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Who's stolen Christmas?

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posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Mcphisto
Why does everything have to be happy holidays now? Or Seasons greetings?


So that the cards are appropriate to all faiths. We tend to buy the cards in bulk and to send them to friends and family of many different faiths. The generic cards sell better -- the card sender doesn't have to buy a pack of Jewish cards and a pack of Cards Suitable For Someone Whose Faith We Don't know, and a different set for the agnostics, and a different set for the Baptists, etc, etc.

It's a way to include EVERYONE in the holiday!


So that means other faiths take offence to Merry Christmas? A picture of Rudolph gets Muslims in a rage? Of course not. As I said earlier, I dont mind when other religions greet me with thier religious remarks like 'happy honicka' (sic) and I have never heard of any muslims or read any incidents of muslims or other faiths complain about Christmas, Rudolph or his elves! So why are work places worried about putting up Christmas trees and displaying decorations solely depicting Christmas as a Christian holiday? Coz guess what!?...Whichever way you cut it, Christmas is a bloody Christian Holiday!


So why do these do-gooders come up with this $hit?




posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Mcphisto
So that means other faiths take offence to Merry Christmas?

Considering that you're taking offense at a non-religious general 'happy holidays' statement, I don't think you're in any position to criticize another faith even if it DID take offense at 'merry christmas'.

Also, what part of byrd's statement had anything to to do with others being insulted? Byrd's saying that people don't say 'merry christmas', because when they're actually wanting to give a greeting and good wishes to a person, they figure 'happy holidays' will be more sensible, since you don't know if anyone is a christian, jew, muslim, hindu, etc. So by saying 'happy holidays', they're accomplishing what they want to say. Saying 'merry christmas' to everyone is silly, since not everyone celebrates christmas.


So why are work places worried about putting up Christmas trees

Thats really up to the individual people at the buisness no? I've never been somewhere where they refused to put up christmas trees. And if some job did, maybe its because there are lots of non christians there.
Or maybe because its a place of business, not a religious building.

Also, please stop using vulgarities.



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

The ressurection is the day Christians are supposed to remember.



Darkelf,it has been argued,even by some christians, that Easter is "pagan" as well. So...


[edit on 31-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]


I don't celebrate Easter (Ishtar) either. I said I remember ressurection day, which falls about 3 days after passover. I don't tell others that they shouldn't celebrate (and I joyfully accept the days off from work) it's just my beliefs.



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 09:37 PM
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I have a better idea: if these people don't like merry christmas then why don't they pack up and go back to where they came from.

I know a day not so long ago when nobody was offended by merry christmas and I want that day back.



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by denythestatusquo
I have a better idea: if these people don't like merry christmas then why don't they pack up and go back to where they came from.

Why the heck should they? Maybe the peopel that are so nutty about 'happy holidays' should pack up and go to a country where christmas celebrations are dominant.

If people don't want to live in a secular society, then they probably shouldn't be in the US.


I know a day not so long ago when nobody was offended by merry christmas and I want that day back.

ANd not so long before that day, no one even cared about christmas in the first place, and 'santa claus' didn't even exist.

The original european christmastime celebrations involved a harlequin and a guy with a bow and arrow chasing around some greasy guy wearing a goatskin around the town. They'd knock open people's doors and harrass them until they gave thema gift.

OH how I long for the old days of proper tradition!



AND it has NOTHING to do with jews or muslims or anyone else not liking christmas! They aren't complaining! People just figure 'why say merry christmas, this guy might celebrate hanukah, or diwalis or eid or whatever, I'll just make it easy by saying 'happy hollidays'
Its not enforced, its an option, and the vast majority of people seem to like it.

[edit on 31-10-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Mcphisto
So that means other faiths take offence to Merry Christmas?

Considering that you're taking offense at a non-religious general 'happy holidays' statement, I don't think you're in any position to criticize another faith even if it DID take offense at 'merry christmas'.

Also, what part of byrd's statement had anything to to do with others being insulted? Byrd's saying that people don't say 'merry christmas', because when they're actually wanting to give a greeting and good wishes to a person, they figure 'happy holidays' will be more sensible, since you don't know if anyone is a christian, jew, muslim, hindu, etc. So by saying 'happy holidays', they're accomplishing what they want to say. Saying 'merry christmas' to everyone is silly, since not everyone celebrates christmas.


