ATS History: COINTELPRO and "WhispersInTheDark"

Originally posted by Ycon
Wow we could make another conspiracy here.

Isn't that all you really want?

You haven't actually confirmed anything concerning DR. So can you tell us what's up?

Originally posted by Ycon
SkepticOverlord, if these script kiddies were able to change the date stamps on their own posts as WITD, using the old, super-sloppy XMB 1.6 and 1.8 code. Would it also give them the ability to change other members date stamps when quoting WITD posts?

All he would need to do is a mySQL UPDATE an entire new post into the database record corresponding to the member's post with all the edits. From what I recall gleeding off the XMB forums regarding 1.6, this type XSS attack was possible through three different PHP templates.

Another question, do script kiddies use the term beltway in their hacks? or is that a term used mostly by experienced and pro hackers?

Beltway? No, it has nothing do with hacking. Anyone who reads politcal news knows what the "beltway" is.

As I remember that group defaced the site on that day.

Different days. I don't recall the specific cronology, but the defacing was a much lower-order attack than what the WITD person did... and I recall it being several weeks apart.

It was a difficult time back then. I was just getting up to speed with the need to learn serious server and application security, we were going through significant changes, we had break-neck growth, and a handful of mischievous members and former members hell-bent on causing problems (we also had a serious DDoS attack from a few of the malcontents). And this was all well before the real "Deny Ignorance" spirit of ATS was beginning to form... the board spirit that eventually made every second of the effort, stress, and anxiety well worth it.

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Ycon
Wow we could make another conspiracy here.

Isn't that all you really want?

I'm not sure what you mean by that valhall

No, Im not going to say anymore about DR. Believe it, don't believe it. I don't really care.

Skeptic, then why did you come to my chat and ask me to relay a message to TBATS group that they have won, if they defaced the site a few weeks before?

What am I supposed to believe or not believe? You haven't really said anything definitive. Why are you now backing away from confirming what you seemed so adamant to insinuate?

That's odd.

[edit on 10-27-2006 by Valhall]

Valhall, I have said he has passed away. Thats all I have to say about it. I don't have proof, so believe it or not.

So what happened to him? (As far as you heard, that is.)

Originally posted by Ycon
Skeptic, then why did you come to my chat and ask me to relay a message to TBATS group that they have won, if they defaced the site a few weeks before?

I can't remember. What's the point in pressing this?

Skeptic, it's just that you seemed to be more upset with the TBATS group then you were with the WITD thing. I just wondered why


Valhall, I can say no more about it.

Ycon,

Im not sure what you mean by TBATS in this paticular thing. I think you might be confusing the two episodes.

The Sunday hack I was talking about was long after TBATS. It was well after WITD. I remember it was either October or November 2003 on a Sunday afternoon (Sunday afternoon in Seattle). I was on the board and remember the whole thing going mad. I saw I had 27 u2us, which was a first, Ive never had more than 7 unread ones. I clicked on it, and my u2u box was filled with Skeptic Overlords u2us, read and unread. Eventually, it was made known to me that everyone who was online at the time also was experiencing the same thing. As well as the whole board gone screwy, with threads popping up about this and that with inflammitory remarks and accusations of this and that against various mods and admin, as well as some WITD claims. It was different from TBATS.

TBATS, for those folks who werent here when it happened, TBATS stands for Take Back Above Top Secret, and it was a group of members who felt that ATS had gone to the dogs (or the feds or illuminati or whatever....more than likely, cases of personal grudges and vendettas) and the formed a little cabal that was involved in a hack attack on the board, defacing it. The members involved were originally banned, but Skeptic allowed a number of them to return after they apologized and promised not to do things like it again. This occured in June or July 2003, right before WITD, if my memory serves me right.

The Sunday afternoon hack I was refering to didn't have anything to do with the original TBATS.

I do, however, remember when Skeptic Overlord was getting ready to quit.


