Iran's Threat to West Over Israel

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Damn right its wrong.
They have no right to be even moving 1 square mm off there 1948 land.
Thats what they were given, if the neighbors dont like you... you have to handle the issue and stand up for YOUR piece of land.
If you ever take theirs, they will do the exact same in return.




[edit on 20-10-2006 by Agit8dChop]

I don't agree at all in what you are saying. If a nation or nations declare, or through sneak attack, start a war they get what they get. The Palistinian's ought to take up their issues with Eqypt and Syria for losing.

People here at ATP act as if Iran is this mighty nation, they are not. Iran is like the punk kid down the street that only insults or talks tough from a safe distance. I say if you are (Iran/Syria) so tough back it up up front.
They won't because they can't and they know this. The tough talk is to keep the "working" man in these nations fighting a fight their own nations won't.
"Ali says strap a bomb to yourself, fight my fight and parradise awaits!" Pure rubbish.

Don't lose site, Iraq is not a war. It is a police action. In war you trample and control, the US hasn't fought a war since the end of 1945. Truely threaten the oil flow and see what happens. Btw Agit8d why don't you try living with any oil by products for about month, then come back and preach.

Originally posted by INc2006
simple and straight, israel kills palestinians en mass, might wanna go to palestine first and see wat israel actually does there, then come say that israel never practiced genocide, or colllective punishment....

So who is wrong, the guys with the big sticks or the cowards hiding amongst innocent people with the purpose to gain public opinion? Last time I looked Israel was provoked by suicide bombings and shoulder held missles. The collateral damage here was calculated by nations that are sponsorring but not fighting themselves. Same in Iraq.

Let's all calm down here.

There are few angels there, and much death and emnity.

There are some facts which ought to be kept in mind.

(1) Israeli Jews are not all originally from Europe. In fact the chief of their Air Force I think was born in Iran. At the end of WW2 there were something like 200,000+ Jews living in Baghdad [where they had lived for 2000+ years]. Many of them left Arab countries and Iran for Israel because of the tremendous hostility they faced at home. They don't insist on a 'right of a return'.

(2) After the end of WW1, Arab nations and then Israel gained independence from the Ottoman Empire. Many of the Arab states and Israel are newly created states in the 20th century, as is, of course Pakistan. Is it sensible to deny Pakistan's right to exist and have a Hindu takeover?

Originally posted by mbkennel
(1) Israeli Jews are not all originally from Europe. In fact the chief of their Air Force I think was born in Iran. At the end of WW2 there were something like 200,000+ Jews living in Baghdad [where they had lived for 2000+ years]. Many of them left Arab countries and Iran for Israel because of the tremendous hostility they faced at home. They don't insist on a 'right of a return'.

You are correct and the idea that they did live in those countries for all those years is proof that before the Zionists came to the ME and began murdering their bretheren they were living amongst the arabs no problems. It was when the Stern Gang/Hagganah began their terror programs to rid Palestine of the arabs is when the hostilities began. On top of that they were betrayed when herzl and co. at first said they had no intentions of setting up a homeland smack dab in the middle of all the arabs.

(2) After the end of WW1, Arab nations and then Israel gained independence from the Ottoman Empire. Many of the Arab states and Israel are newly created states in the 20th century, as is, of course Pakistan.

Again you are right, but you aren't mentioning that each of those countries also aided the allied nations in fighting off the ottomans and were promised these things, including the arabs of Palestine. It wasn't that they didn't exist. They didn't just make these names up or pick them out of a hat. The countries were assimilated under the empire and when they were free from that they reverted back to their proper names. Palestine, Lebanon , and Syria all existed before the ottomans conquered.

Israel has the right to exist, as does a Palestinian state. The dispute seems almost intractable however it must be resolved to prevent the Palestinian issue from sparking a wider regional conflict and to reduce the resentment against Israel by most Muslims. That said, over the years the leaders of some of Israels neighbours and now Iran have harboured genocidal anti-semitic views. Irans leaders are foolishly expressing these views publicly and in doing so are deliberately putting their own people at risk. The private plans of some of Israels neighbours in recent times may be one of the reasons behind Israels hard line stance since its inception.

