AWOL Bag

DezertSkies,

Thank you for the encouragement. It's good to know that some "real men" still exist out there. Judging from your mention of canyons, it's pretty obvious you're not in Texas, but you'd get some respect here for grit alone. My hats off to you, however I had some questions as well:

1.) The long hair?

I grew my hair long once, for a few years on end, but there were two very big problems with it. One, it gives anyone you fight a fantastic handhold to grab. Two, it catches in things (like fans, branches, etc). You might want to cut your hair if it ever really comes down to survival. It doesn't have to be pretty, but short hair is a lot harder to grab hold of.


2.) The future?

I think I can safely say we'd all like to live with the sort of freedom you have to do your own thing and own nothing. I'm sure it helps that your family has their own land in the boonies as well. Worst case scenario, if there's never a Situation X, you could just live out your days there, if it's still there.

But what happens when youth is gone, the body starts to fail, and the years of abuse of your body turn it against you? Without medical insurance, without any money saved up, without a spouse to help take care of you, what will you do in your old age? I know you consider yourself to not be enslaved by anything, but you are actually enslaved now by your health. One wrong slip up on those slopes, smack into a tree, and you could be paralyzed for life. With none of the things I mentioned above, you'd probably be relagated to a state hospital. Without a wife or kids, there'd be few who would come to visit you, or remember you after you passed.

I know you feel that many of us are slaves to our materialistic things, or to society's acceptance, but in many ways I feel more free than you because I know that if my body does fail me one day, there are people and things to help me continue living a normal life. A solitary existance is fun and even sometimes neccessary in one's youth, but the older you get, the less appeal it has.

Still, it sounds like you've got some real grit in yer bones, and if Situation X happened tomorrow, I'd say you're probably one of the ones that would have the highest chance of survival. It just sounds like you've kind of gone too far in that direction, and are sacrificing your future for the now.

I may have missed this suggestion, nevertheless, one of the most important things to consider would be money....$$$.

Under many circumstances, unless there is a complete breakdown of society, money will be still be a necessary item to bring along. I am talking about cash money....I think you can forget about your checkbook but I would consider bringing along a credit card or ATM (just in case they might still be working).

If society does breakdown and regular currency is no longer even considered as a commodity of exchange, then some form of barter items might be considered. Gold might still retain some intrinsic value. Man has been attracted by this metal (and, of course silver) for as long as anyone can remember. It might be still considered valuable simply because it's shiny.

I would consider maintaining a supply of barter items; extra medications, good quality knives (you can never have too many knives), zippo lighters, flints and fuel.

It's human nature to be suspicious of strangers and the likelihood of anyone doing you a favor might be next to nothing. An offer of a good quality knife or a zippo lighter might make someone reconsider a simple request for water, shelter or food. If nothing else, some item might cement a friendship when used as a token to repay a simple kindness.

Remember, humans have traded for nearly as long as humans have been around. In a survival situation, expect people to return to a more primal state and this would include trade.

OK I'm gona piss off half of you.

Go to your bug out bag right now and ditch every piece of military gear you have.

OK the SHtF (Lets say a massive terror attack) and Bugout Bob heads out in his BDU's, ALICE pack, and odds are an AR or AK. What do you think will happen when a LEO, National Guard unit, or Paranoid Pete spots him? BANG BANG and Bugout Bob is pushing up the daisies.

Some more food for thought, most of you seem to be packing way too much crap... the idea is to have just enough crap to get your bigger crap.

For clothing get yourself some hiking clothing. Hiking clothes are light weight and quick drying (very important) and can often fold up into one of the pockets making a small package. You can easily fit 2 pairs of paints and 2 shirts into a ziplock freezer bag. (Try that with BDUs) You will also need some seasonal underwear (Coolmax, polypropylene etc.. those wonder fabrics really work), raingear, and cold weather gear for the winter.

Multitools - Not worth it really. How often would you use the pliers? Can come in handy if you need to fix a vehicle, but if you have a vehicle you can carry real tools. Victrorinox swiss army knives are good, you don't need or want the full boat versions, all you need is a knife blade, can opener, reamer and woodsaw (they really work, throw out those ring saws).

Tyvek sheets - This stuff makes great ground covers, shelters, tarps, etc.. and it weighs almost nothing.

