Prison Systems: Don't Make Me Leave!

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posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 09:16 AM
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After reading an article I was reminded of the movie: The Shawshank Redemption. For many prisoners who are set to be released from a lengthy prison stay, it can be very stressful. (Talking about the rehabilitated.) The people who have no inclination of ever commiting another crime. The prison system offers a man steady shelter with meals every day. They have a bed to sleep in every night with a shirt on their back. This alone puts them in greater living conditions than many on the outside.

I direct you to this article:



Freed inmate refuses to leave jail

BERLIN, Germany (Reuters) -- A 59-year-old German man who has spent the last 34 years in jail has turned down offers to be let out, an official said on Saturday.

"He rejected an offer to leave in 1992," Thomas Melzer, a spokesman for the Brandenburg state justice ministry, told Bild newspaper. "We can't do anything if someone sentenced to life in prison doesn't want to leave."

The man, identified only as Gerold H, was convicted of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment in 1972 when the area was part of communist East Germany.

German prisoners have no obligation to agree to leave jail before their sentences have been completed.


www.cnn.com... x.html


Now this man has openly refused to reenter society. He wishes to remain incarserated and enjoy the comfort level prison offers him. I am sure that this is a rare occurence, but I wonder how often prisoners who are released wish they could remain in prison.

Go and search for a definition of prison. Most times you will come across correctional institution. ...Yeah Right. Prisons are nothing more than a con college that prey at on the weak. Those lucky enough to survive the experience and actually become rehabilitated, face a possible harsher reality while on the outside.

Naive to think that a reformation of our prison systems would actually solve anything, but once a criminal, always a criminal isn't a term I'm willing to accept. I believe in the rehabilitation of individuals convicted of certain crimes. Rapists, Child Molestors, etc., are not grouped with criminals, they've lost all basic human rights in my opinion.

So looking back at this specific case, should the man be able to refuse to reenter society? Is it his choice to remain in prison? The argument can be made that he has not served his full sentence, since he was sentenced to life in prison. But what of the individuals who have completed their sentence, do they have the right to refuse freedom?

I don't see how they can remain in the prison systems and continue to have tax payers supporting them. I would not want them to be released to simply commit another crime to be sent back to prison, but I would like to think they should be obligated to contibute something to society.




posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 04:20 AM
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Nice find and interesting. I'm thinking this man received no training for an occupation, has not worked since he was 24, if then, and he hasn't been in the outside world for a long time, there would be many adjustments for him. Somehow, it doesn't seem fair to kick him out, if the prison system has not offered rehab. I'm not saying that prisoners deserve training, just that how can you expect a guy to stay straight if they have no job, no money, no home, etc. So maybe the prison could give him a job that doesn't require training, so that he could stay in prison but not cost the taxpayers anything. I don't know, that's a weird one. Some prisoners do become institutionalized if they've been in prison long enough, and they commmit another crime to get back in. It does seem easier to just let the person stay in prison rather than leave and commit another crime, costing the taxpayers yet more money.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 06:19 AM
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Insitutionalized vs. the Tax payers dollars.

The mans age is what is standing out more than anything. He is only 59. This guy could easily enjoy 20+ years of freedom on the outside. For many that is a lifetime in itself. Some efforts should be made to help this man adjust to life on the outside rather than continuing to rot in the prison system.

When a person is released on parole, are they helped with an apartment and a job? Not sure if they are granted one, but does anyone assist them with these struggles? I would certainly support a program that assisted parolees get settled on the outside. Anything that would help them reoffend.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 06:26 AM
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Please dont forget that they wanted to parole him earlier, his sentence is still life in prisonment and if he wants to serve the full time, then its his right to do so.

Personallly at that age having spent so long in prison, having missed so much in life (internet, handys etc) would he really stand a chance?



