ATS a Conspiracy

Sorry, there are some conflicting comment from Springer and SO on the telephone numbers saga. Did the member know where the number came from or not?

I'm quite surprised that an intel agency would use real numbers (going by SOs explaination). It would have been easier to set up fake lines that could be disconnected on completion, once the response time was determined.

What is the policy on classified info? Has ATS been approached due to the content of a thread's discussion (as opposed to an obvious breach like someone posting a document with classified information)? Would ATS hand over the IP address of a member if requested because there was concern that their discussion breached security policies? I can think of a few people on here who may have access to classified information, but most of them are usually pretty smart when it comes to not saying too much. It simply isn't worth the jail time!

Personnelly l think this site excist purely because of the large amount of interest from us the general public regarding the subject matter that is not Top Secret most people on here any length of time will see the title of this thread and think oh not another,this been done loads blah blah.This site isn`t run by the govt.Do govt spooks come here of course without a doubt.You think people in the CIA,NSA,MI5,MI6,CNI,Mossad etc etc etc etc don`t have a private life.There nothing special they just have a job that most people on here (won`t admit) would love to have.
Very few people in the main stream population know this site is available.Do terrorist,spooks from other threat countries anarchist etc etc etc etc come here same for the friendly spooks but l doubt that they come seeking info that can be used.There are more practical ways to gain info than wait for that post that maybe of use before the mods remove it.Therefore to release security info would be a waste of time unless the board is doin it to keep peoples interest.Maybe a mod did it to give the people here somekind of thrill, add some credibility to the site keeps the people here interested.Think about it if we proved every theory on here the site would be very baron

[edit on 27-10-2006 by zuri]

Originally posted by zuri
Personnelly l think this site excist purely because of the large amount of interest from us the general public regarding the subject matter that is not Top Secret most people on here any length of time will see the title of this thread and think oh not another,this been done loads blah blah.This site isn`t run by the govt.Do govt spooks come here of course without a doubt.You think people in the CIA,NSA,MI5,MI6,CNI,Mossad etc etc etc etc don`t have a private life.There nothing special they just have a job that most people on here (won`t admit) would love to have.
Very few people in the main stream population know this site is available.Do terrorist,spooks from other threat countries anarchist etc etc etc etc come here same for the friendly spooks but l doubt that they come seeking info that can be used.There are more practical ways to gain info than wait for that post that maybe of use before the mods remove it.Therefore to release security info would be a waste of time unless the board is doin it to keep peoples interest.Maybe a mod did it to give the people here somekind of thrill, add some credibility to the site keeps the people here interested.Think about it if we proved every theory on here the site would be very baron

[edit on 27-10-2006 by zuri]

Really, so If I make a post on the disinformation forum about compiling a list of the debunkers (goverment or otherwise) And keep in mind I never said I was going to publish it, then that type of info is not worthy. I'ts no wonder so many people see this site for what it possibly is! here's the MOD Jak excuse for TRASHING my post on the disinformation forum (very convenient of the them, huh)

JAK the Mod..

27-10-2006 at 01:33 PM
It was necessary to move a thread you created titled, ATS 911 Debunkers List.... which was originally posted in the Deconstructing Disinformation & Deflection forum, to the Trash Bin forum. JAK has initiated this action, and included this message about it:

Nope.

The opportunity for victimisation and drama is too much. It is easy after a time here to get to know members and their beliefs.


__________________________________________________-

really, really, really, how long will this post last?

Ivantheterrible, your thread was thrashed because what you were proposing basically boils down to "witch hunt" of ATS members. Witch Hunts on ATS are not allowed. The premise of your thread suggests that we do here on ATS exactly what many of us fear is happening in this country, being categorized and profiled for a having a opinion.

If you have problem with your thread being trashed, submit a complaint so that the entire staff can see it. Promoting and instigating drama by posting in this thread is uncalled for and unneccessary.

Terms and Conditions of ATS

8) Right of Community Management This is a privately owned discussion board community. The Owners and senior moderator staff reserve the right to take action against any member who is deemed to be devoted purely to disruption, whose actions represent behavior contrary to community building, or whose content is contrary to the core ideals of AboveTopSecret.com. This action may include complete banning of your username and IP address. The owners of AboveTopSecret.com, LLP reserve the right to eliminate or edit any content deemed inappropriate for the discussion boards, news network or any affiliated sites.