Alcohol stove, and a aluminum camping mug - Do a google search for "pepsi can stove" (this wikipedia article is good) it burns isopropyl alcohol (HEET winter gas treatment) and can boil 2 cup of water in about 5 min using about 2 spoons worth of fuel. Add ramen and you have dinner.

Carry as much water as you can. A canteen and some water purification tablets are not going to cut it if there is a chance of chemicals contaminating the water (Katrina). I use a 2 liter bladder system and strap 2 2 liter pop bottles worth of water to my pack at the very least (one on either side) Note: you can also use the clear pop bottles to purify water of biological contaminants using the sun.

Maps! I can't believe it wasn't mentioned! (and of course the compass to go with it)

GPS system + 12 fresh alkaline batteries. Yes the gov can shut it down but as time goes by more and more of our infrastructure will rely on the system and they may be less wiling to do so. (keep some Nimh batteries + charger + smallish solar panel at your long term location.)

Rope - I buy some 1/2" rope with a braided cover, and strip the cover off and use it for rope. saves room and weight and will work for what you're likely to use it for.

Food - some ramen noodles and a jar of peanut butter. The noodles will fill you up, and put salt back into your system, and the peanutbutter will give you some protein and fat. (add a few spoons of peanutbutter to the ramen and tada your eating Thai.. well sorta )

Cug,
after reading your post.......... I'm glad that I have a bug out Bag thats not planned or packed by you.


No fire starting kit? no water purification kit? peanut butter and noodles??? No high energy bars?? no salt ?? no mil spec kit??? urghhhh in the words of my immortal WO2 on survival -

" Nice stove"

"Thanks Boss"

"Fetch" stove goes sailing over a 300 foot drop in the scottish highlands.

"Now, get out your fire steel, and make a f####### fire without your poncy kit...think that fuel cell's gonna last all year? nope, me niether, but theres plenty of bloody tinder in this forest. W#####" WO2 stalks off leaving me to make a fire.... But I did learn a valuable lesson that month..

Oh, and for my kit list here it is.

2 X parachute material wind smock. " Awesome windproof protection. A great insulator as an under garment, or a good wind proof over smock. wieghs in at 2 ounces.

3 x Swedish fire steel / magnesium block combo. 3000 ' C sparks light even wet kindling.

2 X Multi tool. Not going to use those pliers? guess your not thinking of fishing / Trapping then. Essential kit.

Knife. I have a CRKT Ryan 7 folder, which is razor sharp and has a great seerartion section for cutting ropes and lines. Fixed blade knife. Again a CRKT knife, but with fixed 6 inch blade. Ever tried to gut a large animal with a small blade? terrible experience for those who never have done!.

2 X space blankets. Multiple uses - great emergency shelters and re-heaters - also can be used as... ooh limited only by your own resourcefullness.

1 X Hand powered flash light. 30 seconds of squeezing generates enough power for 4 hours of continouse useage. Not bright, but great for soft gentle illumination of a well concealed shelter.

10 yards of Wire, 50 yards fishing line, hooks, floats. Yep I plan to eat fish and be merry.

Water purification kit and 4 X water straws. These water straws are good for 12,000 litres of water through them, and filter out all the crap and gunk you don't want to be ingesting. cheap as well.

Compass. Both button compass on my jacket at all times, and a good long term compass in my kit. How you gonna find saftey if you don't know which way your going??

2 X buddy shelters (max 4 people) Replaces the emergency survival bag, as 2 or more people can share it. Don't know what they are ? look around, as they are much much better than single person bags - they fit you and your kit in them - and a friend / spouse as well...

Now, for water proofs I have a British DPM smock with gortex drop liner. Cotton gaberdine outer makes it silent, Gortex liner makes it waterproof. Water proof trousers if they are your thing. I recommend them for long term situations where you can establish a safe haven and need good protection.

For fast moving escapes, ditch the trousers. your going to be generating enough heat to dry them off any how, and if it comes to that situation, lighter is faster.

Food. Salt, sugar, pepper, and energy bars. No pre cooked / pre packed crap, as its life is limited as well as its usage. A high energy bar will provide what you need for fast flight. The land will provide for a safe situation ie fish /deer / rabbits ect.