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 06:28 AM
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But he is only 59. I'm not denying the serious hump he would have to overcome. But surely we can appreciate the length of time he could enjoy on the outside. He rejected freedom in 1992, and has served almost 15 years since then. So it should be suffice to say the man will die in the prison system, but it is unfortunate in my opinion because he could still live a life on the outside.

If the system was organized to help parolees adjust on the outside, they might be more willing to leave and less likely to reoffend.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 06:50 AM
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Prison is not a comfortable place to be. My ex-husband has been in prison several times and I've even visited him while incarcerated. It's not a nice place.

For awhile, I was a member of an online email group for women whose loved ones were incarcerated. It's difficult for the women as well, knowing there is not much they can do to make life easier for their loved ones who are incarcerated. All they can do is talk by phone occasionally, visit occasionally and exchange cards and letters.

If you ever watch any of the "Lockup" series on MSNBC, it really shows how bad most of these guys have it.

Some people will adjust to life inside and feel that they simply cannot succeed on the outside. I think it's rare though. If someone recognizes that they're better off not being released, then why should we force them?

Some prison systems have programs that assist newly released prisoners obtain employment and housing on the outside but I think those are in the minority. They are run on a state-by-state basis.

My ex-husband was able to participate in an educational program to help him deal with anger management, self-control and substance abuse. Some of it has helped him a bit and I can see some difference in his attitude and his actions, but he needs much more help and now that he's out, he's on his own.

I feel that assistance programs should be mandatory for newly released prisoners, but sometimes I wonder if our government prefers that these people re-offend and become incarcerated again so they can just keep them out of society. What do they care if innocent people die? To them, it may be just another form of population control.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 06:54 AM
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"If the system was organized to help parolees adjust on the outside, they might be more willing to leave and less likely to reoffend."

Well the German Government does not have that much money so im not too sure as to what he could expect on the outside.
If lucky he might get an appartment paid by the social services, if not he could expect to live on the street. Unemployment benefits would not be paid as he hasnt worked and paid into the system. Harz 4? If lucky he could expect maybe 345€ a month in Benefits if at all.


What would you do? I sure would stay in Prison.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 10:30 AM
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What would I do? I would take freedom anyday. But I can understand why a prisoner may become to dependent on the way of life, that anything else would be horrific. Prisoners have everything issued to them, they live a very structured life. They are told when to eat, when to sleep, when to work or exercise. On the outside, these are all decisions that we can make on our own.

If the man is granted freedom, is it right that the taxpayers are responsible to support him even though he should be out contributing his own share? Sure he does have a life sentence that he can say he wishes to serve, but he has been offered parole.

This issue has some serious grey area on whether or not he should be obligated to leave, but what about a man who has completed his sentence. Would it be mandatory for him to leave?



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 10:45 AM
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I do believe that when the sentence is over you will be released.Why would they keep you longer then the sentence ?



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 11:06 AM
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If a person has completed their sentence, and they refuse to exit the prison. What would be done? Permit him to leave and reoffend? I understand the simplicity to the scenario, but I don't find much of a difference in this scenario. This man should be free, but he decides not to leave. The taxpayers continue to give up their dollars for a free man to remain in prison.

A man may feel institutionalized, but these are problems he can overcome.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 11:24 AM
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Even though there might be a high probability that a prisoner will committ another crime to get back in, we can't automatically assume that this is definitely going to happen.

If someone has served their sentence, then they get kicked out, period. It's up to the ex-con what they do with the rest of their lives, not the taxpayers.

Maybe prisons should have some sort of program for gradually getting prisoners who have been incarcerated a long time used to the idea of freedom. Before they are actually released. Something that prepares them for life on the outside.

[edit on 23-10-2006 by elaine]



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by elaine
If someone has served their sentence, then they get kicked out, period It's up to the ex-con what they do with the rest of their lives, not the taxpayers.


So does a prisoner have the right to refuse parole?