So why are work places worried about putting up Christmas trees

Thats really up to the individual people at the buisness no? I've never been somewhere where they refused to put up christmas trees. And if some job did, maybe its because there are lots of non christians there.
Or maybe because its a place of business, not a religious building.

Also, please stop using vulgarities.


At what part did I say Byrd's statement had anything to do with insulting others? If you read it I am asking a question, notice the '?' mark?



Originally posted by Mcphisto
So that means other faiths take offence to Merry Christmas?


You may not have worked at such places but that does not mean they dont exist. What I am trying to get at here is that people are scared to offend muslims etc at the cost of christian 'christmas'. It was never like this 10 years ago! Or did Jews, Muslims, Sihks not exist then?

I think Byrd is right on everything he said, but I also believe religion is such a shaky ground that people are thinking they are better off leaving santa at home in case the lawyers come knocking for offending someone.

And sorry about the profanity



posted on Oct, 31 2006 @ 09:51 PM
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I taught everybody knew. The Grinch stole chrisstmas.

The political correct grinch. That bastard.

Well like posters have replied, nobody is stealing christmas from me, I will comtinue to uphold the tradition, untill my death and hopefully pass it onto my kids.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 09:50 PM
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Ok, seems some of you think the idea of Christmas is gone to make way for card producers to make more money, or to include all faiths under one card at the expense of Christian beliefs. Here is a article from Dr John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York. I think he knows what he is talking about dont you?

Archbishop attacks public atheism


In the Vancouver Province tody it writes about Dr Sentamu...


LONDON: A top cleric is taking aim at the "systematic erosion" of Christianity in British public life, citing among other things official refusal to acknowledge Christmas for fear of offending other faiths.

The Archbishop of York, John Sentamu, a leading official in the Church of England, objected to official government Christmas cards which merely wish "Seasons Greetings" as well as to Santa on stamps instead of Jesus Christ.

Speaking to church lay readers in the northern English city of Newcastle, Sentamu also complained that official documents now invite people to write their "first name" rather than "Christian name".

He criticised the decision by the local council in Plymouth, southern England, to end free parking on Sundays in case it offended people who worship on other days.

He cited the decision eight years ago by Birmingham City Council, in central England, to rename Christmas "Winterval" which was made to avoid offending others.

He said the then bishop of Birmingham Mark Santer led a campaign, backed by other faiths, to make the council change back. "But in the eight years since Winterval there have been many other instances and decisions where Christianity is being systematically eroded from public view," he said.



I wonder if he is wrong too?



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by denythestatusquo
I have a better idea: if these people don't like merry christmas then why don't they pack up and go back to where they came from.


Many come from right here in the good old USA!


And Mcphisto, you didn't answer my question asking who is preventing YOU (or anyone) from saying Merry Christmas or enjoying the holiday in the way that you see fit. It sounds more like you want to tell everyone else how to celebrate it and what to say...

It's an age old tactic of accusing your nemesis of what you're actually doing. :shk:



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 09:25 AM
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This year I think I'm going to send everyone a card featuring Stonehenge. It's about as Christmassy as you can get


Eh?

Yep - Stonehenge was built in alignment to the Winter Solstice. The Winter Solstice is the reason that Christians celebrate the birth of Christ on 25th December. Therefore Stonehenge = a symbol of Christmas



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 05:07 PM
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well

i know in the UNITED STATES it has something to do with the whole, seperation of church and state/first ammendment thing in the consistution

the united states has a clause that protects the nonreligious from all religions, and the religious from other religions



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And Mcphisto, you didn't answer my question asking who is preventing YOU (or anyone) from saying Merry Christmas or enjoying the holiday in the way that you see fit. It sounds more like you want to tell everyone else how to celebrate it and what to say...

It's an age old tactic of accusing your nemesis of what you're actually doing. :shk:


I didn t notice your question, but heres my answer. I shall enjoy Christmas in a good Christian style, Church before presents etc etc. Explain to my nipper what its all about, baby in the manger, 3 wise men etc. No-one is preventing me, my family or anyone else from enjoying Christmas, whatever religion! So this is my POINT, I am not asking anyone to tell me how to enjoy it, and I aint telling anyone else what to do. But I am asking why the PC brigade have taken religion out of a religious festival when no-one as complained about the festival to start with!