OK, last bit. Rabbits. You live on rabbits alone, you will be dead in 2 months from vitamin and mineral deficiencies. they are good for a stew along with other ingredients every now and again, but eat only rabbits and your a dead man walking.

Want to know how much all this wieghs in at?

19 pounds. That my friends is a light, fast tactical bug out bag for the masses.


Now, i've not touched on footwear or the like, because, if the ship hits the fan and you need to bug out fast, your going to be running in what your in at that very moment...

So choose wisely every day, carry a fire steel, button compass at all times, and think.... Yesterday it didn't happen, todays looking good so far, but what will tomorrrow bring??......

This Is something that everyone should do, but Americans have a "It won't
happen to me attitude" The vast majority of people that I know (99.9%) are
totally clueless as what to do in the event of some sort of emergency, be it
natural disaster, terrorists attack ect. I have carried my own "bag" since 1984
and it has served me and others well. I also have a gas mask. People thought it was so funny that I carry my bag... til 9/11. They don't think it is funny anymore,
and I am asked all the time about what items should be in one.

Some items that I think vital are the survival blankets, good flashlights with extra
batteries, waterproof matches, lite sticks, small am/fm radio, weather alert radio,
over the counter cold and pain medication, and definitely any prescription meds.
And the one item that is also important is a strong mental attitude, and the practical
knowledge of what to in the case of an emergency. More later

I didn't include a first aid kit because I thought that every one carries one any way ...?? you do don't you all??

If not...why not??

OK so add to my list my first aid kit...but i thought that would be a given.

Hey, I decided to show you what I consider the 4 most essential pieces of kit in my bag...





Knife, fire starting block and flint, non -battery powered torch, and my windproof 2 ounce parachute smock. The button compass is in the chest pocket.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght

No fire starting kit? no water purification kit? peanut butter and noodles??? No high energy bars?? no salt ?? no mil spec kit??? urghhhh in the words of my immortal WO2 on survival -

Err.. what part of "some food for thought" are you having problems understanding? Does that sound like a compleat kit to you? No it doesn't. Now if you take a chill pill, and think for a moment. The goal of a bug out bag is to get you to your stuff. Not a 6 month trip into the wilderness. I mean lets look over you questions.

"No fire starting kit?" - Do you somehow think that the stove lights itself? Or maybe you think a stove made out of pop cans has some sort of electric lighter?

"no water purification kit?" - Did I say that? I said it was foolish to rely on a canteen and pills. How about a big glass of flood water with some pills in it? apparently you think it's safe.

"peanut butter and noodles??? No high energy bars??" no salt ??" - Have you ever had ramen? they are about all salt. Are you gona tell me if you don't eat for a few days you will just keel over? Come on this ain't combat, it's about getting your butt from here to there in one piece.

"no mil spec kit???" - That crap is for overly macho posers.

"Now, get out your fire steel, and make a f####### fire without your poncy kit..

Well your poncy fire steel went over with my stove. Now make a fire yourself. You can make fire from sticks you know. The idea of the stove is to draw less attention to yourself. What do you think will draw more attention a fire or a small stove at night? (Of course you will need a fire if it's cold)

think that fuel cell's gonna last all year? nope, me niether, but theres plenty of bloody tinder in this forest. W#####"

Why would it need to last a year? Lets go to the very first post.

Originally posted by DeusEx
...bug-out bags are a sack filled with the essentials for a fews days...

Frankly I think it's a bit silly to pack for a year long trip to Everest just to hike a few days.

My kit will get me from anywhere I'm likely to be to home, and it will get me from home to my cache location. That's all it needs to do.

"My kit will get me from anywhere I'm likely to be to home"

You want to get to your home with a bug out bag.... right, straight away I see we are at cross purposes - my kit is for a quick, hasty to the hills and live well situation.

Yours is to get you home.

When the ship hits.. the last place you want to be is in your home.. yeah you might have the nice safe cosy feeling of being in your cosy home... but thats where they know you will be... Try finding me and my buddies in the wilds... rofl good luck.



My kit will keep me alive for months and longer. So, you can keep your kit, i'll keep mine, you stay in your home waiting to be collected and rounded up, and i'll be free under the stars.

Oh, and Drink pond water? yep been there done that - for weeks on end - right kit, your laughing.

