There is not one spec of fool-proof-proof in the entire world

Every shred of proof of et's or ufo's demands faith.

There is not one bit of evidence in the entire world that would hold water in court that proves aliens or ufos are real.


But people are demanding proof in the form of pictures because they can put faith in pictures.

They can't put faith in their fellow man who says he saw a ufo or alien, but they can put faith in pictures which cannot stand up in court.

So they are religious people whose faith is in technology and pictures, even though those pictures have been proven false over and over again.

Also it's obvious the aliens are ahead of us in time. So they know if proof is about to surface long before it does surface, and they can take measures to prevent it from surfacing. Therefore any proof that does turn up only does so because they plant it, or else they allow it to slip through the net.


So all the evidence we have of the alien/ufo phenomena are peoples testimonies and pictures which are easily debunked one way or the other.

I know aliens and ufos are real, but there's no way I or anyone can prove they exist beyond reasonable doubt.

It all takes faith. Faith in your fellow man/woman and/or faith in pictures.





[edit on 22-10-2006 by probedbygrays]

For instance. I was visited by some blue uniformed aliens who did some amazing things I won't go into. Then a few days later I woke up to a dream of an aliens face. I wasn't sure what that was about but I went about my daily routine until noontime when I sat down to read a book. But now on the cover of my book there was the face of the alien. It was like a small photograph had been somehow added to the cover. And at first it was quite clear but it became smaller and is now 1/4 inch wide. I tried scanning it but the scanner doesn't capture it clearly because of its size, color and complex facial features. So I would need to get some type of magnifying scanner to capture the alien's face clearly. But what would be the point? Folks would just say it was a hoax etc. It sure doesn't prove I was visited by aliens does it?

If I said I was visited by aliens some would believe and some wouldn't.

If I produced a clear photograph of the alien's face that is on my book, some would believe and some wouldn't.

So where does it end?

It's all in an individual person's faith until the aliens actually go public.

[edit on 21-10-2006 by probedbygrays]

I'd believe the persons testimony as long as its backed up with a logical explanation to extraterrestial existance. No hard proof required. But you question why we need proof and that its not nessesary, well it is. We can't be gullable and believe everything someone claims they've had contact. If it were like that today, we'd still question you to no end from those who havent experienced the unexplainable. We need hard evidense that proves there claims, so it confirms they are telling the truth from there own mind; within that is allegable to lie.

You mention it takes faith, well where will faith take us? It doesn't give us an answere; but within our mind to develop a trust or belief. Faith isn't enough. We need proof. If they can't show up all over the citys and other means we all wish would happen because of there enormous logic that tells them its not nessesary, then we aren't meant to see them with evidence. If so, we will always be comfused and frustrated. We are made to require faith and proof alongside.

I do have faith in most UFO claims. Now im just waiting for them to make there move.

[edit on 22-10-2006 by 7Ayreon]

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Every shred of proof of et's or ufo's demands faith.

There is not one bit of evidence in the entire world that would hold water in court that proves aliens or ufos are real.

I hate to burst you're bubble, but there are a lot of things that there is no proof for, but yet people keep believing in them.

RE:Foolproof proof.
You are not mentioning radar evidence which verify hundreds of thousands of separate group witnessed events.
Radar corrlelation does stand up in court and is scientificaly impartial and objective.
Radar confirmation shows seemingly intelligently controlled objects travelling at incredible speeds(sometimes 100s of knots per second) and also displaying completely unprecedented flight characteristics (like right angle turns and immediate stops) and aerial manouverability.
That UFOs exist is undeniable,just indentifying them is the issue.
Circumstantial evidence alone on this subject is enough to warrant an impartial study but when scientific verification such as radar is introduced it takes all but the most bone headed cynic not realise this subject is based in reality.
Faith is beleiving things without evidence,factual evidence has existed for this phenomenon in the form of radar corellation since its conception in world war 1.
Cheers Karl

Radar images are good evidence for something being out there, but in another sense they are the same as photos of ufos, they can be explained away as some other type of phenomenon or a trick of some kind. They're not proof that can stand up in court that spaceships or flying saucers etc are real. Of course they are enough proof for people with a little faith that such things are real. But they are not proof to the people who own the airforce etc. They will tell you it's just unknown radar phenomenon or something, not spaceships or flying saucers etc.

Of course a ufo can be a plastic bag floating through the sky so I should have said spaceships or flying saucers instead of ufos.

I've seen flying saucers and other ufos, and my son was followed by a black triangular ufo one night. He was very young and had no reason to lie. So I'm not a person who doubts spaceships etc are real. All I'm saying is there is no proof that will stand up in court that aliens and their craft exist.