If Isreal doesn't have a right to exist, neither does the United States of America according to some people's logic. The original 13 colonies illegally seceeded from British Rule and through the Revolutionary War took and WON the land we now have. Technically we didn't even win, the British walked away, leaving the land to us. What about all the Native American tribes that eventually disappeared because the Europeans took their land and waged war on them? What about the SouthWestern United States that was won through a technically pre-emptive strike in my opinion(there are two stories to this, the official story being that Mexico shot first, but alot of solid evidence points that the attack was staged).

The bottom line is that if a nation wins a war with another nation or state, they gain whatever spoils there was to gain, be it money, land, resources. They have a right to it because they won the conflicts, that's how it's always been. Now even though Isreal may be stealing land, they're fighting for it, and winning. So technically it's theirs because they are fighting for it and they are obviously winning it as they are getting larger. Imperialism is a horrible thing people, get used to it though, because it's something that has been around for a long time.

History is full of what is happening with Isreal and Palestine now, and history is also full of people who have debated if it is wrong or not. It's something we humans do, and not a single one of us can change that because what has happened in the past will continue to happen. History has a tendency to repeat itself it's human nature and not a single one of us can change that.

IMHO none of us are right because while there are still humans, there will always be these conflicts. We just have to live with it. Believe me when I say if I had the power to end all war, I would use it. War is not good, nor are the atrocities that humans commit.

Shattered OUT...

Man if that isn't a "generic" subject line I don't know what is.

BUT...

Iran has been both the "deal doer" and the thorn in the U.S.'s side for the past 20 odd years. Let's go back to the early 1960's, the Shaw is a good chap and knows how to do business. Everybody is happy happy happy... The Shaw is happy since his personal bank account is beyond accounting and the U.S Government is happy because we have some sort of stability in the ME and oil is like $10.00 a bbl.

It's freaking Disneyland!

The U.S. was free to go after those pesky Commies who were moving into S.E. Asia and show them a thing or two (mostly our latest weapons platforms), seeing as how the energy is flowing freely and it is REAL CHEAP!
Then all of a sudden the Shaw gets his ass thrown out of his palace!

WHAT HAPPENED?! Has anyone really thought about that? HOW does a guy with 100% total support in the technical, financial, weapons and diplomatic fields get THROWN DOWN?! By a bunch of PEASANTS??! With mini Toyota pick ups and small arms?! The Shaw had F-4s! He had tactical missiles!

hmmmmm....

There is MUCH that goes on behind the scenes, IMHO that we simply have no data on. I don't really consider ANY of what I read in the media about Iran legitimate at all. I lived next door to a WONDERFUL Iranian man in Simi Valley California for a few years, he told me stories, FIRST HAND experiences, of what was REALLY happening in Tehran during the "Hostage Crisis" and the ensuing Iran Contra CONSPIRACY that would leave most of the folks posting in this thread wondering WHO is REALLY pulling WHAT STRINGS...

The best I've been able to come up with is the "Iranian" (they are really PERSIANS) Leadership (ALL of them including the Shaw's replacements) have been in on the deal for a mighty long time, the only problem is I can't quite put my finger one what the DEAL is exactly. No matter which regime, religious or military group is grabbing the "headlines of fear" it always seems to be Iran is threatening someone JUST WHEN we need them to.

Even MORE bizarre, I think North Korea has recently joined this elite group of "evildoers". Think about it, a crazy looking and acting leader, a somewhat fear inducing military and here you go again...

Does the US need international foes and threats to get the rest of the first world to "play along"? I wonder...

Springer...

[edit on 10-21-2006 by Springer]

[edit on 10-21-2006 by Springer]

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one would think that 1:16 AM, east coast time
the ATS server could handle new post submissions
without the (in my case) exceedingly prevelent PAGE ERROR screen
eating up the reply post being submitted.

its all quite obnoxious

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anyways, this link www.interfax-religion.com...

....Iranian President....appeal to wipe Israel off the International map...

the above statement was said on 27 October 2005, @ 16:16

now a year later in October 2006
he's saying the same 'wipe Israel off the map' sabre rattling message