Coincidence? You Decide!

Have you noticed that whenever the government floods the media about an issue, they tell us that they want to have a "War Against ____", they wind up spending trillions to *increase* the effects of what they're "fighting against"?

1) War on Poverty...Poverty levels have risen.

2) War on Drugs...The drug problem has only grown more prevalent.

3) War on Terrorism...Terrorist incidents have increased, not only homeside, but worldwide.

There are *many* more examples, but these are merely to make a point.

Not only that, but the government is also *directly threatening our national security* in order to tell us that they want to strengthen it. They *cause* the problems, tell us that they can solve the problem if we sacrifice more of our freedoms & money, then only *increase the problem itself*!

Coincidence? You decide.

Aren't these the same tactics used by Hitler to gain power in the pre-WW II years? Same tactics as used by Stalin? Mussolini? Hundreds of other despots as documented throughout history?

The tide of history is repeating itself yet again & no one wants to prevent it. The American public *can* prevent it, but only as a *whole* united together can this repetition of history be stopped.


[Edited on 5-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

The war on terrorism must be fought and won.
However, you have noticed a common denominator that is truly troubling. Is there anyway to privatize the war? It would run more efficiently, cost less and be finished quicker.
Gee, M-D, this does cause one to ponder. Except B-T; he'll just want us to roll over and take it up the wazzoo!

Air Force vet here, Thomas. Get that rise out of me anyway you can, huh?

MD: I've been able to see the trend crystal clear as well. You have people like Thomas and the rest of that crew who are the epicenter to the profile needed for implementing that plan. They'll be laid off, audited and sick with West Nile and STILL swear Bush is sent from heaven.
How do they do it? Here's a history repeater:
"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
--Hermann Goering, Nazi leader, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II

Here's what you and I will likely die over, and what Thomas will welcome as Christian Conservative GOP values:

boss.streamos.com...

nice video BT, 'Can I have your name' lol.

This is typical liberal hyperbole, when it's the liberal policies that are realistically more oppressive, from Reno to the Brady bill to oppressive taxes, the left takes the cake.

[Edited on 5-11-2002 by Bob88]

couldn't go there, B-T, my sound card seems to be silent

As far as your written post, the idea that you'd want to compare what needs to be done for the safety of the nation to Hitler or any of his staff is absolutley absurd, and is once again an attempt to demonize.
Why don't you just go ahead and call conservatives the devil? Why pussy-foot around, go all out!

M-D made an astute observation you've not responded to: Where is the criticism for the measures enacted to date? NOT going back to Clinton, Bob, because then your lawyer could still speak to you with confidentiality guranteed & the Feds STILL needed a warrant to tap your phone/ISP.
Hyperbole? You do remember Operation TIPS had libraries track the information on those taking out certain books, as does the US PATRIOT ACT. No liberal ghost, but Bush written policy, look it up.
Thomas, Conservatives are my friends, that's who I shared a good conversation with over those Bass Ales today. The RRW, fascist, CCR's ( or whatever label you go by) are the devils. No one so far to the Right can pretend to call themselves a Conservative.

Bless your heart, you are now calling the "moderates" conservatives. Nowhere have I made any statement that would be considered "fascist"; demonizing again, are we?
A good beer is a terrible thing to waste...on a liberal!

Much fuss was made recently about the German justice minister who compared George W. Bush with Adolf Hitler. There would be no fuss and no controversy about it if there was not some truth in it. If anyone had compared Bill Clinton to Adolf Hitler, you could only laugh, no one even thought to think that, it didn't apply at all. Bill Clinton was and is a sincere promoter of peace and prosperity. But comparing Bush to Hitler is not totally out of the question.

Hitler was an insane and vicious madman, of low intelligence but with a persuasive charisma, on the far right politically, and who took Germany into wars invading other countries for supposedly great patriotic purposes, security of the republic, and empire-building. He was an egomaniac, a bully, a dictator, and a ruthless tyrant who believed in using domination, violence and killing to achieve his political aims. He had no sincere respect or concern for the national constitution, civil rights, individual freedoms, or a building a prosperous economy, and his regime brought great harm to his country. He became drunk with power and aimed to create a dominating world empire ruled by him.