Cug
You only piss off half of us because some of the information you give can cost somebody there life. We have a responsibility to pass on safe accurate information.

That being said there were a couple of good points in your post. I agree with not wearing the Military clothing. However if you are way in the back woods ware military is not likely to be seen, the military cloths are your best bet. They are built tuff and to last and can and will help to hide you. The alcohol stove IMO is a good one but mainly for base camp not bugging out, althow it is quicker and cleaner then a taking the time to start a fire, it crushes to easily. then in less you've packed a proper fire starting kit you are S.O.L. and that bottle of alcohol you packed is now only good for cuts.

The problem IMO is BOB's are personal. a lot depends on ware you plan on heading the part of the country you live in and how long your expecting the crisis to last. Being from A snow bound state I have taken the time to pack different BOB's for different seasons. I have small personal versions in each car witch I switch in the spring and fall. I keep a really small get me home bag in my locker at work, and my employer lets me keep my hand gun locked in a drew in the office only I and one other have the key. and yes I have a CWP. Sitting in my garage I have the deluxe get the whole family out alive ready for almost anything kit, ready to snap into my BOV and run. In my basement I have a hunker down kit as well as being stocked for at least three months of food and water.

As for you opinion on the MULTITOOL, its way off base IMO. When will you use the pliers you ask? Ever pulled a impacted tooth with you fingers. What about the knife blade files and saw in the handle, I guess no use for them either. One more quick use for the pliers. If you have really cold fingers the multitool is easier to grip then a small handled knife and can be used to skin a game animal. Pinch the hide roll the tool two or three times and start pulling down sharply. I've done it, it works great.

Well Maps and Compass are something I have in all my BOB's If you on the run there kinda time consuming to use if your not familiar with there use as most people aren't

I do recommend that people don't pack anything electrical. My logic on that issue can be discussed at www.belowtopsecret.com...'


[edit on 22-11-2006 by angryamerican]

As a result, I have a bug out bag AND a bug out tote. The tote consists of tent, mylar blankets, 2 plastic tarps, carabiners, hatchet, ring saw, water purification tablets AND filter pump, 4 days MREs for 4 people, med kit, 2 collapsable water bladders - 5 gallons each, leatherman multi-tool, hunting knife, pocket knife (Swiss - Tinkerer), 50 rounds shotgun ammo, 100 rounds .40S&W ammo (pistol), flint and steel, roll of twine, bundle of rope, handcrank radio, battery-less flashlight (The shake kind), Goretex rain suits, battery operated 2-way 3-meter radio (smaller than an mp3 player - about the size of a pager), extra change of clothing for everyone, roll heavy-duty aluminum foil, box 1 gallon ziplock freezer bags, Collapsable aluminum pot and pan, 2 collapsable aluminum cups, 2 small towels, 1 pair leather work gloves, and a few other things that I can't remember right now. All told it weighs in at 67 lbs! I keep this in my garage right next to my truck for easy access.

My bag (Which is actually a hiking backpack) consists of similar items. 1 man tube tent, 1 mylar blanket, Swiss army knife, goretex rain poncho, water purification tablets, iodine pills, small med kit, compass, flint and steel, 3 clips .40S&W (My pistol is hanging right next to the bag with my Shotgun) and 1 box of 25 shells, 1 change of clothes, a camel back water bladder, 2 days MRE for 1, aluminum carabiners, small battery-less flashlight (I bought a kit with a big one and a small one - big one is in tote), collapsable machete, nylon rope, and a few other things that I also cannot remember. The weight on this is about 26 lbs.

The idea is to have something to care for my family (the tote) and something for me to use to make day excursions from our safety site without having to compromise the safety of my family. Additionally, the backpack can be taken alone for absolute survival.

I am learning a great deal from some of the other posters on this thread - thank you for your suggestions and insight. I may change the make-up of these kits based on some of the ideas.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
2 X parachute material wind smock. " Awesome windproof protection. A great insulator as an under garment, or a good wind proof over smock. wieghs in at 2 ounces.

Tyvek sheets - free and just as light.

3 x Swedish fire steel / magnesium block combo. 3000 ' C sparks light even wet kindling.

