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Thousands of Troops Barred from Overseas Duty Because of High Personal Debt

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posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 12:51 PM
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It is pretty sad they had to turn to loan places in the first place; especially a PayDay loan establishment (crooks!).

They need to shut down these payday "modern" day loan shark places for one. Number two, any person who serves in the US military and will lay their life on the line should be important enough for the US government to put through financial courses and have an agency within the armed forces that will work with these soldiers and their families to help them with their debt and budgeting.

As far as food stamps, etc. I am a little confused about. Don't they pay for everything if you live on the base (if they have space available)? If it is a matter of being on a waiting list, they need to increase their housing and provisions for these families.

The US is making it more and more un-appealing for someone to enlist. The spirit of defending your country is wonderful, but it gets harder to keep up that spirit if it is hard for you and your family to survive in the screwed up economies we live in.

The US allows these crooks to stay in business because I believe they want to cripple the economy to make sure people stay in their place, but they are crippling their own military to do so. Idiots.




posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Godsent
It is pretty sad they had to turn to loan places in the first place; especially a Payday loan establishment (crooks!).

As far as food stamps, etc. I am a little confused about. Don't they pay for everything if you live on the base (if they have space available)? If it is a matter of being on a waiting list, they need to increase their housing and provisions for these families.



No, really, see Mr. Rumfeld that is actually very against military unless is for war duty, is trying to turn everything into the hands of private groups.

Many housings are closing and people has to go out to live in the community as to help the community make more money.

You get a basic BOQ allowance but when you are to find out of base housing usually your BOQ allowance only match the most low income areas in town, so if you want better quality of living you have to add money from your base pay to make up for the BOQ allowance.

That means choosing good schools in the community and good living areas vs. bad areas and stick with what BOQ can pay without dipping on regular base pay.

And no nothing is free in the military, I can tell you that been there done that for 22 years.


My husband and I never qualify for anything like stamps or anything given by the Navy Relief society.
While we were a military family.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Like I say the ones suffering the most are reservist in duty, they are a big group serving in Iraq.

It is not easy to take a pay cut from your regular finances specially if you are living on a budget.

I guess it depends on the company you work for.

Every corporation I have worked for for the past 30 years made up the difference between the reservist pay and their regular salary. They encouraged people to serve, and did all they could to make it easier for them.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I guess it depends on the company you work for.


Oops, I should have specified the difference between reservist and active duty.

Active duty only gets BOQ, hazardous pay, I believe is two kinds, plus the none tax while serving in the front lines.



Every corporation I have worked for for the past 30 years made up the difference between the reservist pay and their regular salary. They encouraged people to serve, and did all they could to make it easier for them.


Yes you are right but it has to do with how big the company is, most people that work for corporations like Home Depot, Wal-Mart and same category only gets the promise of having their job back.

So I imagine that is not to many lucky people working for a big company with benefits like that.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow



Our entire economic system is based on usury.

My question:

Why has loans and credit card marketing surged to such a high and predatory level in the last few years?



This is the point here. Why is this allowed at all?

The people that run the financial system are the same ones that pull the strings and fun d the politicians it appears.

Only the elites are served well by an out of control financial system that does what it wants and rips off the average person.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow

Why has loans and credit card marketing surged to such a high and predatory level in the last few years?

.


Well actually it started with the Reagan years, but now they got actual legislation occurs with powerful lobbyist to give them more benefits under the law against consumer.


Like I said we are a nation of big spenders and that is very profitable, so that is when lenders come around to offer their goods so we can keep spending.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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oh if we got what we make now while living in say...south dakota, we'd be doing wonderfully. but try living on an E2's pay while in monterey california. not as easy. even with being able to shop at the commissary, trying to feed two people, having a car and any of the basic 'niceties' (cable internet etc) it is tough. we're not taking the food stamps at this time but we live paycheck to paycheck and every so often its "mom, can u spare $50?"

if i wasnt sick and could work we'd be doing fine, but even after my 12 years of service the govts decided to jam me up over my disability as well so its been a challenge.

i just think people who are willing to get shot at deserve better pay. but i also think teachers cops and firefighters deserve more pay too.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 07:52 PM
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Seems to me if you lose your security clearance you get reassigned to a job that doesn't require one. Such as INFANTRY? (the engine room or flight deck if you're navy)

I don't see this as an automatic out. Getting out of warfighting, that is. Getting out of a cushy desk job maybe, but not out of an overseas assignment.


