British Civil War

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posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 07:16 PM
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I'm not sure where this thread should be posted because its kinda involving a few different areas, so i'll place it here.

I live in the UK. Born and raised British. I'm 24 and white.

This thread is about the concern I have for the current unpleasant atmosphere spreading this land I call home.
Never have I felt such strong emotions building over the racial issues presented as we sit now. Granted thats more to do with my age than actual race relations, however I can't help but worry about what is happening.

As I sit here, I feel a huge weight on me.
I believe that unless something changes very soon, the tension of this great nation is going to snap and we will be faced by a Civil War.
It saddens me that a country that protects the free can have so much anger and hatred aimed towards a section of society, a section of our society at that, yet in the current climate we are seeing everyday people openly showing a racism I had naively hoped had disappeared.
Today, for instance.
As I sat, watching TV in my parents house, I picked up 'The Sun' newspaper(I know I know) to read the article regarding a Teacher who was suspended because she chose to wear a Veil.
As i'm reading, my own mother, someone who I had always respected, turned to me and said some of the most hateful words i've ever heard from her.
I shan't repeat them verbatim, however they were racial slurs followed by the almost mandatory 'go back to her own country'.
This shocked me.
I turned to her and said that I was appalled by this then suggested that it was very likely this teacher was British, more than likely born here.
At this point my father, again someone i'd always believed at the very least tolerant, sided with my mother and said 'if she wanted the luxuries of this country then she should abide by our rules as a C of E country'. Then stated the adage 'When in Rome'.
In the past, we have had heated discussions, but this one, I have to say angered me.
I hate discrimination of any kind but to hear my own parents say these things, well it sickened me.
I needed to get away from them before things were said that could not be ignored so I went to the City Center.
As i got on the Bus, I started noticing something.
I live in an area that has people of many differing cultures, beliefs, religions and such. On the bus at the front sat an Asian Lady and next to her, another lady wearing a veil.
I don't know if it was intentional or not, but the seats surrounding these two women were empty. I sat behind them and over my back I could hear people talking. The things that were being said were vile. I looked slightly to see who were making the comments to see 4 people all different ages.
One of the men, I would put him at about 26, then shouted 'Aren't ya going to take that scarf off, I wanna see if you are f**kable'.
I was disturbed by this, but as the women ignored it, I decided to do the same.
The group started laughing loudly and one of the guys even stood up and walked towards the women.
As he arrived his pelvis was at her head height and I watched as he used the motion of the bus as an excuse to keep pushing himself in her face.
I was repulsed. I was angry.
And I wasn't going to let it continue.
I stood up(i'm a pretty big guy) and positioned myself next to the guy.
I then put my hand on his shoulder and asked him to move.
He stared at me for a moment then laughed in my face.
I told him that he had less than a minute to sit back down or he'd be getting off.
His friends started to get up at this time so I pulled out my phone and made it clear that I intended to call the police.
This got through to them luckily but as they sat down, I again her the mandatory 'if they don't like it they should f**k off home.'
Long story short(ish) the guys got off the bus a few stops later and the women stayed on after me.

Point is, this is happening more frequently.
People are forming groups that are deeper and stronger than ever before.
Its starting to worry me that, unless some thing great happens soon, of which I don't know, then this will erupt in the worst kind of way.
I would say 'God Help Us' but alot of people here don't believe that the Messiah will come and unite mankind.

So, I was wondering your thoughts on this

Thank you for reading my ramble.




posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 07:34 PM
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nice post.

This sums up pretty much what is happening more and more in the UK.

To be honest, its been boiling for a while, and is pretty much at flashpoint here. The biggest problem being the media, and the way (sadly) it has so much influence in the way people think and act. There is a percentage of the population that do belive anything thats written in the Sun or broadcast on Sky TV.

Like i said in a previous post, its nothing new. Exactly that same thing with the Catholic and Prodestant divide has been going on in Ireland/Scotland for many years, with people being kneecapped or killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. One of the reasons that the Scottish Executive started a zero tollerance on racisim campaign.

The biggest problem is apethy, how many people see this going on, walk past it and laugh or do nothing about it? The problem is most people now don't want to get involved, or feel afraid for their lives.

Im not sure how much of this is really a problem of race-relations, and how much of it is going to be down to the same types of people that quite happily mug old ladies on the train. The bigger issue, is how many people are going to walk past it happening, because they feel the woman in question should not be wearing a veil?

On the whole i think that most people would "do the right thing" and stop such incidents taking place, but on the other hand the media are giving the NEDS and CHAVS a new shopping list.



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 07:44 PM
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Thank You for posting.
1 Day ago, I would possibly come to the same conclusion as you regarding 'most people doing the right thing', heck 12 hours ago I would have, but the hate that I heard from my own parents told me this is more than what i've experienced in the past.
I've always known that they were tolerant of others, not much more but after the way they spoke today, honestly, i'm not sure they would do the right thing.
You have to understand that the moment you question people you know and care about, then that really makes you think there is something happening.

The problem is the Media, but then that falls back to us. Its the vicious cycle of they print, we read. If we are not informed of something we accuse them of hiding the truth SO they print because we make them.

This country has not been this bad for a while now and it is only getting worse.

The thing that saddens me more is that should some form of 'Civil Disturbance' occur then this thing isn't just going to separate races, religions and such, its going to tear apart families. I for one cannot agree with my parents stance on this and if there was issue, we would be on opposite sides. Knowing my brothers as I do, they too would be on my parents side.
This is what will happen to us all.



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 07:48 PM
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unless there is something done to nip this in the bud, i agree with you there is only one place that this can lead -

Martial Law.