Those went over the cliff with my stove. And what if you happen to be in the middle of a large urban area when the SHtF? Burning pallets behind a store, or chopping down the landscaping to make a fire is going to make you stand out. (Theves, looters, evil governments,bad guys of all types)

2 X Multi tool. Not going to use those pliers? guess your not thinking of fishing / Trapping then. Essential kit.

Nope.. I'll use the good stuff when I get to it.

Knife. I have a CRKT Ryan 7 folder, which is razor sharp and has a great seerartion section for cutting ropes and lines. Fixed blade knife. Again a CRKT knife, but with fixed 6 inch blade. Ever tried to gut a large animal with a small blade? terrible experience for those who never have done!

No reason to gut a large animal when you on foot headed somewhere.

2 X space blankets. Multiple uses - great emergency shelters and re-heaters - also can be used as... ooh limited only by your own resourcefullness.

Not a fan of those things. I have one /used one but I don't like them, better than nothing as far as warmth goes.

1 X Hand powered flash light. 30 seconds of squeezing generates enough power for 4 hours of continouse useage. Not bright, but great for soft gentle illumination of a well concealed shelter.

OK but too big, small led keychain light, (with extra battery in wallet) will work fine.

10 yards of Wire, 50 yards fishing line, hooks, floats. Yep I plan to eat fish and be merry.

Well while you foraging for food, I'll be moving... getting out of danger.

Water purification kit and 4 X water straws. These water straws are good for 12,000 litres of water through them, and filter out all the crap and gunk you don't want to be ingesting. cheap as well.

You think you will need 48,000 liters of water for say a week? You wouldnt happen to me a mermaid by chance? My 6 liters will get me where I need to be in most cases, otherwise out comes the pills.

Compass. Both button compass on my jacket at all times, and a good long term compass in my kit. How you gonna find saftey if you don't know which way your going??

In this case I use mil-spec. G.I. Lensatic

2 X buddy shelters (max 4 people) Replaces the emergency survival bag, as 2 or more people can share it. Don't know what they are ? look around, as they are much much better than single person bags - they fit you and your kit in them - and a friend / spouse as well...

Tyvek sheets again. remember this is a tempary situation.

For fast moving escapes, ditch the trousers. your going to be generating enough heat to dry them off any how, and if it comes to that situation, lighter is faster.

Don't count on that.

Food. Salt, sugar, pepper, and energy bars. No pre cooked / pre packed crap, as its life is limited as well as its usage. A high energy bar will provide what you need for fast flight. The land will provide for a safe situation ie fish /deer / rabbits ect.

You don't have time to forage. You have to keep moving to get to your main kit.

OK, last bit. Rabbits. You live on rabbits alone, you will be dead in 2 months from vitamin and mineral deficiencies. they are good for a stew along with other ingredients every now and again, but eat only rabbits and your a dead man walking.

If you moving past 2 months you don't even need a bugout bag.. you need your full kit.

19 pounds. That my friends is a light, fast tactical bug out bag for the masses.

Without water, my kit is about 5 lbs + 13 lbs water.

Now, i've not touched on footwear or the like, because, if the ship hits the fan and you need to bug out fast, your going to be running in what your in at that very moment...

I have footwear tied to my bags. When the SHtF I'm ditching my street shoes.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
"My kit will get me from anywhere I'm likely to be to home"

You want to get to your home with a bug out bag.... right, straight away I see we are at cross purposes - my kit is for a quick, hasty to the hills and live well situation.

Yours is to get you home.

Can you read? and it will get me from home to my cache location

Cache location = The place where the full kit is located. This thread is about a bug out bag! not your full kit.

When the ship hits.. the last place you want to be is in your home.. yeah you might have the nice safe cosy feeling of being in your cosy home... but thats where they know you will be... Try finding me and my buddies in the wilds... rofl good luck.

LOL have fun taking a deer with a pocket knife. My bugout bag will get me to "the good stuff".

My kit will keep me alive for months and longer. So, you can keep your kit, i'll keep mine, you stay in your home waiting to be collected and rounded up, and i'll be free under the stars.

Sigh. Why do you think I'll be in my home if the situation calls for it? You would look kinda stupid heading to the hill after a natural disaster.. I'm going to safety.

Oh, and Drink pond water? yep been there done that - for weeks on end - right kit, your laughing.