Originally posted by Willard856
Sorry, there are some conflicting comment from Springer and SO on the telephone numbers saga. Did the member know where the number came from or not?

I'm quite surprised that an intel agency would use real numbers (going by SOs explaination). It would have been easier to set up fake lines that could be disconnected on completion, once the response time was determined.

You lost me there, there was no "response" to be determined, they were the agency employee's direct dial phone numbers, you know, the telephones at their desks. They were simply unlisted/non published phone numbers. They didn't want them all over the net for obvious reasons (prank calls, etc...)

Originally posted by Willard856
What is the policy on classified info? Has ATS been approached due to the content of a thread's discussion (as opposed to an obvious breach like someone posting a document with classified information)? Would ATS hand over the IP address of a member if requested because there was concern that their discussion breached security policies? I can think of a few people on here who may have access to classified information, but most of them are usually pretty smart when it comes to not saying too much. It simply isn't worth the jail time!

We don't have a "policy", the law dictates what is required and what is not required. It's no problem to utilize tools that can mask your IP on the internet and in those cases there's nothing we could hand over anyway.

Our legal firm would handle all requests like that. I will say we've never had that type of request and I can't imagine ever getting one. Like I said, IP addresses are EASILY masked and there's no way anything on our servers would help anyone figure out who it really was.

Springer...

[edit on 10-27-2006 by Springer]

Just to clarify where my confusion lies, were SO and Springer's post on two different incidents? There just seems to be some differences in your recollections.

Springer said:

Nobody noticed anything, it wasn't an "exercise" it was telephone numbers posted by one of our members, where (s)he got the phone numbers we don't know.

No, the Member who posted the phone numbers did not tell us about it before posting them.

But SO said:

Short story, a Pentagon-based intel agency decided to test our response by paying a vendor firm to post hoaxed secret documents on ATS with real direct-dial numbers. Then, when members started dialing the numbers, they contacted us to ask for their removal as a means to judge how we would respond.

That's where my response comment came from. Maybe seperate incidents and that's why the details are different? Not trying to cause trouble or suggest anything, just trying to understand what happened, and it makes a difference as to whether it was an exercise by the pentagon, or if it was really genuine numbers. I'm already in the bad books with some mods, would like to try and keep on side with the site owners if possible though!

Thanks for the clarification on whether you have been contacted regarding material posted on here. Guess that means most members with those funky IP addresses are behaving themselves!

Originally posted by ivanterrible

Really, so If I make a post on the disinformation forum about compiling a list of the debunkers (goverment or otherwise) And keep in mind I never said I was going to publish it, then that type of info is not worthy. I'ts no wonder so many people see this site for what it possibly is! here's the MOD Jak excuse for TRASHING my post on the disinformation forum (very convenient of the them, huh)

Great another person with poss syc problems that is giving this site to much importance.
How can you prove these people would be debunkers?
Nothing posted on here can every be proved so why debunk?
Its peoples opinions here,people with beliefs disbeliefs thats as far as it goes.

News flash yesterday men in Black showed me all the secret`s held by US Govt will post shortly all info be available on all threads for the next 365 days 24hrs as l can`t say when l`ll post or where as people need to read before mods,govt debunkers get to read it and remove.

And if you believe,disbelif that you need a medical site.

Please this is only a disscussion site of little importance and membership.

Originally posted by RichardGeere
I believe there are moles in ATS as well. One of my posts got deleted for no apparent reason.

I believe there is a serious mole problem that must be adressed on ATS to ensure stability and order and inquire uncorrupiveness, i believe there moles in the ground also.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
I don't know why the three Amigos haven't gotten tired of these incessant "ATS is a front for the CIA/NSA" crap and saved themselves loads of headaches by posting a nice big banner on the top of the main page that says:

"Welcome to ATS, the webs most popular COINTELLIPRO site.

Actually they did, sort of...


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Okay, so it's only a thread. But it's stickied to the top of this forum.

Originally posted by Mechanic 32

Actually they did, sort of...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hey all,

Have been doing some digging and found out quite a bit of info on the whole Cointelpro issues.