Hitler presided over a major national disaster (the burning of the Reichstag, the national parliament building) which he was discovered later to have participated in creating. That event gave him the opportunity to declare an emergency and expand his dictatorial powers further, so as to enforce his fascist beliefs and goals into societal reality and gain personal benefits as well. He used the war-terminology "homeland" often, and whipped up fervent patriotism to support his wars. He used war as a means to distract people from domestic troubles and issues (the specific comparison the German justice minister made), kept the population of the country in constant fear, and exploited that fear for his own purposes. Hitler said in his writings that if you cannot create war then at least continue to propagate the idea that war is coming. Never leave people in peace, because when they are in peace, you are nobody. Then they don't need you; your very purpose is gone. They need you only when there is danger; so create danger. If there is not real danger, at least create the climate of a false danger.

A relevant story, reported to have been a conversation between George Bernard Shaw and a female dinner guest: Shaw asked, "If a man you just met offered you a million dollars to have sex with you, would you do it?" She thought a moment and said,"Well, yes I think I would." "OK, so if a man you just met offered you fifty dollars to have sex with you, then would you do it?" Shaw asked. "No, of course not!" she replied indignantly, "what do you think I am?" "We have already established that," Shaw responded, "now we're only haggling about the price!"

That's were we are with respect to a comparison between Hitler and Bush. Not about if he's like Hitler, but only about how much so. --R. E. Bell, October 4, 2002

Really, B-T, you've gone so far over the boundries of reality your post can't be responded to on the sane side of the line.

BTW, that haggling story was first credited to Winston Churchill talking to Lady Whats-her-name.

[Edited on 5-11-2002 by Thomas Crowne]

[Edited on 5-11-2002 by Thomas Crowne]

Well, stop & look at evidence that exists; The bombing of the fed building in Oklahoma just a couple of years ago, for example; The government would have you believe that Timothy Leigh was acting as a lone terrorist to bomb the building. The only explosive was in the truck & there was only that one explosion from outside that literally gutted the building.

Yet, security cameras & eyewitnessess have shown that there *was* at least one other person in that truck that Leigh used. Federal agents confiscated those tapes "as evidence for investigation" & the only indication we have left that Liegh was not alone are from those few locals who viewed the tapes *before* they were confiscated. The government is still "looking for" the other man, even though eyewitnesses gave good descriptions & his face was caught on the security cameras. They'd have a much better chance of catching him if they'd release his image to the national public...Presuming, of course, that this really is what they've intended to do, instead of *protecting him*!

Witnessess on the scene when the truck fireballed have testified that there was at least two explosions, spaced roughly one second apart form each other. Documented seismograph readings during that time, from *two* seperate universities that conduct seismic-monitoring, detected two seperate explosions, spaced roughly one second apart. These universities have indicated that the last explosion could've been a tightly-spaced *series* of explosions, but seismic readings are not sensitive enough to see any kind of seperation between such a series.

Federal agents decked out in full bomb-squad gear arrived within minutes, yet reliable sources indicate that it takes about a half-hour to don all of that gear. Other witnesses who were in the building before it was blown have testified that those *same agents* were witnessed to have been warned out of the building by their pagers (No one else was warned, not even the kids in the daycare center!)...Only to show up after the explosions, decked out in bomb-squad gear.

Local authorities determined that there were at least *two* other non-exploded devices still within the building & those *same federal agents* who showed up were witnessed removing *two* unexploded bombs from the building. Federal investigation has completely cut off any real investigation by local authorities...Completely removing all real evidence from view.

Professional (civilian) engineers have indicated that the truck that Leigh used was parked too far away from the building to have caused the extent of damage suffered by the building. Not only that, they've indicated that much of the internal damage of the building has shown evidence of *professional demolition techniques*, using shaped explosives at key structural points, timed to explode in a well-timed sequence...Even though not *all* of the explosives actually detonated; Remember the "second explosion" from the seismic readings that I mentioned earlier? All of this is consistant with the pre-planning & engineering techniques of *professional demolitions* & planted *before* Liegh's truck pulled up outside.

So it seems that this evidence ties into the concept that our own federal government is ultimately responsible for the planning, execution & subsequent coverup of that incident that they refer to as a "terrorist attack". So it seems that our own government is *perpetrating* terrorist attacks against its own population! And these "attacks" have only grown in frequency over the years, despite Bush's "War on Terrorism".

