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Wisconsin Legislator Wants To Arm School Teachers

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posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 10:01 AM
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Wisconsin state Rep. Frank Lasee recently stated that he has plans to work against a federal law that bans guns on school grounds so he can introduce legislation in Wisconsin that would allow both teachers and principals to carry concealed weapons on school property. Lasse made the announcement after recent school shootings in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Colorado, claiming similar measures have been effective in Israel and Thailand .
 



www.star.niu.edu
The recent school shootings in Wisconsin, Colorado and Pennsylvania have caused many to rethink the safety measures taken in schools.

After the Oct. 1 shooting in Colorado, Rep. Frank Lasee (R-Wis.) announced he would attempt to work against a federal law banning guns on school grounds in order to introduce legislation allowing school personnel to carry weapons in schools. As part of the legislation, Lasee said he would require teachers to undergo training in the use of firearms.

Measures like these bring up the many sides of gun control and gun safety that play throughout society.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


In the accompanying story below (first link), we have another similar proposal where a professional gun safety instructor in Utah offered to train teachers in self defense while using guns at the recent Utah Education Association's conference in Salt Lake City last week. Needless to say the turnout for that class was not what was expected, less then 12 teachers actually turned out for the course.

Then we had the story last week that advocated training students to fight back against massacres,similiar proposal only without guns. (see ATS Related Links)

Is this what America has come too, is it all that necessary for teachers and principals to carry concealed weapons or is there even enough time for a teacher to respond given the way surprise attacks on schools have been carried out? I do not think so yet he does have a point, if it works in other countries why wouldn't it work in the U.S..?

Are you concerned over this proposal or do you have alternative suggestions as to how our school system could prevent further such shootings?


Related News Links:
deseretnews.com
www.upi.com
badgerherald.com
www.semissourian.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:

Schools Teaching Students to Fight Back Against School Massacres!

[edit on 10/17/2006 by shots]




posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 10:28 AM
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I heard him on FOXNews,

my theory, radical as what it may seem, how about strict sales on guns to those who are under 18? or take our approach (the British) and just ban guns? we did it straight after one school shooting and ended the problem.


CX

posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 10:39 AM
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I'm not sure that i agree with teachers being issued with weapons, but when you teach in a country that makes it so easy for kids to get hold of weapons and carry out these sort of attacks, i'm not suprised the topic has arisen.

If they are going to arm anyone i'd say it should be more along the lines of a security officer. Arming a teacher in my opinion could form a barrier when trying to build a rapor with the pupil, and what if the armed teacher was having a bad day with a difficult pupil?

It's not too farfetched to envisage, i could name a certain chemistry teacher who taught me who routinely assaulted kids who misbehaved. Holding thier hands over a bunsen burner was a favourite until his arm was broken by a pupil bigger than him! Imagine him on a bad day with a weapon!


So yeah, maybe someone along the lines of the marshals they have on planes would be a possibilty, but still a bit extreme for a school. That suggestion may seem laughable, but they have them on planes after just one plane incident (albeit a huge one) so why not at schools as there have been numerous school shootings?

Am i right in saying that 9/11 was the first time that a plane has been used as a weapon causing more deaths than just the number which are onboard? I think it is although i could be wrong on that.

My point is that theres a few hundred people on a plane and they stick sky marshals on them to protect the passengers and to minimise the risk of more deaths being caused. Well whats the potential possible death toll for a school shooting if the shooter has enough ammo? Hundreds....anything up to around a thousand in some schools. To me that is good reason to have at least someone on-site who can react quickly.

Too many kids have died through school shootings, again i'm not advocating arming teachers, but at least have something available.

Call them copycat shootings, crazes or just society getting more and more screwed up, it's happening so i don't blame them for considering this.

Knowing theres someone on the school grounds that may drop you the moment you hint at pulling a gun, might just be enough to deter you.

Then we get into the issue of whether it would be a challenge for some kids?

CX.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 12:00 PM
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Why school shootings? Simple, a target rich environment, no one to shoot back.

So, arm the teachers that want that responsibility.

Hasn't it been people other that school kids doing some of the violence?

Roper



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 12:06 PM
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I don't think you are going to do anything but make the problem worse by allowing teachers to carry weapons; most wouldn't want to and the rest you'd have to question their motives. I think armed security at schools is a good thing. My son's high school in Kansas City, KS has had armed roaming and patroling security since 1999 and they have never had a serious problem.

Giving guns to people without requiring strict background checks and firearms safety etc is just asking for trouble; you would just be trading students killing students to teachers killing students.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 12:15 PM
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What's to stop a group of young toughs from surprising the teacher before he/she has a chance to draw his weapon, beating him senseless, stealing his gun and going on a shooting rampage, targeting the teachers with weapons first, thus getting even more guns. Think it won't happen?

Giving teachers guns/ weapons, is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
They are more likely to shoot themselves accidentally or each other, rather than offer any kind of protection to the students in their charge.