I believe that a conversation was had by if not the amigo's themselves then certainly senior members of staff, about how to stop ATS being ranked top in Google for being cointelpro.

Image how undesirable it would be for potential members if they searched for ATS and what they saw was ATS is cointelpro.

When I started this thread I had absolutely no idea what a Pandora’s Box I was opening.

While I was searching for more info on this subject, I found a thread on another forum which may or may not be true, but interesting none the less.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to post a link to that forum here so I will just put an extract.

Is Abovetopsecret.com a COINTELPRO site?


There is a fascinating debate on some more of the wacko sites about this issue.

This is quite complicated. Initially Catherder (a poster who seemed to come and go unanounced) created a thread that posited that a A Boeing did hit the Pentagon. on Abovetopsecret.com.... He outlined his 'facts' and as usual people debated the topic. So much so that it has to date 2585 replies with 521,228 views.

So what?

Skepticoverlord, the Admin behind ATS has a relative who saw the plane go overhead and hit the Pentagon. Therefore he had some pretty strong views on the subject.

So what?

Another website Sig******* has been basing its popularity on an article on their site which they say shows the opposite of catherders, that a Boeing did NOT hit the pentagon.

Sig****** has had over 600 million views on the page, and it serves to sell their book as well.

Lots of ego, respectability, and money are tied up in this theory by Sig******.

Inevitably the two divergent views met. Sig******** posted an article rubbishing www.abovetopsecret.com...'s article.

So what?

The article also took potshots at Skepticoverlord and Springer, claiming that they were trying to maipulate the discussion and push it in the direction that the Boing existed.

Naturally The ATS Admin were pretty pissed off at this and followed with a series of emails asking for the slur on their names to be removed.

These emails were posted on Laura Knight Jadczyk blog way down the page on the 7th January with the title COINTELPRO Updates: Above Top Secret Forum

Quote:
Springer wrote ... I am disgusted by your accusation that AboveTopSecret.com, LLP is a "Government funded damage control outlet" I ask that you retract that lie.

(part of his email).

Following this acidic exchange, sig...*******.org decided that www.abovetopsecret.com... were infact a government fronted website used to vacuum up debate on the net and guide it into pro government directions, in short www.abovetopsecret.com... is a Government COINTELPRO Disinformation Operation.

Hillariously an old April fools joke where the admin admitted www.abovetopsecret.com... WAS a government backed site, has been used as evidence by Signs of the Times as proof of its actual involvement.

Now as that debate gathered steam on Laura Knight Jadczyk's blog with many anonymous and disgruntled members putting their sticks in, it seems to have created a dilemma for www.abovetopsecret.com...'s admin.

How do we avoid getting labelled as a cointelpro site in the search engines? Presumably went the backroom discussion. Such a reputation on the net could cripple a website like www.abovetopsecret.com..., and deplete its membership. Who wants to talk about such topics if they thought it was going straight to the Government?

The answer was to capture the top places in Google for the words abovetopsecret.com and cointelpro using a "google bomb". A google bomb apparently is a thread, in this case, containing the key words that makes it rank highly in Google.

By creating a thread that contained those posts and in that thread try and show that you are not a cointelpro website would reassure the members and google searchers that its all bunk.

Now in google at present there is pushing and shoving for the first place entries for the terms Abovetopsecret.com cointelpro click on the link and see that they have been somewhat successful with their thread now holding 3rd and 4th position.

What is my take on this debate?

Firstly knowing the admin from quite a few years, there is no way that this site is a government backed operation. They really are just ordinary guys.

The originator Simon Gray, is just your nice average British computer geek, with an interest in conspiracies who's website under the magic of Bill (Skepticoverlord) has blossomed far beyond its original goal.

Bill is an advertising executive in New York, with an impressive combination of programming and advertising who rebuilt the site from a stock xmb board like this one to the megalith seen today. Under his work and guidance the site has reached the massive membership and structure you see today.

The third admin, Mark (springer) is just your ordinary unemployed ex-insurance salesman.

None of them work for the government. Really

For me I am more than content that even if ATS were Cointelpro it would be counter counter intel for any would be recipient within a powers that be situation.