Flood water you know they stuff that about 10% gas, 10% chemical factory spillage 10% who know what. pills are not going to help!!!!

Originally posted by angryamerican
You only piss off half of us because some of the information you give can cost somebody there life. We have a responsibility to pass on safe accurate information.

UGH! nobody understands me. it's a bugout bag, not a running to the hills forever bag. And if you think people should be able to live for years out of a bugout bag you are one that could cause harm to someone.

A bugout bag get you to your stuff that it, it serves no other purpose. You can not and should not plan on living out of your bugout kit for months at a time You have to have your full kit for that. (One at home, one in that car, and at least one in a safe remote location.)

The alcohol stove IMO is a good one but mainly for base camp not bugging out, althow it is quicker and cleaner then a taking the time to start a fire, it crushes to easily.

Why does this freak so many out? I'll be eating before you have a fire going!

The problem IMO is BOB's are personal.

Very, all the folks packing a mag stick for fire are going be out of luck if they happen to be in a large metro area at the time. People need to remember survival is not for Armageddon natural disasters count too. if you live in the middle of LA it's gona take a few days to hike out to use your mad wilderness skills.

As for you opinion on the MULTITOOL, its way off base IMO. When will you use the pliers you ask? Ever pulled a impacted tooth with you fingers. What about the knife blade files and saw in the handle, I guess no use for them either. One more quick use for the pliers. If you have really cold fingers the multitool is easier to grip then a small handled knife and can be used to skin a game animal. Pinch the hide roll the tool two or three times and start pulling down sharply. I've done it, it works great.

Your not going to be taking game for a 3 day hike, it's a waist of time and energy, you have to get to your stuff. re tooth, it's just pain live with it for a few days. Like I said the swiss army knife will do for a bugout bag.

Well Maps and Compass are something I have in all my BOB's If you on the run there kinda time consuming to use if your not familiar with there use as most people aren't

If they can't read a map they are going to die in a survival situation, really if they cant bother to learn, how many are going to learn how to live without electricity, and the supermarket?

:: edit fixing quotes::

[edit on 11/22/2006 by Cug]

and it will get me from home to my cache location



lol.... those glasses are dark...sorry missed that point entirely.

ROFL.

Any how, im not trying to flame, just explain what I got going on for a long term (ish0 on the run situation..


Cache....now my man, you are talking my language!

Originally posted by thelibra
DezertSkies,

Thank you for the encouragement. It's good to know that some "real men" still exist out there. Judging from your mention of canyons, it's pretty obvious you're not in Texas, but you'd get some respect here for grit alone. My hats off to you, however I had some questions as well:

Depends on what part of Texas you're in. Palo Duro Canyon is huge. So are some the ones out in the mountains out West. Most of Texas isn't as flat as everyone from the eastern part of the state believe. They are some great bug out spots out in the along the Rio Grande and Pecos River. I prefer the Hill Country for its more frequent rain but lower humidity than Eastern Texas.

Water is the key to survival to anywhere you decide to go or decide to stick it out.

I prefer a mountain bike to a dirt bike. They're quieter and odorless. I can smell a dirt bike or quad for hours after they've passed off road or on a trail and can hear them for miles. These new electrical motor assisted mountain bikes seems like a worthy compromise. Especially with the new flexible solar cells.

I've known for some time that bleach can be used to treat water, but I never considered, before today, the possibility that it could replace iodine tablets in my BOB.

Food for thought.

The only disadvantage that I can think of, right off the bat, is having to leave the container open for a while to let the bleach evaporate. With tablets you can keep the container closed.

The way I've got it now, bleach is for the stockpile, and tablets are for the BOB, the logic being that if I'm on the move I don't want to be messing with bleach. Bleach is useful for a number of other things, especially in a camp situation, so I think it's worthwhile having some gallons stockpiled. I'm still pondering its usefullness on the move...

Someone mentioned activated charcoal, and I'm not so keen on that idea. It seems to me that you can kill organic adulterants with bleach/iodine, and you can filter radioactive particles with good old-fashioned readily-available dirt, so what's the use of having the charcoal around?

It does a good job of removing bad tastes, but if you need things to taste good in a survival situation, your priorities are all screwed up, IMO.