It may not be as bad where you live in the US, but if you lived in the UK you would know what I mean. PC this...PC that! You cant even be called old if your 96 for Gods sake!

And if I have the Archbishop of Canterbury agreeing with me, I cant be far off the mark can I?

Who knows, maybe your one of those Lesbian, one-armed, black, muslim, 96 yr old do-gooder we all got to be aware of when have a chat in the lunch room?



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Mcphisto
Why does everything have to be happy holidays now? Or Seasons greetings?

Why cant we have happy Christmas anymore? And to make me really mad is that I havent heard any Muslims complain (which is a wonder), the Chinese dont complain, Jews, Indians dont care. So who is it that decides we better not show Santa, dont put up Christmas trees, putting a baby Jesus in a stable is tantamount to a lawsuit!!

I dont mind the Chinese new year, the current Indian celebrations where they give out sweet things (cant remember name sorry) does not offend me, it adds to the culture I am surrounded by. Jewish holidays are well known and enjoyed, and I shop at meat shops where they sell Halal meats.

So who's taken my little boys Santa??? I'll wring thier bloody necks!!!!


ACLU

And other pansies that are to sensitive to have someone be to happy around them.. darn happiness.. ruins society..

I am agnostic, I say MERRY Christmas to everyone. you said happy Christmas HAHA funny. Like, Merry Birthday!



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 07:26 PM
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If you don't like it when someone says "Happy Holidays" to you this time of the year just say "Happy Easter to you too" or "Happy 4th of July". I started doing that a few years ago and it drives people NUTS.

mikell



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Mcphisto
Who knows, maybe your one of those Lesbian, one-armed, black, muslim, 96 yr old do-gooder we all got to be aware of when have a chat in the lunch room?


Ask your chat buddies about me.



Originally posted by Rockpuck
ACLU


What's the ACLU done? Got any links? I've looked and can't find anything they've done...



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 10:01 PM
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ACLU Hates Christmas
To be fair, the ACLUS's excuse is that we live in a country full of diverse people and we should greet each other diversely. Ahem. Kiss my
is the only greeting I give the ACLU!

www.lc.org...

www.newswithviews.com...

In high school a teacher was threatened with her job for putting a merry Christmas sign in the hall way.

Another ACLU supporting site, however.... they have decided that Christmas is no longer Christian and is secular, and that Christians should be happy to say happy hollidays to accomidate other people feelings. to hell with feelings.


I thought this rather funny..



Politically Correct Christmas Card

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.

In addition, please also accept our best wishes for a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2004, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make this country great (not to imply that this country is necessarily greater than any other country or area of choice), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual orientation of the wishers.

This wish is limited to the customary and usual good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first. "Holiday" is not intended to, nor shall it be considered, limited to the usual Judeo-Christian celebrations or observances, or to such activities of any organized or ad hoc religious community, group, individual or belief (or lack thereof).

Note: By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher at any time, for any reason or for no reason at all. This greeting is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. This greeting implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for the wisher her/himself or others, or responsibility for the consequences which may arise from the implementation or non-implementation of it.

This greeting is void where prohibited by law.

[url=http://www.nj1015.com/personalities/jim-gearhart/bits/pc-xmas-card.htm]http://www.nj1015.com/personalities/jim-gearhart/bits/pc-xmas-card.htm[/ur l]


I am terribly sorry Benevolent. I will never accept that ACLU does not support the "secularisation" of Christmas, which is a Christian Holiday, and there is NOTHING wrong with wishing someone a Merry Christmas.

Heck, we shouldn't have the 4th of July any more either.. since there is 11 million Mexicans it just isn't fair.



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 10:58 PM
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doesn't it seem rather strange for Christians to go on about how somebody is trying to take Santa Claus out of their religious holiday?

I mean, is that an Old Testament or a New Testament thing? The Gospel According to Santa Claus?

I've been to Christmas displays put up by deeply religious (so they claimed) Christians that had Santa Claus bowing down, quite reverently, beside a manger. While reindeer were quietly paying homage to the baby Jesus. Really? yes! This is what you want your kids to know about their religion?

