanese waters then the Israelis have no legal reason to intervene or intercept. To do so is an open act of aggression and should be trated as such.

With their continued overflights of Lebanon as well they are openly defying the UN once again, in factt they always do so it's really no surprise.