[edit on 25-10-2006 by psyopswatcher]



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 08:43 PM
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This is really a big issue for the military. My unit has even go as far a placing some pay day loans places off limits. There reason places try to take advantage of soldiers is because they know they have a pay check coming in that they can't back out of. Want to make some money? Set up a place that soldiers would like to go to right off of a military base. It's the cash flow that never stops. Twice a month the money is rolling in.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 08:45 PM
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yea my friend got discharged for that



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by Godsent
They need to shut down these payday "modern" day loan shark places for one.

Why? Because its a bad deal for the person that takes the loan? Too bad, don't take the loan then.


Number two, any person who serves in the US military and will lay their life on the line should be important enough for the US government to put through financial courses

The military already gives them food and housing allowances and provides them with housing on bases. They shouldnt be taking out the loans in the first place. THey can live off of their paychecks if they deposit them, and the military even gives them direct deposit into their bank account, they'll even split their paycheck up into multiple accounts, say 10% (or half, or whatever) into a savings account, and the rest into a checking account.


As far as food stamps, etc. I am a little confused about. Don't they pay for everything if you live on the base (if they have space available)?

They get food and housing allowances in addition to their paychecks.


If it is a matter of being on a waiting list, they need to increase their housing and provisions for these families.

I've never heard of anyone that was active in the military AND homeless because the military couldn't find housing for them.


The US is making it more and more un-appealing for someone to enlist.

?
If people want to make loans and collect interest off it, thats perfectly within their rights. THe only way to 'solve' this 'problem' is to make it illegal for a soldier to take loans.


apc

posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:44 PM
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I do think these 'Title Loan' or 'Payday Loan' type places should be more heavily regulated. Certainly not eliminated, because they do have a reasonable purpose. However, their tactics prey on those that are most desperate and vulnerable. Not too long ago, desperate people turned to the mob for a loan. If you couldn't pay up, they broke your face. Now, they just take your car. Sure, it's their own decision to get the loan in the first place, but given the choice between risking their car and feeding their family...

I most definitely do not see any legitimate reason any active member of the military would need to even enter one of these places. They have a guaranteed paycheck. They have guaranteed food. They have guaranteed housing. The only things that come to mind is maybe the soldier doesn't expect to be alive to have to pay back the loan, or that for some reason being in the military will let them "get out" of their debt.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by apc
their tactics prey on those that are most desperate and vulnerable.

So?


apc

posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 07:58 AM
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Do we try to protect children from child molesters?

Do we try to protect the elderly from scam artists?

In my opinion, we should also try to protect the hopeless from loan sharks.

I don't think anyone should be flat out denied access to these types of establishments. Not even soldiers. But, just as the bankruptcy laws were recently changed due to a sharply increasing number of filings, usury laws should also be adapted to curb this problem.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:22 AM
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some states are regulating it already. virginia has capped it i know (though i forget off the top of my head at what, but its not AS ridiculous as some places) but 150% sounds right to me at the moment.

and just for curiosity, nygdan...how much do you think soldiers make? even with housing allowances etc? ill tell you, its not all taht much for lower enlisted. its enough to get by but who wants a job to "just get by"?



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 08:44 AM
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Nygdan

I was a military wife for 22 years things are not as nice and easy as you make it look like.

Is poverty in the military families, your pay and allowances are base on your rank.

Is not such think as free ride with housing and neither with food, allowances may not be enough when a family is a big family, as its happening now.

Allowances are neither enough if the family lives in a high income area and is not housing available.

It was a time in which you had to have certain rank to have housing and when you had to ask permission to get marry if your rank was not enough to support a wife.

Now days the government needs people so they are taking already established families that look to the military for help to support their already growing families.

So telling like everything is like a free ride is completely wrong. Because is not such thing as a military ride.

Especially when the military is turning a blind eye while recruiting and bringing already people with debt up to their neck records.

I know and can testify for it I also worked for family services and the amount of problems with military families was just the same as the ones facing many families
in low income areas in any town USA.



[edit on 26-10-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 09:30 AM
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The old saying in the navy was, "Your spouse wasn't issued to you in your seabag." So forget about your family, sailor, and just do your job. They're on their own.

Another one was "Navy wife, toughest job in the navy". She was the one left handling the household budget while the sailor was on his six-month deployment out to sea. And she got reminded of it (like she could forget) everytime she shopped because it was found on the paper sacks she brought her groceries home in from the commissary.

Of course the most appropriate one is, "Rank has it's privileges". Like Marg says, "...pay and allowances are based on your rank." ... And allowances.

Please allow me to differentiate. There are two separate housing scales in play here, aside from the pay scales between O (officer) and E (enlisted):

One for enlisted known as BAQ: Basic allowance for quarters (living arrangements).
And one for officers: BOQ Basic officer quarters(?)