Of course, the events of 9/11/2001 has revealed more evidence that our government not only *allowed* those attacks to take place, but had a heavy hand in *perpetrating* those events.

What of the more recent reports indicating that the Florida voting fiasco is *not unique* in this country?; That states all over the country are reporting evidence of fraudulent voting procedures? could this be the government's way of telling us that voting no longer counts & will no longer be an acceptable means of choosing our leaders any more? If Bush declares martial law, then the higher elections will be suspended for the "duration of the crisis" anyway & he'll *remain* in office by force instead of public mandate; I'm looking for him to declare martial law *before* the next Presidential election that's scheduled.

So far, I have *not* made up any of this...Links to sources of this info are scattered throughout these very forums. I *am* going to point out that the remainder of this post is not *confirmed* as truthful evidence, but written here only to point out that the *indications* of what I think is on the agenda for American citizens.

IMO, events are coming to a head:
1) Even though we still have some permanently-stationed troops still on American soil & the Reserves are active, the vast majority of our troops are now overseas. Instead of insuring our security by keeping them here, the government has sent our security forces halfway around the world.

2) The "chipmobile" is on the move, looking for volunteers to be chipped. All the government has to do is declare martial law & they can bybass the Judicial Branch entirely to declare that the chip will be *required* by all citizens. Anyone who still refuses can be arrested & detained with *no legal rights* as a terrorist, according to the Homeland Security Act (Which, BTW, was signed by legislators without even being fully read or debated).

3) Whether this is true or not, I don't know...But there have been reports of FEMA constructing & equipping "refugee camps" in several locations throughout the country...Some reports indicate that these are actually "death camps", to be used to dispose of "unwanted elements" of society. Once martial law is declared, the government can make use of these freely, without any kind of legal hassles that "human rights & citizens rights" can involve. As support of these reports, look at how much money has paid to Amtrack, to purchase trains & traincars. Other reports indicate that these traincars have been modified with concerns for increased ventilation capabilities. Just suppose that the "warehouses" in these "death camps" are designed to allow access to trains, decoupled & sealed up inside...Then the modified ventilation on the cars allows the "warehouse" to be pumped with lethal gas, killing anyone inside the traincar. Granted, more investigation is required to *confirm* this, but the indications aren't looking good at this point.

4) About martial law: If most of our troops are overseas, who's going to *enforce* martial law? I've seen other reports (Still not *confirmed* yet) that the government has set up training camps to train foriegn troops on our soil. Why? Good question. If martial law is declared, how many of our *own* soldiers would be apprehensive of pulling the trigger on American citizens, on American soil? How many others would go AWOL & join the citizens? Much of this problem is solved if most of our own troops are halfway around the world & martial law is enforced by foreign troops. Granted, our troops overseas may actually revolt & return to help out the citizens, but by the time they arrive, it would involve a long, drawn-out battle against the foriegn troops, who would already be dug in & supported by the government. Either way you look at it, the citizens will lose a *lot* before anything like "normalcy" can be restored. Some estimates include up to 80% of American citizens being wiped out, no matter which way this new "civil war" would go; Granted, I have no idea how this estimate was calculated or what parameters were used to come up with that figure. No matter how you look at it, it's very distressing.

I don't have to be psychic to make these predictions &, unlike Ed Cayce, I had to "wake up" to see this, rather than "being asleep":

Bush will declare martial law before the next scheduled Presidental election; Either that or he'll delcare that the voting-procedures are "too suspect" to be trusted & will demand to retain office until a different, "suitable" system replaces it.

Once martial law is declared (Or Bush finds some other way to suspend elections & come up with the appropriate "Executive Orders"), the ID Chip will be *enforced* upon all US Citizens. Anyone who refuses will be labeled as a terrorist & arrested. Martial law will be enforced by US-trained foriegn troops, who will have no qualms about killing American citizens...While American troops will be trapped halfway around the world. Since our prison facilities will not be up to handling such a massive influx of new inmates, the government will reveal the new "detainment camps" & begin to secretly eliminate (Ie: kill) prisoners in massive numbers that Hitler would've envied.