As far as the machete vs. hatchet debate, I think the hatchet is a clear winner. If you live in a jungle, the machete is superior, but how many of us live in a jungle? A machete is no better than a hatchet in a fight, in some ways it's worse (I've never met a machete than could split a tactical helmet like a coconut), so why bother with it?

Multi-tools are another interesting debate. Ideally, any 'survival' tool should be operable in the freezing rain, with one or more injuries, on a moonless night. I don't know about y'all, but I sometimes have problems finding and pulling out the particular tool I need under normal conditions. Still, they're so versatile, it's hard to say no for the weight. I take one along in place of a folding knife on the belt.

I do have a shovel in my BOB, a folding camp shovel with a serrated edge. It's damn useful, even for the weight, and it can save your knife a LOT of wear and tear.

About the cookware, I don't see any good reason to have a stove in the BOB. It should be in the cache with all your foods that require boiling/frying. There are plenty of perfectly good foods that require no fire, no water, and no down-time, things like peanut butter and beef jerky for protein, and energy bars/raisins/hard candy for carbs. The whole idea of a BOB, as I understand it, is to bug out, not to provide you with everything you need for setting up camp and living out the rest of your days in comfort.

The BOB should be sufficient to get you where you're going, that's all. The measure by which items are included, for me at least, goes like this.

1.) Does it help to get me where I'm going, quickly, and in one piece?
2.) Does the weight outshine the usefullness under probable scenarios?

The camp stove fails both tests, as far as I can tell, so it ought to be relegated to the trunk of your BOV, or a cache somewhere.

One last note, you should attempt to look as poor and pathetic as possible, to dissuade would-be bandits, an ugly bag that looks empty when full is better than a brand new shiny pack stuffed to bursting. A bag you can conceal under clothing is even better.

There were days, years ago, when I routinely carried several thousand in cash on my person, through bad neighborhoods at night, but I looked like a goddamned bum, and as a result, I was never a target. If I had been wearing a three-piece suit, accented with three hundred dollar sunglasses, I might have been waylaid by some doorway dwellers before reaching my destination.

If you're walking on a hilltop, it's wise to present as small a silhouette as possible. To my mind, the same rule applies in civilization - keep a low profile. This is doubly true after catastrophic event X, when people are not as bound by societal mores and the fear of punishment.

If you can look poor, diseased and crazy, while being wealthy, healthy, and mentally alert - you're in good shape.

Remember, the vast majority of people are not going to be prepared for event X, whatever it is. They're going to be robbing, looting, and killing for their survival. Not being one of them is only half the battle - you've survived the event, can you survive your fellow human beings?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne


If you can look poor, diseased and crazy, while being wealthy, healthy, and mentally alert - you're in good shape.

Good advice, wherever you are, don't be the gringo.

And as far as the bike, if it comes down to locking down the gas pumps and sealing off the roads, I'm off on foot. If it comes down to it even a MTB can slow you down. If you're travelling over rugged terrain looking to make time, it's more trouble than it's worth and will only slow you down trying to drag it throuhg brush, deep sand, or other non-bike friendly places because all the roads are shut down.

How many of ou have actually had to hike a few miles oftrail carrying a mountian bike? Try it without the pack first, then imagine you've got all your gear. For me it would just be extra crap to carry.

As for a stove, do you know what mine looks like?



It's so simple and reliable that i can't justify not carrying it, and i hate carrying useless crap. At midnight, i finally made camp, i was wet, it was cold, and i whipped ot the stove, fired it up, put a cup over it and had hot chocolate in about 5 minutes of stopping. You don't have to build a campfire to boil water, you could whip it out right at a water source and boil it, or make ramen on the fly without drawing much attention to yourself. I carry about 1 quart of fuel, it takes about 2 capfuls to boil a cup of water, so it goes a long way.

When i'm camped i cook over the fire, but if i'm on the move i can still boil water quick and easy.

For a pot i use a coffee can, store the stove inside it as well as a windguard that doubles as a potstand. You could carry just the stove and a metal cup and use your tentstakes to make a potstand, or just hold it over the flame if it's got a handle. This thing works surprisingly well. If you can boil water you can cook pretty much anything. Pack some instant oatmeal, hot chocolate packets, couscous, rice, or whatever your favorite compact dry goods are. Dry stuff packs small and light and a little bit of oatmeal can go a long way towards making you feel better if you're cold and hungry.