While I certainly agree that the higher ranks deserve higher PAY, what gives anyone the right to have a BASIC higher standard of living (allowance for quarters)? They are already being compensated for years of duty, higher skills and knowledge, more responsibility according to their rank, etc. in the pay scale.. But to be compensated again to have a higher standard of living?

That inequity just never seemed right. But then again, I've always been a socialist at heart.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 09:50 AM
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psyopswatcher

Thanks for bringing the issue of hierarchy in the military, yes you are right even in the military service is a division of class and they are served accordingly.

From enlisted to officers is a very distinct separation, and that comes with no only housing selection, but also privilege and allowances.

I lived through all of it, at least I should be glad that when I married my husband he was already a Marine Sgt, so it was not that bad after he became a non commissioner officer.

That is when our standards of living were the best.

Many people do no understand that just like anything in our society we are divided by segregation in our military just the same, when it comes to the lowest ranks to the highest.

The military doesn’t encourage mixing of Ranks either on social gatherings.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 12:54 PM
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Mixing of ranks is called 'fraternization', and like you say Marg, definitely a no-no. With one notable exception: Softball


And like I said, a pay scale for rank is one thing. A pay raise is earned along with promotion. For allowances is another matter altogether.


As for losing a security clearance over being in debt is justified (by their thinking) that the indebtedness can somehow lead to blackmail or worse. The service member turning to spying for the enemy... Selling secrets for the extra cash it takes to get out of financial trouble.

That's where it gets quite sticky.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by apc
Do we try to protect children from child molesters?

Charging high interest rates on loans to people is hardly the same as molesting a child.


protect the elderly from scam artists?

I am unfamiliar with any legislation that protects old people in particular from fraud. Fraud in general is protected against.


I don't think anyone should be flat out denied access to these types of establishments. Not even soldiers. But, just as the bankruptcy laws were recently changed due to a sharply increasing number of filings, usury laws should also be adapted to curb this problem.

What can be done about it other than prohibiting people from having access to these types of loans and establishments???


ill tell you, its not all taht much for lower enlisted.

All the more reason to move up in rank.

its enough to get by but who wants a job to "just get by"?

Anyone that has enough to get by, but then takes out loans without even having enough common sense to try to figure out how much it will cost them in the end, well, they've made a mistake. Its not the job of the government to hold their hands everytime they consider using their credit.


marg
Is not such think as free ride with housing and neither with food, allowances may not be enough when a family is a big family, as its happening now.

If they can't afford to have a big family, they shouldn't. I know lots of people that can't afford to have big families and don't. The military pay is enough for people to get by.

It was a time in which you had to have certain rank to have housing and when you had to ask permission to get marry if your rank was not enough to support a wife.

Sounds like those are the kinds of rules we should go back to then.

So telling like everything is like a free ride is completely wrong. Because is not such thing as a military ride. [/quote
I never said it was a free ride, these people are putting their lives on the line. The military gives them a paycheck, and housing and food allowances. Its not enough to 'live the life', but people shouldn't be going into the military to make lots of money anyway. Its a tough life, but lets not pretend that the people that have these loans are merely victims of predatory lenders and low pay from the government. They are the ones that haven't used their sufficient, if not generous, pay unwisely and they are the ones that have chosen to take absurdly high interest loans, or loans with low introductory rates followed by high later rates.

Its sad, its unfortunate, but lets not make this out to be everyone else's fault. Lots of people are in debt today, except for the people that saved their money where they could, who lived within their means, and avoided making bad deals with loan companies. They themselves share the bulk of the responsibility.
You can't prevent companies from offering high interest credit.


Especially when the military is turning a blind eye while recruiting and bringing already people with debt up to their neck records.

Well whats the alternative? Telling people that haven't been able to get steady work that, no, they can't join the army? If anything that'd just make their situation worse. The military has its benefits, consistent pay, job training, funding for school, housing and food allowances, etc. It also has its defeicits, the pay isn't all that great, and, of course, you can get killed.


psyopswatcher
As for losing a security clearance over being in debt is justified (by their thinking) that the indebtedness can somehow lead to blackmail or worse. The service member turning to spying for the enemy... Selling secrets for the extra cash it takes to get out of financial trouble.

I don't understand how they can say that a person has lost their clearance to go overseas, but can stay in the military. If a person has enough debt to make them enough of a risk that we can't send them to war, then whats their purpose in the military any longer? They should just boot them out, or at least not offer up a contract renewal.



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