The UN will be powerless to stop the new "American Regime" because NATO (which mostly consists of American troops & equipment anyway) & the UN itself would be restricted by jusrisdiction concerns. Remember that the UN has nothing in their Charter that allows them to interfere with events that are *contained within national boundaries*!

Some of the American troops will try to break away from overseas to join the new "revolution", but will be restricted mostly by the geography & logistics of the return journey. Some Commanders will be likely to disobey current orders & go AWOL, returning whole units back to American soil. They will return to find foriegn troops already entrenched.

Some Americans will "escape to the hills" to fight a partisan-style resistance, but I can't see whether this will be enough to make a major difference in the war as American troops begin to arrive from overseas. To all current indications, may *guess* is that too many citizens will have been brainwashed by too many decades & generations of governmental lies & deceitful mass media to do anything more than give in without a fight. To the citizens' credit though, I *have* seen indications that more people are actually "waking up" & starting to care about their country being corrupted to such an extent...But it's more a matter of *timing* than anything else, that will tell whether or not enough people will resist to win against the new "American Regime".

The pieces of the puzzle *are* out there for us to see...The picture that this puzzle paints is extremely unsettling. IMO, it's time to put up a massive resistance to the government (preferably a peaceful resistance that would clean out the corruption, rather than a violent one that would cost many American lives) & restore this nation to it's former position...As outlined by our Founding Fathers & the documentation that they bequeathed to us.

However, the time to act is now...*before* the events I foresee can come to fruitation. If American Citizens can group together as a *whole* & confront the govermental corruption, then none of what I've forseen will come to pass. It'll take no less than many *millions* of true patriots, striving to secure our stolen liberties, to accomplish this...IMO, we have no more time to lose. As I've already indicated, events are apparently coming to a head...

...And all I continue to hear is the same bipartisan bickering the *keeps* this nation divided & too weak to resist these atrocities.


[Edited on 6-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
your post can't be responded to on the sane side of the line.

Thomas, please please let me be considered 'sane' in your book: Bush is doing a great job as president, no matter what the Liberals say - we need our liberties curtailed, Ronald Reagan was a great president who single handly crushed communism, Iraq is a world power capable of sending unmanned planes to the US, Eve is the mother of humankind and we all sprang forth from her loins....will that do?

Another patriotic American like myself who thinks the Twin Towers were Bush's Reichstag Fire.
Fascists to the core, from Prescott to GW.

M-D, my banter with the Rabid Right Wing is just throwing peanuts at the monkeys. My concern is the brilliance of the misdirection so far, to the lax observer, it's all partisan sour grapes to defend your party against. What I see is the same as you: an illegal cabal enacting a plan to permanently usurp the country.

- Why all those murders at Fort Bragg by servicemen of their own families over such a short period? A mind control experiment that spilled over.
- Why was a heavy artillery unit mobalized for domestic security?
- Why are they giving free 'flu' shots out to municipal & postal workers?
- Why no investigation into the West Nile outbreak in the South, knowing full well that West Nile is one of the weaponized strains?
- Why were seismic readings picked up in NJ several minutes after the second plane hit the Towers? It proves a powerful device dropped the Towers.

Too many questions for anyone not asleep.

[Edited on 6-11-2002 by Bout Time]

Ok, so now we finally receive evidence that B-T creates scenarios out of smoke. Troops under mind-control, earthquake weapons used against NJ, artillery units aiming to demolish Hometown USA; I think we've learned alot. Oh, yeah, the West Nile. You mean the one that was pinned on Castro (but soon after it came out the story was quashed?)

Apparently the majority thinks he is doing a decent job as his job approval rating is darned near 3/4's of America as I saw today. Mind you, that's job approval, not overall approval. There are some of us that watch him closely because his last name is Bush, but still, his job approval is great.

Ronald reagan buried the same bunch that said they were going to bury us, buster, and that is an undeniable fact. No matter how bad you weak-hearted types screamed for us to accept that the Soviet Union was unbeatable and that we should compromise with them, Ronnie saw it through.

Iraq sending unmanned plnes to us? Why not just equip willing martyrs with chem, bio or nuclear (or "nukular", as Bush calls it - :mad weapons? No use getting too awfully imaginative - stick with the tried and true plan.

As far as Eve - One day we'll all know for sure; the day we die. Don't be surprised, pal.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Ok, so now we finally receive evidence that B-T creates scenarios out of smoke.