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by ewan
unless there is something done to nip this in the bud, i agree with you there is only one place that this can lead -

Martial Law.



Thank you again for posting



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 08:12 PM
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I think it all comes down to integration - for whatever reason, the consensus in the '70s and 80's, and probably up to 9/11 and certainly 7/7 was for multiculturalism - probably at some subconcious level a reaction against British 'imperialism' in the 19th century. This contrasts with the French model where you 'become French' at the expense of anything else.

However, as this article states - way more eloquently that I ever could, maybe we've gone too far the other way, and the French are, to an extent correct to be unapologetically, well, French:

britain v france

I think, in our typically cringing British way, we've thrown out the baby with the bathwater and failed to admit that there is some sort of obligation for immigrants to integrate to an extent with the host society. It's certainly strange to hear Labour politicans starting to think along these lines!

brown

Can you imagine a Labour politician saying something like that in the 80s? He'd probably have been expelled!

I think the big question is whether or not it is now 'too late to integrate', as there are people who have been born in the UK who feel no cultural, moral or national obligations to this country. These same people can't 'go back to where they came from', becuase they're from.....here. How will they feel, being told that they are British, but frankly, not British enough?

There was one shining example of multiculturalism in Europe. Unfortunately, it was called Yugoslavia.

In a sense, I find the whole thing quite depressing. As much as we deny it, I think that in general we judge each other on the amount of melanin we have in our skin rather than on how decent we are as human beings.

TD



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 08:37 PM
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i dont think its really down to the colour of skin as much anymore (although with some people it is)
but in more general terms, how different person a is from person b.

Generally if you are from the UK, you don't know anything about the muslim faith, unless you have come across it at some point in your life. Speaking from personal experience, i didn't know anything about it until i started working with a muslim. Since then, i have learned a great deal about it, and have been to musilm weddings, Eed celebrations etc.

The one thing i did notice, is like anyone else the Muslims i have met are human also, they lie about things and they also don't always follow the religion to the letter (in some cases far from it). But the one thing they all had in common, is when they are together they are all very "false". People that would normally eat bacon sandwitches, all of a sudden switch into religious mode, especially with the parents around!

It seems that in these circles, the opinion of others, parents in particular is very important to them, and the ones i have met, frequently choose which bits or the religion are appropriate to them to fit the enviroment they are in at the time.

I can think of one example, who travelled to Mecca, carried his relative through the crowds in Mecca, next week he is dancing his ass off in a club in London, doing various substances, and chatting up as many women as he can get his hands on.

This is not a dig at the Muslim faith, but my experience, point being the are normal human beings with exactly the same failings as any other human being.

Where it is all falling down, is where the holier than thou brigade, are charging full on into the sky "lets ban muslims from the uk" media brigade, and flash points are going to start.

What needs to happen, is the Muslim's that are pushing their agenda and the anti-muslim's who are pushing their agendas need a little wake up call, and see exactly where this is taking us all.

I think its going to take the "average joe" in the uk to wake up to this an slap both sides firmly across the face and say, you know what.... i live here too and im not standing for this rubbish.



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 09:26 PM
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I don't know you or your parents, but I'd say that maybe you need to cut them a little slack on this one. This issue with the veil has upset a lot of people, and when two sides disagree on something so heated, it's bound to bring out the worst in us. Pride in one's country is often misinterpreted as racism.

The incident on the bus was nothing but the actions of an uncouth lout. His parting remarks were only meant to hurt because his position was indefensible. I would venture a guess that he acts that way around a lot of people, not only muslims.

Just my .02.



posted on Oct, 21 2006 @ 02:24 AM
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I don't think it will come to civil war. There was a lot more overt racism around in the seventies... if you ever come across a sitcom called "Love Thy Neighbour" (which has not-so-mysteriously disappeared because of its blatant racist jokes) you'll know what I mean.

However, you're right about the demonisation of Muslims in the media. Recently, the largest ever explosives cache was discovered in the UK. Have you heard about that? Not likely (although I think there might have been a thread on it here). The guy who had it was a BNP candidate, not a Muslim. I think if it had been a Muslim we'd have heard all about it.

The veil issue is one I find very difficult. On the one hand I think people should be allowed to do what they want, and on the other hand I personally find it demeans women and is a really overt sign of separation. I would far rather be able to see the face of the person I'm talking to. At what point do we say, this is not a practice that we want in this country, even though it's fine in your culture? Issues, for example, of honour killings and clitoridectomy spring to mind, both of which are commonplace in certain Islamic cultures. It's not clear-cut, and the media are not doing us any favours by reducing the debate to its lowest level.

It would not surprise me if there were riots, but we've had them before many times in our history. Civil war is, I think, unlikely.



posted on Oct, 21 2006 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by rich23
I don't think it will come to civil war. There was a lot more overt racism around in the seventies... if you ever come across a sitcom called "Love Thy Neighbour" (which has not-so-mysteriously disappeared because of its blatant racist jokes) you'll know what I mean.


Good point
Despite the impression the media give, there's a lot less racial/religious tensions now than there was back in the 70s ....

What I see happening is that we're finally waking up to the fact that there's been too much discrimination going on - the case of the teacher with the veil being a case in point. To not sack her would have been discrimination. If someone refuses to dress in a manner suitable to their occupation then they are not able to do their job properly. Just as if I worked on a building site, wore open toed sandals and refused to put on a hard hat. But we've been so frightened of being accused of racism that until now we've let people get away we just these sort of ludicrous things. And thus we've been positively discriminating people. ie treating them differently, applying different values to them, when we should be treating all people the same.

Who knows, maybe this year we'll even be able to refer to Christmas without being ostracised?





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