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 11:29 AM
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If he feels that he can't adjust, might comitt another crime and has more of his original sentence left to do. I say yes he can.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by chissler

Originally posted by elaine
If someone has served their sentence, then they get kicked out, period It's up to the ex-con what they do with the rest of their lives, not the taxpayers.


So does a prisoner have the right to refuse parole?


You have to apply for parole. If you don't apply you don't get it. Nothing to refuse. That's in Canada of course.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
You have to apply for parole. If you don't apply you don't get it. Nothing to refuse. That's in Canada of course.


Yeah the case I have discussed above is in Germany. The man rejected his parole in 1992, and now again recently.



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 01:44 AM
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Here's a little anecdotal testimony from an ex-con.

I spent 8 yrs. in federal prison after a few months in the Texas state system.
In my time I knew of 3 men who intentionally committed crimes to come back to prison because they didn't want to be in the 'free world'. They had all been in 20+ years and from a very young age. One threw a brick through a post office window because he knew it carried 5 years and that was what his lover had left on his sentence. He ended up in a different prison. For these guys who get alot of time when very young, they know nothing else. They've grown up in prison and it's really their whole world. They are someone in prison. They know their place and are known and respected. In the free world they are dirt and must bow and scrape just to get by. There is no one to help these people adjust, only people to demand and threaten. Release after long term imprisonment is difficult and scary for everyone. It was for me and I had the wonderful support of a loving family. For people with no one it can be almost impossible. It's total culture shock, and half-way houses are just a joke.

There are plenty of innocent people in prison, as DNA tests are proving every day, and there are also plenty of people who need to be there forever, because they are just plain evil. There are also plenty who belong in a mental health facility, but aren't there because there's a profit to be made from them in the prison industries (yes there's slave labor in the USA).

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I hear so many misconceptions about prison that I'd be glad to answer any questions.



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by chissler
Insitutionalized vs. the Tax payers dollars.

The mans age is what is standing out more than anything. He is only 59. This guy could easily enjoy 20+ years of freedom on the outside. For many that is a lifetime in itself. Some efforts should be made to help this man adjust to life on the outside rather than continuing to rot in the prison system.

When a person is released on parole, are they helped with an apartment and a job? Not sure if they are granted one, but does anyone assist them with these struggles? I would certainly support a program that assisted parolees get settled on the outside. Anything that would help them reoffend.


In most systems you get a 20 year old set of clothes and enough money to catch a bus back to the city you were busted in. If you're on supervised release (like parole) you may be lucky enough to find a half-way house that will take you until you can get a job and a place of your own. If you've done your time day for day and aren't on paper, it's just clothes, a little money and good bye.



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by chissler
What would I do? I would take freedom anyday. But I can understand why a prisoner may become to dependent on the way of life, that anything else would be horrific. Prisoners have everything issued to them, they live a very structured life. They are told when to eat, when to sleep, when to work or exercise. On the outside, these are all decisions that we can make on our own.

If the man is granted freedom, is it right that the taxpayers are responsible to support him even though he should be out contributing his own share? Sure he does have a life sentence that he can say he wishes to serve, but he has been offered parole.

This issue has some serious grey area on whether or not he should be obligated to leave, but what about a man who has completed his sentence. Would it be mandatory for him to leave?


The answer is absolutely yes. When your time is up, you're out the door. I heard of one guy who put up a fight when they tried to make him leave. He wanted to get another charge by assaulting a guard, but they knew what he was up to and didn't charge him. He was an older, well liked guy (very shawshank like) so they cuffed him, put him in a state cruiser and drove him to the halfway house. A female counselor there of similar age took a liking to him and a rare storybook ending resulted.

Lots of guys refuse parole because they know that they won't be able to make it under supervision so they just don't bother. If you go out on parole and then come back, and go out and come back, it ends up taking you much longer to serve out your sentence. Better for these types to just do their time day for day, and then be free (until their next beef). These guys are typically dopers who know they'll be dirty for the pee tests (hell, they're dirty in prison).



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