Val,

I do indeed hope that perhaps Ycon's source on Dragonrider was wrong. However, I lost contact with him a while back, and so did alot of other people. He simply vanished, and no one knew what happened to him. I remember even trying to telephone him only to find the number was disconnected. I had a bad feeling about it, and somehow, I just have this gut feeling DR was gone.

skadi, no I'm not confusing anything. I still have a copy of the conversation in my chat with skeptic when he resigned. The only thing I might of had wrong was the day of the defacing, I thought it was the same day.

Originally posted by Ycon
skadi, no I'm not confusing anything. I still have a copy of the conversation in my chat with skeptic when he resigned. The only thing I might of had wrong was the day of the defacing, I thought it was the same day.

That could be it then. I do remember they were two entirely seperate incidents. It was the second one, when ATS got totally hacked and the board was in chaos that Skeptic was going to resign.

I don't remember the exact day either, except it was a sunday and was after TBATS and WITD.

I came across a DR post yesterday browsing some archives and grew curious. So I clicked on his name to view 250 recent threads created by himself. Lone behold there are a few RATS threads that give us some serious insight to what ATS was at the time. The skepticism of our members at the time was a little disheartening. ATS then and now is light and day in my opinion. When a staff member today speaks, I believe we listen. I lost count of members who were ignoring the wishes of the staff and blatantly taking shots at the Admin. Poor William had a rough go in those days.

What you spoke of Skadi, was playing out before my eyes. Even your post apologizing, as you felt partly to blame.

Was an interesting read.

Ycon banned


anyways...
i read the RATs post a months back and we were a paranoid lot back then. We've taken positive steps since then, which brought us altogether.

huh? Ycons been around for a long long time and now finally gets the boot? Ok, maybe she was on to something with what she said in this thread. Maybe a conspiracy afterall!

Let's not turn this into something its not. It's obvious what happened to this member and well deserved in my opinion. Any attempt to create drama on the board deserves a punishment.

WITD will always be the ghost of ATS, like a curse.

till this day, he still has a habit of causing problems....

Ycon banned again?



I remember she and a few others got banned before the WITD episode, but were unbanned and brought back. Now she is banned again.



That sucks. I should have given her my email so I could at least kept in touch.

WITD takes another long term ATS member out. Guess it isn't as dead as I thought it was.

Whispers in the dark ? That sounds like a bad porno !

I think this is the fourth banning for Ycon (at least in total, maybe not for that specific pseudonym of hers)... I've lost count over the years.

It's simply amazing the level of doubt and ill-will that continues to this day over this subject. While I'm not sorry we restarted this topic, I am really amazed that this important event in ATS history still causes these feelings to surface.

As many have pointed out, it was an interesting time of us... we were just beginning to grow (in our 4th month on our first dedicated server) with new traffic and increased features... but the growth was leaving some "die hard" members in a lurch. The increased activity, new members, and the beginnings of what some saw as the commercialization of ATS caused a "clash of cultures" on the board.. leading to distrust and knee-jerk finger pointing.

I suppose we'll never escape this. No matter how hard we try to show that we were pranked (by someone skilled in ATS topics using "script kiddie" tricks), those who still cling to distrust and doubt will pick at old wounds looking for... for... well... I don't know what they're looking for.

In the end I think this was an important event for us to experience and retain in our collective history/memory. On one hand it shows the frailty of the "old ATS" of that day, and on the other it shows a hint of the promise that ATS was to become. Some would say it very nearly brought us down... even accuse some "ATS insiders" of a prank gone wrong... I say no...

I think it was our tipping point... an event that was the catalyst for what ATS is now, and will evolve to in the future. After this event, our staff began to gel into the kind of forum staff that is the envy of the Internet. After this event, our membership demanded a new level of quality governance and decorum that is unrivaled anywhere in open online discussion now or before. After this event our membership responded exceedingly enthusiastically to a wealth of new services including free uploads, blogs, new boards, and free podcasting (among others).

This is the event that sparked the cohesiveness of this amazing online community. Without it, we may not be here right now.

It's sad that some valued members were driven away by it (sadder still that one seems gone from this existence)... we'll never know how much better we might be even now if their contributions continued. But such is the difficult price of change... it can often hurt.

I'm not happy the "whispers" event happened as it caused me lots of direct stress... but I'm proud that our community reacted the way it did... it changed us permanently for the better.