Not my problem. I'm not a Christian and I don't have kids. Anybody can celebrate any day of the year in any way they want as long as no harm comes to anybody else. But, nobody should get offended that other people don't celebrate with them. And that, seems to be the biggest complaint of the Christian Right - not everyone wants to celebrate the Christian holidays so they claim that the world is going to hell and that they are being persecuted.

I didn't see any of you celebrating my birthday so, who should I complain to about that?



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
well

i know in the UNITED STATES it has something to do with the whole, seperation of church and state/first ammendment thing in the consistution

the united states has a clause that protects the nonreligious from all religions, and the religious from other religions


WRONG...it protects everyone's right to worship as they see fit, or not at all. it does not mean that one man can tell the whole country that they cannot pray before football games (for example) because it offends him.....but unfortunately the aclu, an organization whose sole purpose is to protect the constitution, has sold it soul to the liberals and managed to convince the supreme court that one man's freedom from religion outways the freedom of religion of millions of his peers. this was not the intention of the founding fathers, and an organization chartered to protect the constitution should realize that they are wiping their collective butts with said constitution.....but nobody seems to give a whoopty do, or even realize it.



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 11:31 PM
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I used to get upset by that being originally from Texas where 90 percent of my friends and families were Christian. Then I went to a University that was predominately Jewish and realized the season is even more interesting and uplifting when celebrated with multiple-faiths. I participated in the first night of Chanukah for 3 years with my Orthodox roommate and he came to Texas once with me for the holidays and even attended Christmas' Eve services with me and my very conservative Protestant family, it opened their eyes as well as his.

Call it PC if you want, I am Christian and #### proud of it, and I feel that the reason for the season is not division but coming together no matter what your faith. Christmas Turkey, Grits Casserole, with Latkas and Challah bread..... try that for a Christmas day dinner.

Edit: My family even appreciated him saying the Jewish blessing at Dinner in Hebrew, after we said our Christian grace. If my family can accept other faiths there's hope for everyone!

[edit on 13-11-2006 by Baphomet79]



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
How The ACLU Didn't Steal Christmas


You obviously didn't even read your links. Two of them disagree with what you're trying to say. Particularly the second and last ones. The first clearly states:



Of course, there is no "Merry Christmas" lawsuit, nor is there any ACLU litigation about U.S. currency, military chaplains, etc. But the facts are not important to these groups, because their real message is this: By protecting the freedom of Muslims, Jews, and other non-Christians through preventing government entanglement with religion, the ACLU is somehow infringing on the rights of those with majority religious beliefs.


And then there's: Christmas Message for the ACLU



I've been reading a great deal about various legal battles over Christmas and I must say that I haven't read anything that would support the above claims.
...
Do you see the pattern here? It's not, as Brewton claims, a systematic elimination of all things Christian but an elimination of complete and total Christian dominance of all things Christmas.
...
I can't think of a single thing wrong with this scenario. What are the chances that Brewton is just making things up?


The others are opinion pieces, like your own, based on nothing. I didn't ask for opinion pieces, I'm asking for factual evidence. I understand that that might not be important to you in your quest to make the ACLU the bad guy, but I encourage you to find out specifically what the ACLU is doing before hopping on the bandwagon without a shred of evidence to back up your position. It's only critical thinking. Lots of people are crying about the ACLU stealing Christmas, but I have yet to see any PROOF of this erroneous claim.


Originally posted by Rockpuck
I am terribly sorry Benevolent. I will never accept that ACLU does not support the "secularisation" of Christmas, which is a Christian Holiday, and there is NOTHING wrong with wishing someone a Merry Christmas.


Feel free to believe what you want, but if you have NO evidence to back it up, I'm not sure what you're complaining about.


Originally posted by snafu7700
the aclu ... managed to convince the supreme court


You're blaming a Supreme Court decision on the ACLU???
Blame the Supreme Court for their decision. They're not exactly a bunch of impressionable children, ready to be swayed by anyone's opinion. They're interpreting the laws.

And prayer at a football game has WHAT to do with Christmas?

The ACLU is only trying to give everyone equal rights as enumerated by the Constitution. Some people just don't want to share Christmas with anyone else. Too bad.



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