I would rather see the students armed rather than teachers. Or better yet, hire some real security guards and not the burnt out old men that usually pass as security.

In my Opinion Rep. Frank Lasee is just looking for a hot button issue to try and revive his poll numbers.



[edit on 17-10-2006 by whaaa]



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 12:30 PM
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If you investigate you would find that these select teachers would be extensively trained in the use and safety of firearms. Plus I'm sure they will be screened and go thru quite a few pre-issue requirements.

I'm on the fence here although it has worked where it has been done in the past. I do believe it is a deterrent although many say that when kids want to "go out in a blaze" a teacher with a gun is no barrier. I disagree, mainly because the point is to shoot people before doing yourself. If you know there will be someone who could stop you with deadly force it would make you rethink doing it at all. If you can't carry out your massacre then what's the point?

Also, banning people from having guns only makes it easier for criminals who will get their guns illegally anyway.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 12:45 PM
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posted by infinite
how about strict sales on guns to those who are under 18?


State and federal laws already prohibit the sale of Shotguns, rifles to any one under the age of 18.

Sale of guns to Juveniles

Laws are already in place prohibiting the sale of other guns to anyone under the age of 21.



or take our approach (the British) and just ban guns? we did it straight after one school shooting and ended the problem.


That would take a constitutional amendment in order to take place and ratification more then likely would take 8 to ten years if not longer.

What about all those killed in the mean time?


[edit on 10/17/2006 by shots]



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 02:09 PM
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They should defenitely be given guns. So that is a student tries to come in and start shooting then the teachers can fight back, commando style.

Maybe the teachrs can sell the guns to the crazy kids and make some money.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 02:20 PM
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The thought of armed school teachers is much more frightening to me than on the off chance that some deranged wingnut might wreak havoc in a school.

If I had kids, I would rather home school them than have them go to a school with armed teachers.

I taught school for a short time until I found out how dysfunctional and out of touch most school teachers are. The Administration is off the scale too when it comes to dysfunctionality. A school principal with a pistol; now that's scary. Those power mad mooks would like nothing more than to go "pulp fiction" on you for a real or just imagined infraction.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by jbondo
If you investigate you would find that these select teachers would be extensively trained in the use and safety of firearms. Plus I'm sure they will be screened and go thru quite a few pre-issue requirements.

I'm on the fence here although it has worked where it has been done in the past. I do believe it is a deterrent although many say that when kids want to "go out in a blaze" a teacher with a gun is no barrier. I disagree, mainly because the point is to shoot people before doing yourself. If you know there will be someone who could stop you with deadly force it would make you rethink doing it at all. If you can't carry out your massacre then what's the point?

Also, banning people from having guns only makes it easier for criminals who will get their guns illegally anyway.


So now we are going to pay teachers firearms training and safety. Most teachers, thankfully, would not want to participate in a program that has them carrying firearms. I have several issues with this, there are several teachers I can think of who it would be pretty scary to think of them having a gun on them. Would they be required to keep this gun on them at all times? If not, imagine a gun in a purse or desk drawere ... students might know it is there and the teacher on the other side of classroom ... instead of being armed to protect against an attack they could be providing the weapon for the attack.

The training they would have to go through, both initially and ongoing would have to be pretty extensive. They would need to learn how to deal with an active shooter vs hostage situation. When to retreat for more protection and when to shoot or not shoot in a potentially crowded situation like a lunch room or hallways full of children with 1 or 2 armed suspects among them. They would need to go several times a year to a range and qualify with their handgun and the schools would be required to maintain liability insurance that would cover the school district in case of lawsuits.

I would feel better with metal detectors and armed at the school entrances rather than armed teachers. Nothing will prevent all of the shootings from occuring but some good deterrences in place might curtail some of the shootings.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
I would feel better with metal detectors and armed at the school entrances rather than armed teachers. Nothing will prevent all of the shootings from occuring but some good deterrences in place might curtail some of the shootings.


I agree I think metal detectors will do better, having teachers, Janitors and all the adult people in the schools have fire arms doesn't strike to me as safe anymore than a child with a gun when it comes to be trigger happy.

Is like fighting fire with wood.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 05:51 PM
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You can be extensivly trained with weapons but accidents still happen.
Teachers can have bad days and go beserk.
Teachers are foulable and could leave the weapon unsecured. Kids will gravitate from curiosity into looking for where teach hides the 9.
Shooting a gun under stress is alot different than from shooting one at a range. People do crazy things under stress even cops when they have firearms in their hands. Like fire a whole magazines woth of ammo into an assailent only to find every single shot missed unexpicably and from 10 feet away. Happen ALL the time. Where are those bullets gunna go, especially if they are 9MM rounds which you figure a female teacher might prefer, because the over penetrate.

Stupid bad idea. Sounds like the guy is just trying to create a hot button issue for re-election.



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