I'm being asked repeatedly to produce proof of the ufos and aliens I've encountered, when no one in the entire world has ever been able to produce totally verifiable proof of such things that could stand up in court.

I'm satisfied that I have met real aliens and seen their craft etc, but I don't expect anyone to believe my accounts. Still it is my responsibility to tell people what I have experienced so they can perhaps be somewhat prepared when the aliens appear in their lives.

I hope people will look for ufos and try to make contact with the aliens one way or another to see for themselves if they are real. That's the only way to really prove to yourself that these beings are real. Because every bit of proof or account that is handed to you by someone else can be explained away one way or another.

What I'm trying to say is 'the only real proof is seeing these things for yourself'. Then people may hassle you for proof and maybe call you a liar but it won't matter to you because you know what you saw.

[edit on 22-10-2006 by probedbygrays]

Originally posted by probedbygrays
All I'm saying is there is no proof that will stand up in court that aliens and their craft exist.

And yet you believe. Amazing.

I congratulate you, sir. You're the first UFO / alien enthusiast I've ever heard of who's honest enough to admit the truth -- belief in UFOs is essentially religious in character.

Mankind has always had its sky gods; UFOs and aliens are just the latest manifestations of this archetype.

Determining the reality of UFOs/aliens in a court is absurd but you're flat out wrong that certain proof wouldn't be accepted. 1st hand witness testimony is certainly admissible as evidence - Especially from police officers, rescue workers, military officers etc... In fact their word is good enough to get someone executed so I'm not sure what you mean ?

Also don't obfuscate the issue claiming there is a "lack of proof" when there is plenty of evidence UFOs/aliens are real.

Schaden I couldnt agree more.Sworn eyewitness tesimony from extremely credible, professional witnesses is alone enough to get you arrested (and executed)in the US and other countries.Add to this multiple radar corrlations and ground reading trace evidence and it would more than prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there is an element of truth to this subject
I think when people confuse this subject with faith they are guilty of lazy prejudice.They have not actively ,impartialy investigated this matter in any way and instead chose just to assume its not real.
Faith means beleiving things without evidence ,there is mountains of good quality evidence for this subject (to the objective person) and whilst it is not proof,goes a long way to show why many governments ,organisations and rational people take this subject seriously.
As for UFO cynics,they are about as far away from impartiality and objectivity as a person can be. Their mindset is 'UFOs just cant be real'.They rarely bring anything to the table other than cynicism,prejudice and complete ignorance.This is wholly non scientific and impedes serious ,rational debate on the matter.
Cheers Karl

Yes but that's what we have with religions. People who can testify that angels and demons really did appear and leave some evidence behind. They are credible witnesses according to the societies they lived in at the time, but nowadays they would be mocked in a court room by expensive lawyers.

Jung explained how UFOs are created from our subconscious and his ideas can be used to debunk any sighting, even when that sighting leaves evidence behind. Because the mind is so powerful it can create material changes in our surroundings.

Also we have mass hallucinations to account for. Throughout history masses of people saw sailing ships flying through the sky, and big angels in the skies and all types of sightings of little people etc etc.

In courts they may have been accepted as telling the truth, but nowadays with so much interest in UFOs and aliens all it takes is scientists and some professionals to prove the witnesses saw something else entirely.

I believe 100% in aliens and their craft. I actually saw two huge craft recently. But photos are not proof. My testimony is not proof. A group of witnesses is not proof. I mean 'Real scientific cold hard Proof of real aliens and their craft.

Every bit of proof can be explained away in one way or another by scientists and professionals.

So it all boils down to the old adage 'beauty is in the eyes of the beholder', although in this case it is 'Truth is in the eyes of the beholder'.

So what we have is a faith based religion.

If you look at the person who sees the most UFOs and captures them on film, (Prophet Yahweh), you 'll see he is a preacher who believes the UFOs are of God. So he is able to produce UFOs with faith alone.

Stop defending yourself and start telling people the simple truth when they get antsy. Simply say, "I cannot prove what i'm telling you but it's important for me to say what I believe. Whether you take it or leave it is up to you."

I understand where you are coming from. I was driving alone down the highway one night when I saw a Bigfoot. Saw it bigger than Dallas with my own two eyes. I tried to tell people and they'd say, "I believe you saw SOMETHING. and i'd tell them, "It wasn't something, it was a (expletive deleted) Bigfoot!"

I can't prove I saw one. I no longer even try. I did see a Bigfoot and I tell the story to those that will listen and if they believe me thats fine. If they don't believe me thats fine too. I no longer care if they believe or not.

What I care about is sharing the story.

They can take from it what they will....

Love and light,

[edit on 22-10-2006 by mrwupy]

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Every bit of proof can be explained away in one way or another by scientists and professionals.