It'll run on just about any alcohol of tha least 70%, but some fuels cause soot. Best fuel i've found so far is "heet" brand gasoline antifreeze. Pretty much pure methanol, it burns completely clean and nearly invisbile with a hot flame. I've used it to boil water up to 10,000' altitudes and although it takes a minute or so longer, it'll still work. I haven't had a chance to try it above that by any significant amout, but i think it'll at least be able to melt snow above 15k, maybe even boil. If i happen to summit McKinley while i'm bugging out i'll try it though.

And don't think your camp stove is limited to use in the wilderness, it's innocuous and low key enough (if you aren't a gringo) to boil some water wherever you can find a place to squat, and most people wouldn't notice if you sat on a park bench and made some tea or summat.

The best survuival tool though is knowledge. When you lose your bag somehow and you're left with what's in your pockets, and what you're wearing, can you survive a 3 to 7 day stay where you're most likely to be hiding out?

Dry stuff packs small and light and a little bit of oatmeal can go a long way towards making you feel better if you're cold and hungry.

I have to agree with you on this point - regardless of my reasons for not packing a stove. The psychological benefits of hot food far outweight the physiological. There's something incredibly restorative about noodle soup or hot chocolate (the best water additive IMO) - it really makes you feel like everything is going to be alright.

Even when you've had a crap day, and you hurt, and you're cold and miserable, something as simple as a hot cup of soup can turn your whole perspective around and get you on your feet again, with a spring in your step.

People are quick to overlook the psychological aspects of survival - it's easily the most important factor, because no fancy toy can compare to the power of the human will. It sounds cheesy, but it's 100% true, in my experience. No amount of gear will get you on your feet, or help you put one more mile behind you before resting, or convince you that your situation isn't hopeless.

What you need most in a survival situation can't be bought in a store, you have to pay for it with your own suffering through experience.

That said, I think of the stove the same way I think of the flashlight. It's not strictly necessary, but it can have an enormous positive impact on your emotional state. So, you're absolutely right, and I shouldn't have overlooked that aspect in my earlier post. I don't pack one, but there is a perfectly good reason to do so.

(Edit to add: I bring along cigarettes for this purpose, and Smarties. )

The best survuival tool though is knowledge. When you lose your bag somehow and you're left with what's in your pockets, and what you're wearing, can you survive a 3 to 7 day stay where you're most likely to be hiding out?

Knowledge is very, very important (more important than gear, because it's a Hell of a lot harder to lose your knowledge, and it can't be stolen) but I believe Will is the most necessary. Knowing what to do is one thing, being able to do what is necessary is the cornerstone though. Without that, all the gear and knowledge and preparation in the world won't save you from the perils of fear, depression, and inaction.

Lemme just say, I've really enjoyed your posts on this thread. The thread in general has developed nicely, with the exception of one minor pissing contest we seem to be on track.



[edit on 26-11-2006 by WyrdeOne]

A nice hot meal or even a drink is wonderful for the psyche indeed... I'm all for it when your far out in the hills and its far from ideal conditions..


But the stove. Your fuels limited to a few days... so then it becomes another object to get rid of. Its just a point that i'm trying to get across, that if your dependant on the stove for your heat, and have no other skills or means to make a fire for yourself, then half of any long term survival battle is lost.... unless you can cache fuel or carry enough to last a longer period.. DezertSkies thats one nifty looking stove and I may have to go have a look at one !!

Yeah i may of engaged in one minor pissing battle, but i was trying to get across a point - The fact that having the knowledge to do so should the need arise is paramount.

As for the mountain bike, well, I wouldn't just for the fact that if it gets a puncture, or any other mechanical fault you cannot fix...then again it turns into another throw away item...

I know i'm looking at long term situations here, and many of you are looking at the short term, but I would rather be thinking about surviving for months than just getting out for a few days.



[edit on 26-11-2006 by D4rk Kn1ght]

True, the stove only lasts as long as the fuel, but 1 quart would last a week of boiling water several times daily. Since it costs nothing but 20 minutes of patience and less than an ounce, it's the only stove i'd carry. The bag supposed to be a short term bag anyways, and that's what this is, an easily disposable short term solution.