The reason I think this is that there are simply too many threads with so many points of view, a single thread no matter how biased always has a thread with the exact opposite view.

I am sure that there are Agents of the wider govt. here on ATS or Monitor ATS, but does that really affect what ATS is or stands for???

I don't think so.

I will continue to dig...

Just came across this



Would be interesting to correlate the highs and lows of ATS against certain threads that appeared around times of ups and downs in page impressions.

All the best,

NeoN HaZe.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Neon Haze]

Alexa is increasingly unreliable for a picture of overall traffic.... consider that it would only report traffic trends from users who have installed the Alexa toolbar, and that the typical person interested in ATS topics would not install any such software.

In any event, it does show a general trend, and the big spike in late 2004 is because of the U.S. presidential elections.

And we didn't really "Google Bomb" our own Cointelpro thread... that would be spamming the search engine and we try to be exceptionally ethical where SEO is concerned. We just used our highly search optimized code to our advantage to get an important topic to #1 quickly.

Over the years of running a massive "conspiracy theory" and "alternative topics" discussion board, we're learned a lot (usually through painful mistakes). One of the painful lessons is that, even if we overtly promote and support intensely critical conspiracy theories, when the executive leadership posts any comments critical of any conspiracy theory, it's seen as "ATS is COINTELPRO" or some such. Apparently we're expect to agree with each and every conspiracy theory, not matter how much our personal experience may tell us a theory is garbage.

Oddly enough... high profile online conspiracists such as those attacking ATS are not criticized for their thinly disguised efforts of profiteering on poorly constructed theories (isn't that a disinformation technique?), or basing libelous theories on April fools jokes.

I can honestly say this...

I have been to some of the "Bash ATS" sites and one thing is obvious..

They have a very vitriolic hatred for the Admin. here at ATS. They also have an incredible ability to "Spin" their own versions of anything that may or may not have transpired.

All one really needs to do is go to these sites and read what they are posting to understand there is nothing of any real merit there. They seem to feed off of their own hatred as is evidenced by their inability to "Go their own way."

I think that SO said it very well. If the Admin. comes out either in favor or against any particular theory, it can and probably will always be construed as some deep government cover-up.

Is it not just possible that the Admin. here is made up of.... hmmmm People!!!
People have opinions and should not the founders/creators of this site also be allowed to form and express their own opinion without us breaking into panic over some preconceived government spy network?

The people on these other sites are keeping some deep feelings of resentment inside and obviously feel the need to express that in attacks against SO and the other Admins. Even some members get landmined...

Semper

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
the typical person interested in ATS topics would not install any such software.

You mean because alexa could be considered surveillance?? Hmmm Yeah I see what you mean....

Oddly enough... high profile online conspiracists such as those attacking ATS are not criticized for their thinly disguised efforts of profiteering on poorly constructed theories (isn't that a disinformation technique?), or basing libelous theories on April fools jokes.

I think having read plenty of ATS slaging from these so called reputable sources it is clear their motives....

ATS is simply at the top of the ladder and in a place these sites could only dream of being in. These other bloggs/boards are attempting to move up the rankings by knocking ATS.

Silly really, since it is that behavior that makes it impossible for them to ever reach the mammoth size of ATS and sister sites.

BTW that April fools joke was hilarious, though not as generous as the HaXoR Clown

Anyway, nice to get a reply from you SO

All the best,

NeoN HaZe.

Not out tonight to slam the site, just thought this relates a little more, for me, as to what Redge is alluding to... this quote on the first page specifically:

Congratulations! Did you just now figure that out? The ATS staff have already said that they believe there to be "paid posters" or disinfo agents posting on ATS.

Of course there are moles. I talked to one guy who was involved heavily in the military and had a Ultra-Secret security clearance, he stated there were departments employed FULL time to just spin crap to keep people from figuring out the truth on a issue.

They don't do that here - nah!! What are you talking about the 'Grainy Fuzzy Alien Video of the Day' is not mean't to distract you, and neither is the 'Reptillian movement' designed to debunk the truth movement as a whole.

After a while you almost look for the debunking to go on to confirm that the information is valid - like Dr Deagle states, he never believes the government was involved until they issue a denial..

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