So it all boils down to the old adage 'beauty is in the eyes of the beholder', although in this case it is 'Truth is in the eyes of the beholder'.

Not true, looking through your posts I see two ways for you to prove some of your claims...here are two direct quotes from your postings on ATS recently.

Originally posted by probedbygrays
The grays taught me exactly how to create cyborg droids. I was going to start a thread about it.

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Last night the aliens gave me an invention that is worth billions!

I'm sure you would love to provide whatever proof you could to help the members of this forum accept your word as truth. I know if I was in your position I would be chomping at the bit to provide proof of what has happened to me.

Now I realize the detailed instructions you received from the aliens on how to build a cyborg droid must be thousands of pages long considering the complexity. Please provide one or two pages of the instructions for our review. If the instruction are simply in your head please write two pages out for us. If you worry about providing the detailed instructions simply leave important segments out.

You also say that aliens gave you an important invention. Saying an invention means that it's a physical object. Please provide several photos of the device. Knowing that this device is alien technology there is no doubt that humans upon looking at it would not know what it was intended for so there should be no issues with providing the photos.

I have no doubt that you are really excited to hear that there is a way you can substantiate some of your claims and I'm happy I could point out how. So please, do one or bout of the following...

• Provide two pages of instructions on how to create an cyborg droid
  
  
  
• Post a photo of the device that was given to you.

Thank you...

Originally posted by mrwupy
Stop defending yourself and start telling people the simple truth when they get antsy. Simply say, "I cannot prove what i'm telling you but it's important for me to say what I believe. Whether you take it or leave it is up to you."

I understand where you are coming from. I was driving alone down the highway one night when I saw a Bigfoot.

I thought it was common knowledge that we are all here because we want to share our thoughts and experiences. And I'm trying to point out that no one can prove beyond doubt that what they saw is precisely what they think it was.

You're fortunate to have seen a Bigfoot. When I first came to this town there was a woman who saw a Bigfoot at night when she was driving home and turned into her street. It was just standing in the middle of the street and was fully lit by her headlights before it ran off.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Provide two pages of instructions on how to create an cyborg droid


Post a photo of the device that was given to you.

Thank you...

The information on how to create a cyborg is very complex and would take me a long time to articulate. It's really information that scientists should have. However it is still not proof of aliens or anything as scientists can just say that I thought of it myself or read it in a book somewhere? It's not proof.

They showed me a picture of an ingenious device that will make me a rich man if I can produce and market it. They didn't actually give me one of the devices that I could photograph for you. And I also explained that I can't share that information because someone would market it before me. When I market it I'll say the idea came from the aliens. Some will believe and some won't I guess.

[edit on 22-10-2006 by probedbygrays]

I think that we should all remember that if there are in fact ETs visiting the Earth, the reason there is no fool-proof-proof is entirely their fault.

I surmise that if they are real, they are actively attempting to avoid significant contact and official recognition while still doing whatever they are doing. And they are not telling us anything.

Alien coverup? Aliens to blame, front and center.

I think that's rather rude of them.

Originally posted by probedbygrays
The information on how to create a cyborg is very complex and would take me a long time to articulate.

No doubt it would be very complicated and take some effort but we have time so please provide one or two pages.

Originally posted by probedbygrays
They showed me a picture of an ingenious device that will make me a rich man if I can produce and market it. They didn't actually give me one of the devices that I could photograph for you.

Oh well, that changes things, or at least your story is changing. When you said "Last night the aliens gave me an invention that is worth billions!" I assumed the aliens gave you an invention.

Anyone in your position would love for the opportunity to prove or at least try to provide evidence to support their claims. I can't wait to see what you provide now that we know it's possible.

There is no reasonable doubt that UFO's and the beings who fly them do exist. People get sent to death row for less evidence than there is for U.F.O.'s. With U.F.O.'s you have both direct and circumstantial evidence. You have direct evidence from Presidents, military people, police officers, astronauts and well respected people in different communities. Many of these people have no motive to lie, some of them have to be convinced to even talk about it. You have circumstantial evidence with cave paintings, ancient manuscripts, paintings, pictures and video. Throughout the history of mankind we have recorded these things. What people who know that these things exists allow skeptics to do, is demand evidence that's outside of reason. They ask for some super duper evidence and that makes no sense. All you need is your God given reason to know that these things exists. Skeptics want a U.F.O. to land in there front yard and they still will convince themselves that they don't exists. People fear what they can't understand. This is why skeptics have to debate you outside of reason. Within reason there's no other answer. When you take all the evidence and put it together, only belief will stop you from seeing the truth. No matter if your belief system is a certain religion or atheism. You then add on science and extra dimensions, the multiverse and warped passages and you begin to see how an advanced civilization tha's millions of years ahead of us in evolution can be visiting this planet.