American Taliban: Mullah Thomas Crowne presiding over the ATS site!

Thomas, I guess being in the age of ignorant-can't-see-beyond-my-nose-idealouge-fundamentalists you are extremely comfortable in your own element, no?
Because you haven't bothered to expand your horizons beyond Fox News means it MUST NOT exist, huh? Pathetic.

- The Seismic readings: read the articles in the forum on this site and then ask yourself why a cadre of world class independent engineers, hired by the Tower owners to investigate, had there reports and finding locked away by the Federal government?

- Murders at Ft.Bragg: again, this site is a great source of info, read the forums and ask why career military men in a time span of weeks & months, all snapped the same way, all followed the same MO in the murders and all happened to be stationed in the same place?

- West Nile: You mentioned it yourself, a weaponized strain, in the hands of all AXIS member states, Russia and a bunch others, why is it not being talked about more than it is?

- Reagan: Please! Alsheimers Boy was in the office when the toll of Communism's lack of capatilistic structure coupled with way too many sattelite countries to support that weren't carrying their own weight, came to critical mass & imploded. Your sorry buttocks could have been in his chair & the same thing would have happened! If sinking our country TRILLIONS of bucks into defecit by spending on fantasy weapons systems that STILL don't work is what you're alluding to, you can have that point.

- Reservists Deployed to Provide `Indirect Fire Support` Using Heavy Artillery
"The Iowa Army National Guard`s 1st Battalion, 194th Field Artillery, will be ordered to federal active duty, the Department of Defense and the National Guard Bureau in Washington, D.C., have announced. The battalion, headquartered in Fort Dodge, will deploy to locations within the United States for homeland security missions as part of Operation Noble Eagle II. The soldiers will provide indirect fire support, using artillery weapons accurate from a distance of 11,000 to 12,000 meters, King said."

www.rense.com...

Now ask yourself (after you extricate your head from your sandbox) why in God's name are weapons whose prime targeting distance is 5 to 7 miles, being deployed in US cities? Are they somehow expecting NORAD to become obsolete? Are our sattelites not working that we would NOT be able to pick up aircraft or boats traveling in force against us? Or are domestic targets the sole target all along?

You're right too infrequently to make assumptions of other's facts, my friend.

"Education isn`t how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It`s being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don`t."

One can always see a little that is persuasive in this post-Orwellian line; although a problem with war is that one tends to lose 50% of the time.
I've always thought the old Roman trick of "bread and circuses was probably safer and perhaaps more effective, as a way of controlling and manipulating the masses.

Bob88, would you please respond to B-T's assertions, I grow weary of it.

well in short, anyone who dislikes Reagan, quotes Rense, and speakes of mind control isn't sane enough to logically debate. BT's just sore his team lost big time last night! Maybe the dems minds were being controlled to vote GOP or they were in their bunkers avoiding all the artillery and couldn't come out and vote.

Stay on topic boys! And please read something besides Fox/Newsma and the rest of your crap traps!
Answer me why a Heavy Artillery Division is being deployed in US cities?

I know you guys are light weights, but try stepping up in class!" What doesn't kill you....."

Please, show me pics of the 155's or 8inchers rolling throught the streets. I've gotta see this!
B-T, you talk nothing but nonsense and make goofy allegations. You have gone so far to the outskirts of reality that it is difficult to figure out how to respond. Rense isn't even quoted here unless out of fun as even we recognize twists in truth when we see it. Earthquakes being triggered to topple the towers? You want to say we are not fast enough to keep up with you? Troops at Bragg commiting homocide is due to, to, to what? Seriously, what? Say it aloud, and see how silly it sounds.
West Nile, who they've pinned on Castro has what to do with any of this?

You say I'm in some minority (Wow, considering the unheard of election results of a few hours ago, you have major back-peddling to do not to mention spin-controlling), yet you fire such things at us with a presumably straight face.

Come back to the troposphere, B-T; you are too intelligent to be way out there!

Well, I guess this means that the US is going by way of Bush's NWO (Even though I'm pretty much convinced that he's as much of a pawn in the scheme as the rest of us are) because people are having too much fun arguing with each other than to stop a (IMO) probable future that will make Hitler look like he grew up as an abused chior boy who turned himself into a Boy Scout.