Originally posted by kinglizard

No doubt it would be very complicated and take some effort but we have time so please provide one or two pages.


Oh well, that changes things, or at least your story is changing. When you said "Last night the aliens gave me an invention that is worth billions!" I assumed the aliens gave you an invention.

Anyone in your position would love for the opportunity to prove or at least try to provide evidence to support their claims. I can't wait to see what you provide now that we know it's possible.

Your problem is you're taking everything out of context and placing it in a context that suits you. I originally said I was not going to start a thread about cyborg creation. But now you are demanding the information anyway. Too bad.

Also the thread where I said I was given an invention is a thread about information streams from the aliens. The invention I was given came in the form of information. I thought that would be clear since the thread was where we were discussing alien information only.

So you're taking things out of context and demanding information that I originally stated I was not prepared to give under these circumstances.

=======================================

You know what. All this demanding of proof in the form of photographs etc doesn't prove a thing to the real skeptics. The ONLY real proof is personal experience.

Having millions of people walking around with rolling cameras strapped on their heads etc is not the answer because it makes the aliens more evasive and the skeptics and hoaxers will have a field day debunking it all.

The only way to approach the aliens to gain proof is to meet them yourself and see how real they are. Then you will have the proof you are looking for. You won't be able to give that proof to other people because the skeptics will automatically popup and prove your proof false.

So the demand for proof should be a personal journey to meet the aliens face to face. Not a demand that others provide photos and information for you of their experiences.


Photos won't make true believers. Nothing but personal experience will convince a person 100% that aliens are real.

Originally posted by polomontana
No matter if your belief system is a certain religion or atheism. You then add on science and extra dimensions, the multiverse and warped passages and you begin to see how an advanced civilization tha's millions of years ahead of us in evolution can be visiting this planet.

Well there are countless people put to death by corrupt regimes and priests etc too. Being put to death is not proof that the evidence is factual.

Also the hoaxers just have to produce identical phenomenon to prove all the evidence is suspect. And now they have come up with the theory that the government is producing aliens in their labs. So even when spaceships and aliens eventually show up in public people will say, "Oh look, there's those new government mutants and the government created flying ships etc". They still won't have to believe that real aliens exist.

Originally posted by probedbygrays

I know aliens and ufos are real, but there's no way I or anyone can prove they exist beyond reasonable doubt.

It all takes faith. Faith in your fellow man/woman and/or faith in pictures.

In all honesty, PBG, I can truly understand your frustration and quandary here; yet, as you clearly state, there is No irrefutable proof which would withstand nor be deemed confirmation of such.

All the while the "beat" goes on. I said, he said, she said or saw.

Until such time that irrefutable "proof" Positive is presented, this debate will continue.

One person's Faith and/or Belief, no matter how "concrete" in their mind, is yet another's happenstance and or conjecture.

I've read and heard mention that only when an extra-terrestrial craft lands on the White House grounds, will those who disbelieve believe. Unfortunately, even if that ever came to be, there would still be those who would question the existence thereof.

In the meantime, Yes, it is a matter of "FAITH".

To put such into perspective, there are Countless Religions and Beliefs throughout the world. None of which are Universally accepted, supported nor recognized.

Considering the above How can any one individual expect that their view(s) holds more weight or prominence than another's?

$.02

? thoughts ?

Indeed you have come up with many reasons why you cannot possibly show some simple evidence when clearly you are able (if your story is true). It’s within the realm of reason to ask…don’t you think.

I’m taking nothing out of context as you claim. I have very simply and accurately quoted what you have stated in this forum and pointed out ways you can provide evidence. It seems you didn’t like my suggestions as you are becoming quite defensive.

If this is all true then why will you not provide a page or so in the instructions you have received?

So we are all clear I will quote you again:

Originally posted by probedbygrays
The grays taught me exactly how to create cyborg droids. I was going to start a thread about it.

This is wonderful; we have a way for you to provide evidence. When I asked for you to post a page or two from the instruction set you received you said the following:

Originally posted by probedbygrays
The information on how to create a cyborg is very complex and would take me a long time to articulate.

When I said we have time to wait for you to piece together some information for us you said:

Originally posted by probedbygrays
Too bad.

So it’s “too bad”, err yeah right, whatever.

Even though you said you can provide a couple pages of instructions you say “too bad”. So I guess the title of this thread should be “I’m not willing to provide any evidence of my claims”.

No more excuses though I’m sure you will find many more.

Lets boil It down:

You said you have the ability to provide evidence in this discussion and you now say that you refuse to provide that evidence.



[edit on 22-10-2006 by kinglizard]